Xenon issue again

[phantomrock2]

hmmmm as I see some of are as hot as fish grease a-bout the Xenon showing up

however I would like to think that most of us playing X3FL are well-seasoned veterans and the way I have always dealt with Xenon:

1. in X3TC station several Osaka M2 at jumpgates outfitted with energy weapons but not M/AM weapons and that would keep Xenon out but I also know the hull for ships in TC are not the same as in AP so posting laser towers in TC will be ineffective being that the hull and shields are not as the same as in AP.

2. This will be VERY EFFECTIVE and here is what you do: Build laser tower complexes and it will be im-perative that it is done this way you must be OOS-out of sector to do this do not try it in-sector. OK! first you will make the laser towers then you will load them on a TS, TL or anything that can carry them you will then order the ship to MOVE TO POSITION but you must be out-of-sector move the ship to the position where you want the laser towers to be I for one thing I order the LTs to be dropped by a jump-gate or where ever enemies will show up and drop the laser towers. Now turn on SETA and let the LTs shield up now after the LTs have powered up jump in-to the sector or where ever it will be and you will notice that the laser towers are splayed over the area where the LTs where dropped!!!!!!!! the joy a-bout this is that you can have as many LTs that your heart so desires-UNLIMITED. I have had many missions (in AP) Segaris, Menalaus's Paradise and other sectors where I have hovered nearby and enjoyed the fireworks and light-shows However what is so beautiful in X3FL is I see a lot of things that were eluded to in TC and AP such as orbital lasers, internal sentry lasers, and other things that were very unobtainable So if you want to be out of sector and have other massive ships patrol laser-towers will soften up targets and even obliterate them. Trust me this really works. Now move out get your laser towers up

[Midnightknight]

Can you post a savegame, please?

Sorry but i left the game without saving, so i don't have it anymore was a bit fed up with the constant I and K harassment.

The Dynamic Xenon Jobs will have a rebalance in next update. Where the first ranks wont see much activity and only start cranking them up at higher ranks. In addition to some changes to spawn time and some script changes that Cycrow can explain if he wants to.

MFG

Ketraar

Alright good to know.

Don't get me wrong, I very much like the idea of invasions, but as it is now it's bland and annoying.

I'd wish that too, have a huge invasion going out of the sectors from time to time, and having the races try to fight back to make some activity. But having an I jump randomly in sectors where there aren't even a jump gate is really cheap and a punishment for nothing. I left the game cause the I jumped in a sector quite far from a Xenon sector (6 jump away) in a teladi core sector and the time i get warned it was there i lost 2 miners and a trader. Come on ... This is just plain annoying. The game is already so slow, the economy is almost at a stop, when you want to have something you need to build the factory yourself cause almost every ware are "rare", having them jump like this to destroy everything it so gratuitous and uninteresting :/ It's not challenging, it's just annoying making you put M2+ in every sector just in case, turning X3 in a tower defense more than in a game "Explore, build, fight."
I really want this simply turned off as except spamming towers in your systems i stiull don't see what it brings to the game.

On the other hand, like someone said in this thread having some sort of dynamic plot or mission telling you a xenon force is building or spotted somewhere and need to be dealt with would be something really interesting. Having the player actually prepare itself to fight and have an epic battle from time to time. But not a constant boring spam that looks more like some farm than anything epic.

[Cycrow]

do you have an example of an I jumping without a jumpgate ?

that shouldn't happen, the Xenon ships should always jump to a jumpgate, or a jump beacon if it allows everyone

[Ketraar]

On the other hand, like someone said in this thread having some sort of dynamic plot or mission telling you a xenon force is building or spotted somewhere and need to be dealt with would be something really interesting. Having the player actually prepare itself to fight and have an epic battle from time to time. But not a constant boring spam that looks more like some farm than anything epic.

Why would the xenon allow you to prepare? Also why would it be player centric? These Dynamic Jobs were asked to add more things to do later in the game when player have huge fleets and could basically wipe most races of the face of the galaxy. We are making some adjustments but the universe should not care about you, instead there should be things forcing you to adjust. Why would you want a universe that runs smoothly, isn't and bit of chaos the spice have stuff to do?

MFG

Ketraar

[ubuntufreakdragon]

I want to add that these Xenon are able to jump to TOA's which doesn't make sense.

Sooo far I've started to detect them, anger them and drag them 3000km away from the sector centre, to stop their respawn.

[Midnightknight]

On the other hand, like someone said in this thread having some sort of dynamic plot or mission telling you a xenon force is building or spotted somewhere and need to be dealt with would be something really interesting. Having the player actually prepare itself to fight and have an epic battle from time to time. But not a constant boring spam that looks more like some farm than anything epic.

Why would the xenon allow you to prepare? Also why would it be player centric? These Dynamic Jobs were asked to add more things to do later in the game when player have huge fleets and could basically wipe most races of the face of the galaxy. We are making some adjustments but the universe should not care about you, instead there should be things forcing you to adjust. Why would you want a universe that runs smoothly, isn't and bit of chaos the spice have stuff to do?

MFG

Ketraar

Ok, so why do the xenon threat rise with the player notoriety? Isn't that player-centric to look what fighting rank you have to send what kind of ship? I don't like how player centric it is currently, cause it is player centric, the whole game is player centric. I'm playing around PTNI HQ, everything rely on the player. Races destroys each other traders and you can't buy a single shield or weapon 10 sectors around cause everything is at waste. You need to build every factories, even Nostrop oil or nothing is produced. Races can't deal with Qs and Ks spamming while they are supposed to be 20 times stronger than i am currently (Only 2 M7 and 2 M6, not really a strength to fear) and have to clean the mess all around to have the economy survive a bit. (And that makes my fighting rank skyrocket while i actually simply want to trade and build an economy)

Why Xenon should warn the player, that's true on paper, they shouldn't, but it's not making things really fun so far. Like i said except massing ships in every sector to kill eventual Xenon spawn, you can't do much about it, and wait passively for your belongings to be destroyed, if you don't want to stop all by yourself. It the opposite of "playing". So you replace again and again your loses (micromanagement) or jump with your poor M7 (killing another K or I that don't make much resistance when IC), to deal for the 100th time with the annoying random jump.
So why Xenon should warn exactly to do what you are talking about. Make a real threat and something interesting for the player to use huge fleets. Having a I jumping in PTNI HQ Alpha won't make the player use it's awesome fleet, no, he will jump with his player ship dispatch the threat and voila.

I mean, when in X3 game did you used a huge fleet at all? When it was epic and i have a few example, like in operation final furry! Or when you decided to wipe a Xenon core sector, in AP when the war against argon/terran was raging in some border sector and you had valhallas involved, when there is an actual threat, not when you are spammed by a few Yaki fighters or a lone destroyer.
To me this do not achieve any of this, but a huge fleet massing itself in the border of a Xenon sector, being spotted by the scouts or satellites of other races using gallnet (that is underused in all X3 games) to warn about it and ask for player and races to prepare for the invasion, yes, this would make the use of a great fleet of some use, and this would be (to my opinion) interesting, giving a little delay to the player to stop what he is doing like pick up this discovery 300km away from the center of a sector that he was looking for an hour ...

Hope i wasn't too rough if i was i'm sorry, was simply a bit annoyed and nothing against you guys. Simply wanted to explain my point of view and why this is no fun. And no i don't want it to be easy, i like difficulty, but this is to my point of view not difficult, it's simply repetitive and boring. They jump in kill a trader, need to replace, and restart again and again and again, like a murder with a spoon. Also it make the game really unbalanced, you want to not have issues and play an "easy game" go in Argon core sectors and do not use the hub, no Xenons will bother you at all. Once again, it looks like it missed it's target, removing to the game while not adding anything.

[RunGiantBoom]

Also, its kinda wierd when 3-4 Xenon k hunt in sector for ships, but do not touch stations.

If we are talking about invasion, it would be logical that Xenons will exterminate everything sector by sector. Now its kinda fun to see several bigships try to catch fast cv ships.

[Utsuho Reiuji]

Also, its kinda wierd when 3-4 Xenon k hunt in sector for ships, but do not touch stations.

If we are talking about invasion, it would be logical that Xenons will exterminate everything sector by sector. Now its kinda fun to see several bigships try to catch fast cv ships.

I am not sure about this, I have witnessed Xenons also going for stations. But once they do, they trigger the rapid response forces to come. I forgot which faction it was, but I saw a Q trying to take out some smaller factory that was close to a gate.

[birdtable]

Finally made it through an enforced aggressive Argon embargo to the Goner Temple, the Duke will suffer a chilled relationship as he is no longer needed. Regretfully the Argon have not been impressed by my access to Goner wheat and jumpdrives and have kept a military force there. One of my traders was viciously set upon in that sector so I had to jump in and remove the disgruntled aggressors (luckily only M6's and a few fighters) but regretfully to the annoyance of the Goners. I have despatched a diplomat to smooth the waters so I continue my trading. Thoroughly enjoyed the whole experience and not a spawned Xenon in sight..... Gaming does not get better than this.

[Snafu_X3]

Hehehe!

[ubuntufreakdragon]

How about requiring the Xenon to first scout and place a one time JB to jump in Combat ships.

[Ketraar]

That would make Xenon strategic and think like Humanoids. Xenon are not supposed to make sense, they are a threat because of their programming (lots of lore reasons as to why and why not).

As I said before, rebalance is on the way.

Ok, so why do the xenon threat rise with the player notoriety?

Because people want to have a idle time to prepare. This is though a very minor tie in to balance the amount, everything else is random and not player centric at all.

MFG

Ketraar

[RunGiantBoom]

That would make Xenon strategic and think like Humanoids. Xenon are not supposed to make sense, they are a threat because of their programming (lots of lore reasons as to why and why not).

Logic that Xenon attack up to 10 jumps away from sectors 101 and 472, is fine for lore reasons? If so, may be will be better to say to player about this feature, instead of reducing xenon threadness. Like war sectors in AP. Or introduce danger levels in sector description.

[Midnightknight]

That would make Xenon strategic and think like Humanoids. Xenon are not supposed to make sense, they are a threat because of their programming (lots of lore reasons as to why and why not).

Aren't Xenon "Evolved" teraformers? So they can evolve, they can improve their programs and how they works, be it on their own or a faulty replication like in the lore. The simple facts they makes new different and bigger ships show they actually adapts.

[RunGiantBoom]

So, to understand where is safe space i tried to make map
Spoiler just in case.

Spoiler

Show

Almost all map is danger zone

[Ketraar]

Almost all map is danger zone

POTENTIAL danger zone would be more accurate, but yes that was the idea.

MFG

Ketraar

[Midnightknight]

Almost all map is danger zone

Oh Getsu Fune is not in dangerous area! Let's put my PHQ there!! *coughs*

[Hwitvlf]

To me, the Xenon (v1.1) are not over powered; you just can't use the same strategies that worked in AP. I tried to do the AP method of setting up the HQ in an unowned sector. A Q jumped in behind my Mammoth and destroyed it almost instantly. I set it up in Rolks Legacy instead (near the Jump Beacon) and have only seen a single P there since. Xenon jump into sectors and blow stuff up...they're evil robots...that's their job. If your ships are alone in a sector, that's what they target. In high-traffic sectors, the odds of them targeting one of your ships is pretty low.

Having jump drives with emergency jump enabled is now a necessity. Xenon enter through a gate so you can set up point defenses. Laser Towers make good early warning systems even if you don't have enough to destroy a K. Quite a few M6 ships support Tornado and Typhoon missiles which can take down any capital ship even in early game...you have a cargo bay hacker, hmmm... Fighter drones give freighters enough time to jump away.

[Midnightknight]

To me, the Xenon (v1.1) are not over powered; you just can't use the same strategies that worked in AP. I tried to do the AP method of setting up the HQ in an unowned sector. A Q jumped in behind my Mammoth and destroyed it almost instantly. I set it up in Rolks Legacy instead (near the Jump Beacon) and have only seen a single P there since. Xenon jump into sectors and blow stuff up...they're evil robots...that's their job. If your ships are alone in a sector, that's what they target. In high-traffic sectors, the odds of them targeting one of your ships is pretty low.

Having jump drives with emergency jump enabled is now a necessity. Xenon enter through a gate so you can set up point defenses. Laser Towers make good early warning systems even if you don't have enough to destroy a K. Quite a few M6 ships support Tornado and Typhoon missiles which can take down any capital ship even in early game...you have a cargo bay hacker, hmmm... Fighter drones give freighters enough time to jump away.

i strongly disagree. An I vaporize anything before it could jump, and if it could, it's hull is severely damaged (My Mules couldn't doo it and they are armored transporters. The Athena survived with less than 20% hull so it's millions of repairs if it does survive, i guess it may vary a lot.), laser towers are not of any help either or you need to put tons of them on any door as a single laser tower can't deal with a single M now OOS, what is a shame, and they are a rare loot. At least in my game the only i can get are those i produce and production is really slow even with an upgraded factory. They aren't produced fast enough to replace the looses.

I love when people tells you "it's easy" when they apparently play a modified game or they did not played enough to see the issue shows up really. When you will have I spawning out of gates in your sectors with interval shorter than 10 minutes we will talk about how "easy" it is to deal with this. I had Q i had K and it was annoying but it was possible to deal with them. I are all another problem. Yes you can deal with them, yes you can jump and kill them with a Shirke. But if you do this, the second you jump IS they release a missile barrage that will kill all your other ships in the sector. And attacking them with a big fat and slow M2 is not the smartest to do (If you could get one so far) cause he have more PPC or PSG than a full fleet of your M7. That simply add so much micromanagement that it just prevent you from doing anything else in the game, you just have to sit there and wait for the eventual spawn to dispatch it before it makes you loose hours of play, how fun.

I'm grateful so far egosoft never made a Xenon M8, so at least we avoid most of the missile spamming in every sector at least and makes it even less fun.



PS: I also noticed they pop in Cho's defeat at the west gate ... That do not exists. Just have them pop on the map away from any door and start to attack traders there.

[RunGiantBoom]

i strongly disagree. An I vaporize anything before it could jump, and if it could, it's hull is severely damaged (My Mules couldn't doo it and they are armored transporters. The Athena survived with less than 20% hull so it's millions of repairs if it does survive, i guess it may vary a lot.), laser towers are not of any help either or you need to put tons of them on any door as a single laser tower can't deal with a single M now OOS, what is a shame, and they are a rare loot. At least in my game the only i can get are those i produce and production is really slow even with an upgraded factory. They aren't produced fast enough to replace the looses.

TS protection is a bit of a problem. I am using mistrals because of 150m/s speed. Not lots of cargo, but they are rarely dying.
I have idea to use Mule armored ts with rebuild in HQ. It may be good if fresh ts will have all necessary upgrades in one place.

For sector defense, M2 with command "Defend position" established on gates is working fine. All xenons are killed in doorstep. Also its good to have M7D with repair drones and command "Repair all ships in sector"