Will there be done something about DeVries Economy?

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Which of the mentioned changes should be implemented?

fix expansion; expand expansion; do the production thing; add new resources
16
40%
fix expansion; expand expansion; do the production thing
8
20%
fix expansion; expand expansion; add new resources
1
3%
fix expansion; do the production thing; add new resources
0
No votes
fix expansion; expand expansion
2
5%
fix expansion; do the production thing
1
3%
fix expansion; add new resources
1
3%
only fix the expansion
2
5%
I don't care
4
10%
I don't want this
5
13%
 
Total votes: 40

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ubuntufreakdragon
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Will there be done something about DeVries Economy?

Post by ubuntufreakdragon » Thu, 23. Jul 15, 22:18

In a Freeplay Game, DeVries is totally deserted.
In a Plot game the situation as a bit better, as the AI starts to build some stations, through still bad, the main problem here is that the NPC CV's can be destroyed and won't be replaced.

Existing problems:
No expansion in free game.
expansion CV's wont be replaced (3.6.0 fix doesn't work), in older Saves where the CV was destroyed before 3.6.0 beta 3.
expansion is to weak, there aren't enough sinks for a player economy, as the new shipyard wont be expanded enough.
Habitats stop consuming foodrations, because their storage becomes overfilled, because food is also their product.
DeVries doesn't have a production for spices.
The Shipyard is pretty useless without a player economy.
PMC Overwatch blocks essential resources while existing.

My Recommendations:
1. Fix the expansion:
CV's should be replaced if destroyed.(mostly redundant since 3.6.0 beta 3, however older Saves aren't fixed)
Expansion should be present in a freegame, too, once the player build his first factory in DeVries.
2. Expand the expansion:
If the player builds additional stations, the current expansion NPC stations should be expanded with additional modules.
3. Fix existing productions:
Spices as secondary resources for the cristal place.
A unique silicon wafers production for the plot station being a bit less productive than standard but only requiring raw crystals instead of cut crystals, as these aren't available in DeVries.
Habitats should produce something else, my recommendation:
Habitatsproduce small amounts of building materials e.g. 5RMP/hour and have refined metals and silicon wafers with a +400% bonus as secondary resources, primary resources should remain unchanged.
Lore-explaination: There is realy much scrap in DeVries which could be recycled and there are many inhabitant on the habitats without anything to do, @400%bonus you can repair things much better if you have some spare parts.
By the Way this would integrate the Plotstation much better into DeVries, without producing too much and disturbing the balancing, and it would makes building ships and stations(including the plot station) much easier.
4. Add additional resources:
Add hydrogen ion and plasma to glaring Truth, @Lore: hydrogen ion and plasma should be present in the corona of the sun.
Add Crystals to Molten Archon
As DeVries is meant as some sort of fortress against PMC it's bad design to let it's economy fail only because PMC established a bridgehead in bleak Pebble and blocks it's Jump Beacon.
Last edited by ubuntufreakdragon on Fri, 1. Apr 16, 15:52, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Will there be done something about DeVries Economy?

Post by w.evans » Thu, 23. Jul 15, 23:10

ubuntufreakdragon wrote:CV's should be replaced if destroyed.
This was mentioned fixed in 3.60 Beta 3. Wasn't it fixed?
ubuntufreakdragon wrote:Expansion should be present in a freegame, too, once the player build his first factory in DeVries.
Yes
ubuntufreakdragon wrote:2. Expand the expansion:
If the player builds additional stations, the current expansion NPC stations should be expanded with additional modules.
Oh hell, yes, please.
ubuntufreakdragon wrote:3. Fix existing productions:
Spices as secondary resources for the cristal place.
A unique silicon wafers production for the plot station being a bit less productive than standard but only requiring raw crystals instead of cut crystals, as these aren't available in DeVries.
Habitats should produce something else, my recommendation:
Habitatsproduce small amounts of building materials e.g. 5RMP/hour and have refined metals and silicon wafers with a +400% bonus as secondary resources, primary resources should remain unchanged.
Lore-explaination: There is realy much scrap in DeVries which could be recycled and there are many inhabitant on the habitats without anything to do, @400%bonus you cant repair things much better if you have some spare parts.
By the Way this would integrate the Plotstation much better into DeVries, without producing too much and disturbing the balancing, and it would makes building ships and stations(including the plot station) much easier.
Yes, yes, yes, and yes. I find that last particularly well thought-out.
ubuntufreakdragon wrote:4. Add additional resources:
Add hydrogen ion and plasma to glaring Truth, @Lore: hydrogen ion and plasma should be present in the corona of the sun.
Add Crystals to Molten Archon
As DeVries is meant as some sort of fortress against PMC it's bad design to let it's economy fail only because PMC established a bridgehead in bleak Pebble and blocks it's Jump Beacon.
This last, not so much. I think it makes sense that DeVries is resource starved, both from a lore perspective, and from a gameplay perspective. Used to be an expansive mining colony, and the lack of resources could be attributed to it being simply tapped out, and also explains the dilapidated state of their stations. Gameplay:
SpoilerShow
gives the player a reason to trade/raid/plunder out of DeVries, particularly in the plot.

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Re: Will there be done something about DeVries Economy?

Post by ubuntufreakdragon » Thu, 23. Jul 15, 23:25

w.evans wrote:
ubuntufreakdragon wrote:CV's should be replaced if destroyed.
This was mentioned fixed in 3.60 Beta 3. Wasn't it fixed?
Oh I've overlooked it :oops:
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Post by Nikola515 » Thu, 23. Jul 15, 23:36

Unfortunately no.... I had simular topic last year and acording to devs it is just a hell hole.... Personally i think that sector is still unfinished do to no connection between plot and actually gameplay. DV needs refined metals bad (acording to plot but nobody actually need them in game :cry: So i think DV is abandoned and it wont see much attention by devs....
It's not world hunger because we can't feed poor,it's because there will never be enough to feed the rich .....

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Re: Will there be done something about DeVries Economy?

Post by Sparky Sparkycorp » Fri, 24. Jul 15, 01:25

ubuntufreakdragon wrote:
w.evans wrote:
ubuntufreakdragon wrote:CV's should be replaced if destroyed.
This was mentioned fixed in 3.60 Beta 3. Wasn't it fixed?
Oh I've overlooked it :oops:
You may both be half correct depending on the exact meaning of the fix (sorry if I have misunderstood either of you). One possible interpretation would be that replacement CVs are only ordered if the station is built to some extent. If the CV never reaches the build location, the fix may not apply.
CBJ wrote: • Beta 3 Fixed NPC built stations in the plot from sometimes never being completed by allowing a new builder ship to be ordered.
Edit: Nice suggestions. I am not sure where I stand on DV not having all basic resources. Whilst it remains impossible to impose the station-setting-based control over whether miners leave a sector or not (IIRC), I agree with adjusting Bleak Pebble plasma and/or jump beacon locations.

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Post by w.evans » Fri, 24. Jul 15, 01:34

Thought I read a thread about it. Looked for it again, and you're right, Sparks, could mean that CVs are replaced only if station building has already begun.

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"Too late for Devries" ?

Post by Gligli » Fri, 24. Jul 15, 11:01

I feel like the plot have been cut out here. There is a gap between "We need food and metal plates" and the construction of the URV station.
If it is, they probably cut something important for the plot to make Devries alive...

Facts are that as a newcomer, I escaped Devries when I saw that I probably miss something out there... and just didn't take enough time to think about it.
Though I'm not sure... The CV bug can change a lot of things, for ex...
SpoilerShow
the DV-OL gate somehow invalidates the presence of PMC next to DV-AL gate
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Post by ezra-r » Fri, 24. Jul 15, 17:02

Devris AI traders must be fixed.

It makes no sense that you set up shop there and they don't even trade with juicy deals you offer. For example, a station next to their shipyard offering very cheap something the shipyard wants.

Just to reflect some kind of common sense.

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Post by Sparky Sparkycorp » Fri, 24. Jul 15, 17:46

Theoretically, if you are selling something that a shipyard in the same zone wants and at a price lower than what it is offering in the Trade Window, the trade should also be able to occur via drones rather than just AI traders. If both stations have cargolifters available and trading doesn't seem to be occurring anyway, it would be worth a bug report.

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Post by UniTrader » Fri, 24. Jul 15, 17:55

note that this zone trading is very difficult to notice, even when you know it happens. currently writing a Manager Script and as temp measure copied the vanilla manager script and added some debug notes, so i knew from the debuglog some Trading with Energy Cells was happening, but i couldnt locate any of the Cargo Drones even though i searched for them.. probably because the amount was small - should have been about 5 drones in a busy masstraffic network, so its like looking for a needle in a haystack..
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Post by ubuntufreakdragon » Fri, 24. Jul 15, 18:04

ezra-r wrote:Devris AI traders must be fixed.

It makes no sense that you set up shop there and they don't even trade with juicy deals you offer. For example, a station next to their shipyard offering very cheap something the shipyard wants.

Just to reflect some kind of common sense.
beta patch log wrote:RC 1 Fixed station-owned ships ignoring non-player-owned stations when attempting to sell off products or leftover cargo from their homebase.
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Post by ubuntufreakdragon » Sat, 25. Jul 15, 15:46

• Beta 3 Fixed NPC built stations in the plot from sometimes never being completed by allowing a new builder ship to be ordered.
can someone check this out, it doesn't seam to work for me
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Post by w.evans » Sat, 25. Jul 15, 15:51

I have several stations in DeVries successfully built by the Canterans. No idea if it's all of them, though, and I haven't seen any Canteran CVs destroyed to verify that they're being replaced. Then again, I have DeVries heavily patrolled in my game.

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Post by Gligli » Sat, 25. Jul 15, 22:41

I couldn't put a hand on it, but some were requesting "destroyed CV replacement in DV" in others topics... if that can help you.
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Post by SyberSmoke » Sun, 26. Jul 15, 08:33

As many may know, in X3:AP and TC there was a manager running in the background to offer build missions (place a station) and to have NPC's replace lost stations over time. But it looks like, because of the indestructible nature of the stations, that bit of software was not needed.

This of coarse limits how much can be done as the system can not offer "Please start building us this" missions. Sadly this messes up NPC's rebuilding DeVries on their own outside of scripted events like those in the plot. Combine that with the very limited inter system trading (I think I have seen two or three ships all with unique names) DeVries is just a playground for the player to spend time.

But I do agree that the plot just feels like things are missing. There are holes that SCREAM to be filled. This may be me, but it is just very choppy and there are bits that act like a segue to something else, but are abruptly handed off and left in the dust.

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