[MOD] Complex Cleaner v4.09 / Modular Complexes (TC 3.2 / AP 1.1)

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glenmcd
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Post by glenmcd »

Brian5001 wrote:actually, I'm kind of curious about what would happen if I merely changed the formula to one that merely adds the values of all ore/silicon/ice qualities, and have the production timer/amount produced, reflected in the outcome...

I'm going to mess with this and test the results to see if these assumptions are accurate. I believe that the mine outputs (time/amt) are directly related to the quality, and that if the quality's of multiple mines are simply added together, they would give the same overall output levels as the mines would achieve separately.
Although I consider this better than what we have now, it solves one problem and brings in another. When you first get a complex going (I usually give it a TS load of crystals), it takes a finite amount of time before various FACTs have sufficient resources to get a production cycle started. For example in a very large complex, I might have between 8 and 12 XL SPPs. If these are all combined into one, I'm going to need maybe 4 MSF loads of crystals in order to produce any ECs at all. If I have a combo of 1x, 3x and 5x, the 1x will start first and this should be enough to start producing base food. The idea is to supply enough crystals so that by the time the SPPs have run out of crystals, the various other FACTs that feed resources to the smallest crystal fab will result in a crystal producing cycle.

This isn't exclusive to mines either. Sometimes I'll choose 2 or 3 M fabs as well as X number of Ls, instead of all L size, so that when they all get crunched I'm not left with one massive FACT. A massive one is fine if there's also a small one. The comparitive sizes aren't critical but the smallness of the smaller one is.
Brian5001
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Post by Brian5001 »

Then the solution could be as simple as combining this mod with the Advanced Complex Hub mod, which allows you to dock large ships to the compressed modules. (then it would only take a single trip, if you already have a running factory that overproduces EC)
glenmcd
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Post by glenmcd »

Brian5001 wrote:Then the solution could be as simple as combining this mod with the Advanced Complex Hub mod, which allows you to dock large ships to the compressed modules. (then it would only take a single trip, if you already have a running factory that overproduces EC)
The Advanced Complex Hub is an excellent mod and is one that I use whenever I'm not running vanilla. But if you go this way then CC is getting further and further from something that solves a specific problem and has little impact on others. The rounding effect complaints/suggestions/argument has been going on for some time. For all I know we actually have the best set of compromises now when you consider the needs of the majority. I'll tell you how I cope with the mineral rounding effect in CC and maybe it will suit you until such time that CC is CC without the mineral rounding:

I nearly always put a mine on every asteroid. Then I crunch them all. Then I have a look inside the FACTs to determine the true mineral production rate. Then I go to complex calculator, and use one entry for each mineral type: ore and silicon. I tell it that the yield is one, and that I am using M M sized mines. I then adjust the number of mines - which could be hundreds or even thousands - to reflect close to true mineral production as shown on bottom left section of Complex Calculator. Don't worry about the EC usage as it's all the same per unit of mineral. This process will generally get accuracy down from the five or so percent normally associated with the CC/CC combo, down to something more manageable like one half of a percent or less. All that you need to do then is to ensure that you have more than 0.5 percent excess EC production, or more than 0.5 percent under-usage of that mineral, when you do the Complex Calculator thing. If you don't use all asteroids then all it means is that if you do happen to add more later, you'll need to go through all of above steps again.
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Post by Brian5001 »

Ok, then my question is, how would 'not' compressing the stations into super-stations affect performance? If you keep the station attributes like that of a normal Complex hub, but have them share the Factory Module model, then wouldn't this accomplish the same thing, without losing any production values?

Also, if I can figure out how, I'll write a script that can allow you to group stations, by name or type, and toggle production on/off for those groups.

-EDIT- Got a plan for this, now. Going to set it so you can turn off the things that fall under the 3 major complex headings, Products/Intermediate/Resources. which should greatly simplify the management of massive complexes.

-EDIT AGAIN- Actually, it appears that I could use the Advanced Complex Hub scene and such, but make the hub larger and set it so all production is transfered to the hub, prior to deletion of the 'physical' stations being added to it.
glenmcd
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Post by glenmcd »

Brian5001 wrote:Ok, then my question is, how would 'not' compressing the stations into super-stations affect performance? If you keep the station attributes like that of a normal Complex hub, but have them share the Factory Module model, then wouldn't this accomplish the same thing, without losing any production values?
In my opinion, the CPU load reduction and resulting OOS framerate increase due to combining multiple factories into FACTs would hardly be measurable. The IS framerate increase due to less polygons in the FACTs compared to the factories inside on the other hand is extremely significant. I think this could possibly be the decent solution for the rounding problem. Simply don't change that part of the complex model at all. AFAICS the additional work due to not combining factories logically would only be significant if you tend to disable production often. I've never done it personally but can see that it could be helpful in some circumstances. In any case, what you're suggesting would mostly effect existing Complex Cleaner users. New users are in one way benefited through being exposed to less changes.

But would such a change impact CC in other ways? Does one have to consider the "physical" size of the factories inside of those huge FACTs? Hope not..
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Post by thyco »

Is there a version of this mod that installs with the plugin manager? going the manual install doesnt work if use mods like improved races as ill either have one or the other working.
ianrobo75
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Moving hub after relocate

Post by ianrobo75 »

I tried the RELOCATE command for the first time which in itself worked ok. However, I found that the hub didn't move with the complex so I tried the HUB command to move the hub near the relocated complex. The command was accepted and a factory icon added at the location I chose which disappear after maybe 6 minutes (non-Seta equivalent time), then nothing else happened.
Am I using the command correctly or do I need to self destruct the hub and build another? To test that, I tried self destructing the hub but the hub did not appear again after running CRUNCH again.
I'm all confused. Any help would be appreciated.
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Gazz
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Re: Moving hub after relocate

Post by Gazz »

I am confused. You say that the hub was moved to where you told it to... but then disappeared.
Yet you self destructed it, which you clearly cannot do with a disappeared hub.

And if you destroy the hub, how and why should it reappear? It's like... destroyed, you know?
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Argonaught.
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Post by Argonaught. »

I have Tubeless mod installed, is there any problems using this with tubeless mod or would I need to remove tubeless first to use this set of scripts?

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Gazz
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Post by Gazz »

Argonaught. wrote:I have Tubeless mod installed, is there any problems using this with tubeless mod
No.
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Argonaught.
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Post by Argonaught. »

Cool, thanks for fast reply, gonna give it a go now :)

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ianrobo75
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Re: Moving hub after relocate

Post by ianrobo75 »

Gazz wrote:I am confused. You say that the hub was moved to where you told it to... but then disappeared.
Yet you self destructed it, which you clearly cannot do with a disappeared hub.

And if you destroy the hub, how and why should it reappear? It's like... destroyed, you know?
Sorry, I should have been clearer. Here were the steps:
1. Used the relocate command to attempt to move the complex to a better position - The module container relocated to the commanded position ok but the hub stayed in the original position, still connected to the complex (at least on the map anyway), now some 90 or so kms between the hub and module container.
2. Tried to move the hub to near the new module container position using the hub command - map shows something like a station at the commanded hub position (showed but not listed on the right of the map). After a while the station disappears. The net effect is no hub relocation, no log message. The hub remains at the original position 90kms from the module container.
3. Tried complex cleaner self destruct-ing the (original) hub - Now I have the crunched stations (prefixed FACT) and the module container but no hub. So no hub to connect the stations to.
4. Tried item 2 again to 'create' a hub - Same effect; a stations appears then disappears after a while.

Edit: I sorted it - I just needed to connect two stations together to create a hub (like with any two stations) - obvious really. I confused myself because when you initially crunch a hub is created for you to connect to.

I'm just a little confused what the 'hub' command is for though and how to use it since it didn't appear to move my hub to near the relocated module container.

Plus it would have been better for me if the hub relocated with the module container - although this is a bit overly critical of such a fantastic mod.
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argon_emperor
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Post by argon_emperor »

Hi there

Just started playing again after a long absence (well, 6 months or so, not really that long an absence), and I went back to using this mod. I also am running XTended 1.1, so I merged your TFactories entries onto the bottom of the XTC TFactories (only needed to merge the ones after the placeholder stations, correct?), changed the first line to have the extra 23 entries, and then ran the game.

Everything seemed okay, it installed and detected the files, was able to crunch some Terran stations no problem, and then I noticed the big box was missing when I looked at it...

Scripts/Mods I'm running:

XTC v1.1
Complex Cleaner (TFactories merged into XTC one)
Asteroid Creator
Ship Clamper
Crystal Free SPP

Any idea why the box is missing?

Edit: Actually, can't even connect them in a complex... just noticed when I tried to get them all together... :/
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Gazz
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Post by Gazz »

If models are missing as well as the connection nodes in the factory models (so you can't connect them) then the mod is not installed.
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Post by argon_emperor »

Hmm... how come it told me it was then, and I could even use the commands?... slightly annoying... oh well, I'll have to try reinstalling it.

Just to be clear on this, when merging your factory listings into the XTC TFactories, I take everything other than the placeholder factories, copy them to the bottom, in the order they were, then change the value up the top to reflect the new amount of entries? I'm not doing anything wrong there? (I copied the XTC TFactories into a new .cat and appended, then activated as the mod.)
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Post by Gazz »

argon_emperor wrote:Hmm... how come it told me it was then, and I could even use the commands?... slightly annoying... oh well, I'll have to try reinstalling it.
Because for that it checks TFactories, which is part of the CAT archive it comes in.

If TFactories is part of the CAT archive that contains the rest of it's required files, the check can tell you if all of it has been installed.

Spreading a mod across multiple locations is for experienced modders.
Somehow you lost the rest of the mod along the way.
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argon_emperor
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Post by argon_emperor »

I feel like a complete idiot. Fix was simple, put the modified TFactories file back into the Complex_Cleaner CAT and activate it, and everything works. Can't believe I missed something so obvious, that the object files were in there as well and needed to be kept...

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction to fix it.

Cheers :)

AE
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Argonaught.
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Post by Argonaught. »

something a little weird going on here I think:

Complex before dismantling and crunching:

Original Complex

Complex after crunching and linking:

Crunched and linked Complex

The outputs are a tad off there :S.

Is this supposed to happen after crunching and linking up?

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Gazz
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Post by Gazz »

The second shot doesn't show how many cahoona and cattlestuff factory modules there were each.
The cahoona modules should add up to 19.

For normal factories the algorithm is pretty foolproof.
1 factory unit always has an EC capacity of 5000.
If the product is cahoonas and the EC cap is 25k, add a size 5 module for cahoonas.
There is no way in the game to cheat on the EC capacity beyond flat out scripting the EC resource away.
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Argonaught.
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Post by Argonaught. »

I may have found the problem.

I have x2 ships installed and did a merge and forgot when merging the Tfactory files to replce one of the place holders with the X2 SY factory

Sorry for the confusion there :S

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