Why no multiplayer?

Stormsong · Post by **Stormsong** » Fri, 10. Oct 08, 18:48

KoshZdryh wrote:Nasty thing to consider --ELITE-- vaporware ...

No one did. Elite IV (as in, number four) on the other hand is the multiplayer version that has supposedly been in development for years now.

Pogi · Post by **Pogi** » Fri, 10. Oct 08, 19:28

Example:

Xclan of 5 players..1 player host...Set up a gateway where they are dependent on each other to expand their own universes..Each players universe data/stats/property info etc. is available to the others through this gateway..Coop, planning, strategy etc...Once this clan reaches certain goals of expansion, they can take their unique blueprints, wares etc. to another "global" server to trade with other Xclans for further expansion...This would make the X world truly dynamic...For instance:..To acquire a certain technology a player must complete a certain mission or discover a certain item etc..This is then shared with your clan which opens up other building opportunities for the group..While one player in his universe is working on one goal, another could be going for another...The ultimate goal is to reach the level where the unique Xclan can trade their unique tech at a global level with other Xclans...Bandwidth is minimal and any player with a internet connection could be host for a small 5 player clan because only text/chat and limited graphics are being used...The bandwidth for the "global" Xclan server is also small because it is being reduced by a factor of 5 of actual players due to the player host...At the very most if every player in a clan that has reached the level to trade at the global server was to log on there, it would not be more than what a dedicated chat server could handle anyway...Egosoft could then concentrate on creating unique wares/stations and ships to offer clans...this is the direction I would like to see this game go, as I know that I will probably not see in my lifetime a truly online verson of this game as we know it now.

@Egosoft...People like to interact..Even if it is limited.

Post by **Cycrow** » Fri, 10. Oct 08, 19:45

Pogi, im not really sure how any of those ideas would reduce the development of making the game multiplayer

clcabbage · Post by **clcabbage** » Fri, 10. Oct 08, 20:14

I've enjoyed this series since X2- The Threat, and i have to say if it were not for the script & modding people out there I would never have been so addicted and enthusiastic in playing this game over again as many time as i have...

If mutiplayer elements stop that ( and yes I believe it would have to mostly ) then I'm 99% against it.

I love the replay value and versatility that a solo game that soo many people take interest in with thier inputs, upgrading, tactic sharing and any overall changes that even the best multiplayer feature would not make up for losing so much in this aspect. These freedoms of changes to ones own game set the X-series far far above any other for me.

-- my opinion
( I think most people have preferred script & modding , over hack & cheating anyways ... )

Pogi · Post by **Pogi** » Fri, 10. Oct 08, 20:16

" reduce the development "? You lost me there Cycrow....I was hoping to spur "some" develpoment even if limited....I'm sure you know tons more about whats going on inside than I do, but some of us are getting old...lol

Nyax · Post by **Nyax** » Fri, 10. Oct 08, 20:24

Since noone else has mentioned this i'll just point out that 'Do you want multiplayer?' Style polls have been posted over and over and over again on the Forum and they always say the same thing- The MAJORITY of the community DON'T want multiplayer. Or at least they don;t want it at the expense of the single player game (which it inevitably would have to be)

Egosoft have said many times that they would like to do an X-online but the fact is it's not currently feasible and an awfully big chunk of their existing Customer base wouldn't touch it if they did make it.

There are many, many multiplayer games out there but an ever decreasing number of games are dedicated to fans of single player games, so Multiplayer gamers- Please leave alone one of the few we've still got thank you very much.

Hob Anagerik · Post by **Hob Anagerik** » Fri, 10. Oct 08, 20:25

Frontier are just across the road from me on the Science Park in Cambridge. I wonder if I can sneak over there at lunchtime and peer through their windows? Perhaps they are still working on Elite 4, even though there is no mention of it at all on their site now.

Pogi · Post by **Pogi** » Fri, 10. Oct 08, 20:30

I've just looked at this realistically, the bandwidth required for this graphics intensive of a game would be enormous and costly...I just put up a scenario to where some sort of multiplayer could be achieved through clans utilizing the signed scripts only while still allowing people to modify their own games and play single player if they wished. Edit..Actually with the right gateway, we could build a fan based online version of what I explained above...I just used the Quake engine as an example, I'm sure there are much better options out there.

Post by **Cycrow** » Fri, 10. Oct 08, 20:35

Pogi wrote:" reduce the development "? You lost me there Cycrow....I was hoping to spur "some" develpoment even if limited....I'm sure you know tons more about whats going on inside than I do, but some of us are getting old...lol

when talking about the money required to make the game multiplayer, the main cost is the actual development costs, ie, the costs to hire the coders and such to create the multiplayer code into the game. This isn't cheap.

the cost of servers isn't as much as a problem as by the time you need these, the game will have been done and will start to earn incoming to cover those costs.

but the development costs are needed before the work even starts

Pogi · Post by **Pogi** » Fri, 10. Oct 08, 20:49

From edit above: Edit..Actually with the right gateway, we could build a fan based online version of what I explained above...I just used the Quake engine as an example, I'm sure there are much better options out there.

I'm talking IP to IP fan based multiplayer as described above with Egosoft support for global clans..You get both worlds then..Join a clan if you want to or not...Imagine a station you fly to in your game where you can meet up with 4 or 5 of your friends playing the same version of the game as you IP to IP..All working together to reach the goal of submitting your clans uniques to the global server for trade to other clans and theiir uniques...You know code Cycrow..Is it possible to make such a gateway through a station and tie it IP to IP?

fud · Post by **fud** » Fri, 10. Oct 08, 21:08

I have to admit, it's been a while since I've seen this debate.

[grabs popcorn]

Electric-Shadow · Post by **Electric-Shadow** » Fri, 10. Oct 08, 21:10

If you guys wanted to earn extra revenue from the game rather than just the purchase cost without subjecting players to a monthly subcription (which most would probably oppose) then you could sell certain extras which players wouldn't otherwise be able to get, and things which are actually usefull too, like perhaps advanced energy cells (an advanced cell could have the power equivelant of two standard cells) if you sell these in packs of 1,000 (an example) people would probably buy them as long as they are not overpriced. You're certainly not limited as to what you could sell.

That's just an example but it's not impossible (imho) to earn extra revenue from the game, a perfect example being WoW and other games like it.

Pogi · Post by **Pogi** » Fri, 10. Oct 08, 21:11

...Well I guess the popcorn means your gonna stick around for the show..lol...What is your take on my idea anyway?

PowerPC603 · Post by **PowerPC603** » Fri, 10. Oct 08, 21:18

If X3 had multiplayer, I wouldn't play it, only the single-player side of it.

Why?

1.
There could be no SETA.
When you have a ship (TS) which goes only 50, how long would it take to reach the other side of a sector which is 100km across?
This could take an hour, if not more.
Then it will be a very boring game.

2.
If it would be one universe, within one month, the entire free space would be occupied with stations from other players.
If a new player comes online, he can't build anywhere.
Or he should build his stations several 100km's of the center of the sector, which is no fun at all.

3.
Lag.
If sectors become overcrowded, no-one could enter any sector because of the lag.

4.
Massive bandwidth requirements.
On one server, the maximum number of people could be a few 100 (not several 1000's like other MMORPG's).
If a sector has 100 players in it, and everyone fires 1 single shot,
the position of that bullet needs to be sent to every player so everyone can see the bullet.
Imagine everyone firing continuously, this would take an immense amount of bandwidth.
Even the players outside this sector would experience lag, because the servers needs to send all bullet-data to every single person in that sector.

5.
Some players like it to kill newbies (see every MMORPG).
That wouldn't be fun for anyone.
If there is one guy with a Destroyer and he positions his ship right next to the starting point for new players and sets every race to enemy, the new players gets killed when joining the universe.
This is also the reason I gave up LineageII online (I've got my own server running at home now) because of pk's (player kills).

So, no multiplayer for me.

Pogi · Post by **Pogi** » Fri, 10. Oct 08, 21:28

I'm not talking about "Physically" being there..Just a gateway through a station to exchange data and wares IP to IP 4-5 players max with one player as host.

Mistac2000 · Post by **Mistac2000** » Fri, 10. Oct 08, 21:29

It'd be interesting to see it done like the upcoming Fable 2. Let's you could allow a limited amount of users into your universe. Once there they could assist you like a NPC or oppose you like an NPC. The kicker would be whatever they did as in Fable 2 you would have the consequences to deal with, even after they left. So if you let someone in who destroys half your fleet, too bad. Also any money they earn or combat or trade points are saved and transported to their game once they leave.

Electric-Shadow · Post by **Electric-Shadow** » Fri, 10. Oct 08, 21:38

Each player could have their own universe but trade and fight in others, say each player names their universe and then it can be accessed by via a list of all the universes, but each player may only build in their own universe but travel to any.

For the matter of newbie killing you could introduce some sort of universe protection where other players cannot attack new universes, or even enter them unless the player wants others to be able to enter their universe but they still wouldnt be able to attack.

Pogi · Post by **Pogi** » Fri, 10. Oct 08, 21:47

My idea has no fighting among other players at all..Only a gateway through a special station where clan members can interact, trade wares, etc...It would be nice to see one clan members stations show up in my game though..Race1 Race 2 etc..This could be useful in reaching clan goals by helping each other out with new trade possibilities or supplying needed wares in your game...Trading is a very important part of this game and the easiest part to implement IP to IP multiplayer.

Edit: Say your low on credits and the Xenon are giving you a hard time..Imagine a clan member loaning you some credits to buy a M3..Or even building a station in a sector for you to support your expansion...Many many possibilities for coop play..If we just had a gateway.

em3e3 · Post by **em3e3** » Fri, 10. Oct 08, 22:27

Why does this even need to be discussed again?

From Bernd himself - Collecting ideas: multi-player in games like X3

KennethX3Freak · Post by **KennethX3Freak** » Fri, 10. Oct 08, 22:39

NO NO NO NO NO!!!

NO MULTIPLAYER EVER UNLESS ITS A SEPERATE GAME!!!!

how would it function??? how would any server handle it??? how would you be able to empire build in a game where you have little stupid kids blowing up all your crap? how would you weed out hackers? how would you stop scripts and mods from affecting your online game?

you say multiplayer! multiplayer! multiplayer!

but you dont say how? how? how?

it will never be a multiplayer. no how, no way, and i would seriously be unimpressed and disappointed if X3 pulled a stunt like that.

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

Why no multiplayer?