Ok, we need to talk about highways.

[elexis]

Now that the clickbait title has got your attention, lets clarify what this thread is NOT about.

This is NOT about XR vs X3
This is NOT about Highways vs other forms of travel

This thread is about this:



The current way that highways are rendered, in my opinion, makes highways an eyesore on otherwise picturesque, screenshot-worthy backgrounds.
The appearance of highways is just not up to scratch with the rest of the scenery, especially when viewed from a distance.

What do others think? How should the look of highways change to make them prettier?

[A5PECT]

Agreed completely. We get it, Egosoft. You made space highways.

The glowing energy effect should be most visible around the structures at the endpoints of the highways, and the support rings placed intermittently along the highway's length. It makes sense to show the "tubes" here because the viewer can immediately establish "Oh, these energy tubes are being generated by these devices". When you see the tubes blatantly strewn about open space there's no intuitive conclusion to draw as to what they are or why they're there; they're almost non-sequitir. As a tube travels away from these structures and into the distance, have it gradually dissipate and ultimately disappear completely so it isn't confusing viewers or butting into the nice starscapes so much.

As you fly closer to a section of tube in open space, the effect can become visible without the need structural context. This is mainly so the player doesn't accidentally fly into a highway they couldn't see. But I'd also like to see some other effect, like small, subtle particles traveling very quickly down the highway to indicate direction and give a sense of speed (similar to the "stardust" effect used when flying outside of highways). Maybe throw in varying volumes of ship traffic depending on the zone's population density. I noticed in XR that you never see any ships traveling inside the highways when you're looking at them from the outside.

[mr.WHO]

Why not to scrap the highway effect and put it as HUD/ecliptic projector line?
Let say that fluff wise the highways are not physically in real dimension so they are invisible by eye and need to be rendered by HUD.

Before you say it's ugly I just want to point to I-War 2 - old space sim that had very minimalistic, but great looking HUD.

[Axeface]

I have to agree, I think the stretched texture route just looks plain bad, think they are an eyesore in rebirth. I like the virtual/hud idea more than the current implimentation tbh. I can't see why the current approach can't be made to look better though, particle effects instead maybe? Or how about the tube only being blatently visible around ships travelling through it? (Would look like ships glowing as they moved past you really fast, could look very cool). The current effects opacity could be reduced drastically, so that up close you can still almost see it (and hear it). Busy sections will be obvious, remote/deserted sections less so.

[Killjaeden]

if ships would leave really long trails and their engines glowing really bright when travelling along it that could look pretty dope without needing a tube model (though hud projection wouldnt hurt). But that would be many particles and also, it would propably cause issues when you travel closer and get into the stream of particles. Plus its propably a lot of particles that would be required.

[ubuntufreakdragon]

Just discard the effect if it is more than 1km away from the player.
Lore Explanaition:
1 your shields cheate a visible interaction
2 your sensors display it on your hud

[Observe]

The current way that highways are rendered, in my opinion, makes highways an eyesore on otherwise picturesque, screenshot-worthy backgrounds.

I agree completely. Highways in XR make space look like a junkyard. Short of making them invisible, is there a way to make a junkyard look attractive?

One thing that might help, is if the highways go in straight lines - rather than the twisting turning roller coaster mini-game we now have.

[elexis]

One possible approach could be to look at how shipping lanes look in real life. They have buoys along their lengths with that light up at night. When viewed from a distance all you can see is the lights.

Something similar could be done for space highways, have a series of well spread out buoys that that pulse light you can see at a distance, when you get closer you can see the buoys themselves, and closer still you see the distortion of the actual highway.

[JSDD]

if ships would leave really long trails and their engines glowing really bright when travelling along it that could look pretty dope without needing a tube model (though hud projection wouldnt hurt). But that would be many particles and also, it would propably cause issues when you travel closer and get into the stream of particles. Plus its propably a lot of particles that would be required.

modern GPUs can handle a huge amout of particles without problems ... up to 1 million and more shouldnt be a problem, even if you do a bit physics on them (dont forget: egosoft requires GTX 970 as minimum GPU power). whats out of the viewing frustum can be culled / doesnt need to updated / drawn. only ships near player can collide with particles, other distant ships dont have to do physics on the particle stream. and if you draw them not only as pixel-sized points, you can reduce the # of "particles": maybe distant particles can be replaces with little blended triangles ... if they are fast-moving the player wont notice the difference (i guess)

[Observe]

One possible approach could be to look at how shipping lanes look in real life. They have buoys along their lengths with that light up at night. When viewed from a distance all you can see is the lights.

Or have the buoys light up when in close proximity. Presumably, the exact location of these highways is generally known and could be presented on the map. If the locations are not known, or are secret, they could be purchased, stolen or obtained by some other means.

[Tomonor]

The Freelancer spacesim had a better take on these highways. They put these accelerator gates after one another, and their presence indicated the highway itself.

Although, they were a bit crowded, it's still a lot better both visually and game mechanic-wise. No magic energy tube floating through space, just plain simple physical reaction, much like how TOAs functioned back in X3 in theory.

[Axeface]

The Freelancer spacesim had a better take on these highways. They put these accelerator gates after one another, and their presence indicated the highway itself.

Although, they were a bit crowded, it's still a lot better both visually and game mechanic-wise. No magic energy tube floating through space, just plain simple physical reaction, much like how TOAs functioned back in X3 in theory.

They are basically magnetic coil guns no? Always wondered how the accelerators evolved into the highways in the lore.

[adeine]

To quote my past self:

Are there any plans to make highways look less like magic space noodles?

I understand the original design from X3AP is impractical, but perhaps something inbetween like Freelancer did with its trade lanes. Basically something that looks more like a functional, technology powered highway and less like a solid tube of clouds twirling through space with nothing connecting it.

Home of Light had more in the way of 'highway boosters' and highway-support stations. And there were similar structures in the live streams. I don't think it will be straight shots like FL but indications seem to be much less tubes and much less bendiness.

I think the biggest issue is the opacity of the 'tube', looking at it from the outside. Even without better 'infrastructure' supporting the highway, if it was a subtle shader effect (like a 'spacetime distortion' or some such) instead of a solid texture it'd be significantly less off putting. Better for managing graphical pop-in too.

Sure, but space is almost a vacuum, so we have a context in which Newton's first law applies almost perfectly. There's no reality-based need for a highway system for a ship to maintain a given velocity. It's purely a gameplay conceit, one that's needed because games generally don't use Newtonian flight models (X games certainly never have).

You can kind of handwave an explanation that highway/trade lane systems provide 1) a stretch free from any micro debris that might be fatal at such high speeds, and 2) provide superior and safer acceleration and more importantly, deceleration for ships flying through. In space, braking sucks!

So yeah, +1 for the Freelancer model although the light buoy idea seems like it could work as well. If they only light up on proximity this would also completely solve render distance issues.

The benefit of the Freelancer approach is that it looks more believable and creates gameplay opportunities - disabling or destroying individual links to pull people out of the lane in the middle of nowhere to pounce on their sweet cargo or cut off supplies/reinforcements.

[linolafett]

Just that you know, i am watching this thread

[nemesis1982]

Even though I agree the highways aren't the prettiest things you find in the universe. I do think they're functional in their visual design. You do see them from a large distance and can thus get your bearings.

@Freelancer implementation: Dislike this one since it creates choke points along the highway. The XR highways provides far more freedom.

@buoys: that could actually work

@Particles: I wouldn't mind the added load since my system can easily handle it however I prefer ego directs their efforts on more important things for release. Like working mechanics, adding diversity, adding races and so on

@Having a scanner overlay which show highways: Hiding the highway energy conduit and only displaying it when a scanner overlay would be applied could be a nice middle ground. However that would mean that you could get dragged into a highway you never saw coming when you disable it!

[Tamina]

+1 to everything said so far.

My favourite is a combination of "accelerators" along the route (HoL DLC) and a way more subtle effect (like glowing particles or lighting effects) that get visible only when close by.

Oh and maybe another color then this vomit-yellowgreen
Blue-Cyan from the superhighways is way more fitting. Btw., superhighways are way better then the traditional gates.

[Axeface]

One thing I want to add is that I really thought the HoL highways were much better and more fun than the other systems, the way it links superhighways and normal highways in an unbroken loop is much more enjoyable (the only 1 ugly highway in 1 direction is better than 2 in both directions imho). Thats not to say it should be the only way to make them though, some variety is nice.
I think superhighways are too fast also, it's like it was decided that people dont like them so they virtually removed them by making them insanely fast.

Btw., superhighways are way better then the traditional gates.

Superhighways dont and cant link systems though, they are for travel between sectors.

[Tamina]

Yes, but I meant this travel effect you get, swooooshing through the planets.
I just wanted to say that superhighways are fine, it's just the regular ones.

[Silla]

I like the idea of just seeing like trails as someone suggested.

The logical problem of simple accelerators is that accelerators don’t explain the tunnel effect as you normally would have to enter at the accelerator gate to actually get accelerated. If at all those should be field generators of some sort.

Besides that I think it would be interesting if those field generators would need some resources too. Maybe even the gates itself...so traveling between systems would cost you some money if you want to use those gates or the highways...

Imagine you could shut down a highway system by destroying the supply route >) on the other hand it would make those gates clunky

[Miniding]

Something like this would do the thing you want...
Those were travel "highway" in Freelancer for those who remember like me

http://the-starport.net/freelancer/news ... 527928.jpg

{oversized image replaced with link - CBJ}