[TC] XENON WARS by deca.death

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Infekted
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Post by Infekted »

Laser towers cant move and their damage output is pathetic. And you have also proven they are ineffective as they cannot deal with a few K/J packages+ complement.
I have poked the xenon many times. My usual field test of a ship is to go and waste xenon core. Nothing but nothing makes it past my blockades. Which have also been up and operating for months.

Logistics. Are easy. Spam buy, load up carrier, send to gate, issue orders. I am replacing maybe one fighter on a really heavy gate every 4-5 days. I have several hundred fighters sat around waiting to be placed if required. It's enough to last me basically forever.

And for cost. My blockades cost less than yours. You are using 4 M2s? So at minimum 400million. Probly more like 500-600 million due to bits and pieces. Ok you capped your M2s, but for me the time investment is even worse than the credit investment. And it doesn't change the value of the assets used. I could basically go and cap the same number of M2s, sell most of them, set up my blockade and still have a lot of credits left over. The LTs are also not free. When you could be selling them. Yes they are cheaper than most fighters, but also much poorer performing. I'd rather use M5s. I at least I can issue orders to them effectively.

My blockade fleets cost in the region of 200-300 million per gate tops. Even if I include the trade station I have taken to using in hotspots. I could probably reduce the cost by using cheaper fighters, but I dont need to so I don't.

I also don't need to imagine the task of buying, equiping and deploying thousands of ships. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt :)

As you say tho, different strokes for different strokes. But I maintain nothing is proven in favour of using LTs. Unless you are using Gazz's ring of fire script. Then you could have a point.
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Post by blackfire83 »

Pretty sure Deca steals all his capitals. :)
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Infekted
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Post by Infekted »

Irrelevent. Still worth "X" amount. As I said, I could also steal the same amount, sell them, set up my blockade and have a few hundred mill left over.
I dont steal for profit anyways. It's too easy and the rep hit is to be honest retardedly small.
deca.death
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Post by deca.death »

Infekted wrote: As you say tho, different strokes for different strokes. But I maintain nothing is proven in favour of using LTs. Unless you are using Gazz's ring of fire script. Then you could have a point.
So you don't use M2 in the blockade? How many fighters do you use per gate did you say...?
There are plenty of reasons using LTs instead of fighters, I've mentioned them all so there is no point in repeating myself. All your notions on LT's are irrelevant. They cannot move and they need not to. Their damage output is irrelevant because they are used as decoys. They are tough, durable and virtually require no maintenance once set up. (btw. your reporting of one-two fighters loss every 5 days does seem a bit... optimistic I must say). They are much easier to deploy and much cheaper to produce. And they are 100% effective proven you don't tease Xenon.

If you just want to keep you galaxy safe with as little cost and trouble as possible, then I think that there is no contest. LTs win hands down. If you like to experiment and cannot restrain from attacking machines on the occasion (Like me, paradoxically ; ) it is possible that you will be better off with fighters. I still wouldn't do it but i allow the possibility. Maintaining large number of fighters might not be particular problem but setting whole thing up definitely is - at least for me. How many of those things you have again...? If I hate one aspect of this game then I hate micromanaging and buying ships.
Infekted
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Post by Infekted »

I use one M2. And have found I dont need more than 30 fighters for screen. Some places I put in 60, mainly because thats how many fit in my Collosus(ii?). That many is way way way over kill tho.
You are ignoring the fact that fighters put out disgusting damage. Way more than a mere M2. 30 ships = 120 HEPT + 150 PRG.
I am starting to think I don't even need that one M2. I just put them in for... RP reasons I guess. I like having a big bad mofo leading the pack. I have also found that its best to have my fighters operating independantly of the M2. Tying them to it, basically reduces their speed to the same as the M2.. Which is not good.
You may think that my reported losses are overly optimistic but its simple truth. I started another game recently, on the side. Put in my usual blockades on ALL xenon sectors. Three days later I have yet to loose even a single fighter. Ok I haven't annoyed the xenon this time round, but still..

I have eight main xenon blockades iirc. One M2 per, plus 32 (panther full ;p) or so fighters. I have other blockades, but thats a seperate issue.
You already know how I buy them. Wait for L stock in Omnicron lyrae. Spam buy a couple of hundred, cloning on 5 PRG per ship.
Broadcast orders to all docked ships/ship in sector to get them into carriers. Ok, it is a little RSI inducing but thats X3 for you.. Considerably less effort than setting up a large mobile mining op for example!
I've found that for heavy gates, it's best to put my fighters in a wing. So I can easily give them seperate orders from the M2. Three sectors use this. Blackholesun, grand ex and thynns abyss.
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Masochisto
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Post by Masochisto »

Gentlemen, Gentlemen... there is more than one "right way" to blockade a Xenon Gate. You both have found a strategy that works for you, that has proven within your requirements for effectiveness and efficiency. There is nothing really to argue about,

Great original post Deca. Personally, I would love to read more write ups where people go over the status of their games like this and discussed what worked, what didn't work, etc.

Very interesting stuff.

* Edit: spelling
Last edited by Masochisto on Wed, 21. Sep 11, 16:44, edited 2 times in total.
Infekted
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Post by Infekted »

Arguement? Lies! This is a frank exchange of views or robust discourse :D

Anyways, I can't help it if he's wrong... I kid ofc ;P
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Post by Triaxx2 »

How are you counting mounts for weapons? Individual mounts in turrets? Or turrets capable of mounting the weapon?

If the former, then it's actually 8, if the latter, 4 is correct. But most people mount GC's and forget FAA can indeed fit there.

Though watching a Shrike with 8 FAA chew up fighters is quite entertaining.
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deca.death
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Post by deca.death »

Triaxx2 wrote: If the former, then it's actually 8, if the latter, 4 is correct. But most people mount GC's and forget FAA can indeed fit there.
I count weapons, but as you've noted - I don't really consider putting anything else except GC there. Shrike without GC ... I don't know about that one ; ) That thing has energy regen of a Q ; )
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Post by Triaxx2 »

Yeah, but in a Kha'ak sector anti-fighter capabilities are paramount.
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heratik
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Post by heratik »

So is maximum anti capital capabilities!

Thats when the 8 ship hangar bay comes into use, 8 x 4PBG/4HEPT Nova R/Falcon H or some Terran fighters on top of the Shrike's remaining 2x2 FAA should be adequate should it not?
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Post by Triaxx2 »

So far I've not encountered anything bigger than an M6 in the Kha'ak Sectors.
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Vyrebird
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Post by Vyrebird »

Triaxx2 wrote:So far I've not encountered anything bigger than an M6 in the Kha'ak Sectors.
Fear not, the Kha'ak M2s and M1s will show up in time ;)
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Impressive!

Post by David Howland »

Very Impressive deca.!
On the aquisition front, I used to always be astonished at how Bill Huntington got his hands on so many Tyrs, with you it is IBLs. How do you source so many? Is it:-
1. Spoils of war and boarding?
2. Farming Yaki Sectors, I have been trying this for over six months now with precious few results, in fact a couple of their stations have just turned red on me again?
3. Are we cloning here? A lot of exploiting to do, to get so many though!
Or maybe a combination of all three? That would explain the vast numbers!

Always nice to see a successful new angle on dealing with those tin cans, well done, I look forward to your next instalment. Good Luck!
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heratik
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Re: Impressive!

Post by heratik »

David Howland wrote: I used to always be astonished at how Bill Huntington got his hands on so many Tyrs, with you it is IBLs. How do you source so many? Is it:-
1. Spoils of war and boarding?
!
I have hundreds of IBLs, ALL of which were acquired through boarding, mainly pirate ships, but many race ships come equipped with them also. Considering that if you are patient at reloading at the core hack phase, you can get up to 26 IBL from pirate capitals, and I have boarded dozens, you see getting hold of IBL is no issue for me :D
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Post by Infekted »

I once capped 3 Rays in a row all packing 32 IBLs each. Contrary to popular opinion I don't find Yaki have a higher chance to have them. Any ship that can mount them as an equal chance to have some on board once you've capped it.
I find it counter productive to cap too many yaki ships anyway. Since I want them friendly to get all I can out of their fabs. They give a steady trickle of them, tho this is pretty damn slow. Something in the region of ten (ish) per game day.
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Thanks!

Post by David Howland »

Thank you Gentlemen for that reassuring info.
I can see that my next lesson at my Dukes Marine Training Centre is going to have to focus on Hull preservation and Core hacking RELOADING skills!
I really must get a proper syllabus sorted for my centre, training at the moment is far too haphazard.
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Re: [TC] XENON WARS by deca.death

Post by cmdnenad »

deca.death wrote: You know the tales of fighters crashing on Odin's tail /engine fins? Well they are true and worse. I've lost dozens on cutlasses on collisions with ship, that thing is just too huge.
I've noticed that you're less likely to lose fighters this way if you're not personally flying the carrier.

I may just have been lucky, but I have never lost a single fighter due to a carrier collision, unless I was flying the carrier myself. As if the collision detection is turned off if the ship is under AI control.
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Post by Triaxx2 »

CODEA solves it by not using the launch or landing bays. ADS does as well I believe.
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Re: Impressive!

Post by deca.death »

David Howland wrote:Very Impressive deca.!
On the aquisition front, I used to always be astonished at how Bill Huntington got his hands on so many Tyrs, with you it is IBLs. How do you source so many? Is it:-
How did you get the impression that I have many IBLs? Those several ships I have that pack them? Well it's hardly more then .... (lemme see, counting tiger, panther, carrack, python, shrike ...) well 50 or so? But I do have 100 more stored. My sources? First several batches I waited for loong time by LMS forge to deliver. Then I go several lucky boardings (32 pcs on few occasions, first time it was a ray : ), now I just farm yaki forges /cls2 trader docked at each with command buy min 1.

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