[SCR] [X3:TC/AP] [v1.9.8.12] [03/23/14] Galaxy Explorer

[DrBullwinkle]

But why am I not allowed to SEE?

If you mean, "Why can you not see the gate that you just came through?", then you can. In some sectors, the gate will be scanned immediately. In other sectors, it depends on the gate and the sector scanning conditions. Again... that is part of an exploration game. Those variations should be *more* frequent; not less.

And why only after exiting a gate? What's the reason?

I do not understand that part of your question.

fortunately, I'm the author and can decide that I want to fix this

Yes, fortunately.

It makes complete sense if you stop calling it a bug, and call it an "enhancement".

Personally, I have never used the "Discover Unknown Sectors" feature. So far, I have always wanted to find new sectors and trade opportunities on my own.

[DrBullwinkle]

Speaking of the Exploring game, here is an actually-useful feature that you could add to Explorers:

Current Explorers are overly enthusiastic about exploring things that I have not yet found myself. They find gates that I have not discovered... and a few of those are very hard to find normally. They will put satellites in sectors where I have purchased the map but have never been.

An overly-enthusiastic Explorer spoiled part of Phanon Corporation for me. That was sad.

I would like for them to not do these things. When "Discover Unknown Sectors" is OFF, I would really prefer that the Explorer not find *anything* new. It is OK if they maintain the satellite network in sectors where I have already been... *that* would be good. But I do not want them spoiling the exploration part of my game (which they do too well).

[gnasirator]

hehehe ... if I made them do that, I'd have to rename them to 'Not-Explorers'

Anyway, how can I avoid discovering something new if the ship happens to pass directly next to it? This is simply not possible. At least not easily done.

You could try not giving your normal duty explorers any sensors. They'll have a very limited view range then.

I do not understand that part of your question.

I meant, why is the only time, explorers do NOT discover every object inside of their scanner range just after they come out of a gate?
Do they have their eyes closed?

I still have the feeling we're talking at cross-purposes.

[DrBullwinkle]

I'd have to rename them to 'Not-Explorers'

Excellent idea!

To be honest, I mostly want them to be satellite-maintainers and asteroid scanners anyway. There is only one case in which I want them to actually explore: When I am doing a new game start in a universe that I have previously explored. Then, and only then, would I want the explorer to actually find anything new.

(And I have not yet played a game in which I wanted the Explore feature.)

Not discovering gates can be achieved with the current settings, I suppose. Just put one satellite in the center of the sector and do not scan.

The larger offense is when Explorers use gates that are previously undiscovered. This one is moderately important (although you may have already fixed it?).

The thing that I do not know whether you can code, is to prevent the Explorer from entering a sector that the Player has never visited (but the map has been purchased). THAT would be sweet if you can find a way to do it.

I meant, why is the only time, explorers do NOT discover every object inside of their scanner range just after they come out of a gate?

Oh, I see. I answered that already... it depends on the scan settings for the gate and for the sector. Some gates are intentionally difficult to find -- that is an important element of the Exploration part of the game. If you "fix" that, then be aware that you are intentionally breaking the Exploration part of the game.

[gnasirator]

okay thanks for clearing that up.
So this is some kind of game mechanic that is preventing the universe from being discovered by my bot ships too easily?
Is it a 'feature' so that I myself have to find those 'rare' gates in order to really see them?

I can see now that it makes sense. Else I just need enough ships doing their business and sooner or later everything would be explored.

(although you may have already fixed it?)

I have. several versions ago. Explorers only use gates, they know. That's exactly the reason, why they get stuck if they enter two new unknown sectors in a row. The first one won't have a connection back to the rest of the universe and the explorer starts playing ping pong between those two.

I will think of a workaround here. Not because I hate ping pong, but because I hate babysitting my ships

The thing that I do not know whether you can code, is to prevent the Explorer from entering a sector that the Player has never visited (but the map has been purchased)

Of course it is possible. But it's a bit of an effort. I'd have to run some manager script following all my actions and filling a global var containing all the sectors I have visited already.
Then I'd let the explorers choose only from those sectors.

BUT (!!!) I just achieved a stable procedure of selecting the next sector for the explorers which works in all circumstances known to me.
I will never do the mistake and touch that. sorry. It was just too much work to risk ruining that part

[DrBullwinkle]

Is it a 'feature' so that I myself have to find those 'rare' gates in order to really see them?

Yes.

It is not just bots that are intentionally impaired. Some gates are hidden to the player's scanners as well. Those gates have to be visually seen and clicked on before they appear in the sector map. Or you have to be VERY close to them to scan them.

Also, you have to travel through the gates in order for the universe map to know the true path that they take.

(although you may have already fixed it?)

I have. several versions ago. Explorers only use gates, they know.

Right. That was my request after an overly-enthusiastic explorer discovered the secret home sector of the Phanon Corporation.

That's exactly the reason, why they get stuck if they enter two new unknown sectors in a row. ...

I will think of a workaround here. Not because I hate ping pong, but because I hate babysitting my ships

If "Discover Unknown Sectors" is ON, then it would be OK to also use undiscovered gates.

The thing that I do not know whether you can code, is to prevent the Explorer from entering a sector that the Player has never visited (but the map has been purchased)

Of course it is possible. But it's a bit of an effort. I'd have to run some manager script following all my actions and filling a global var containing all the sectors I have visited already.

Then I'd let the explorers choose only from those sectors.

Oooh, that does sound complicated. The player moves from ship to ship. But you do not want to track all player ships, because some traders will find undiscovered sectors. So you would only want to track sectors that the actual player has visited. Sounds a bit tricky.

Now you need "Signal_Player_Changes_Ship".

BUT (!!!) I just achieved a stable procedure of selecting the next sector for the explorers which works in all circumstances known to me.
I will never do the mistake and touch that. sorry. It was just too much work to risk ruining that part

Does that mean that you discovered a technique but will not implement it? How marvelously disciplined of you!

You could make a "fork" in the code and start Galaxy Explorers 2.0. If you do not yet use version control software, this might be a good time to consider it.

[Aegyen]

I think your explorers are sneaking off to Bliss places, once in a while. New-ish game start, so I set one in Enduring Light, based from an Asteroid Base (dock to the game), and let him run 1 sector. Performed fine. Readjusted to let him go 2 sectors. Jump pathing wise, this should have allowed him to Black Hole Sun, but not Treasure Chest (war zone).

What does he do? I find a message that he has been destroyed in Treasure Chest? What was that pilot smoking?...

[gnasirator]

Does that mean that you discovered a technique but will not implement it? How marvelously disciplined of you!

No, it means the technique is already in and I don't want to change a running system

What does he do?

Hmm, I don't know. I'll see if I can find something wrong.

[Aegyen]

Hi, back again...

Just to give you more of an example of the logic I am seeing. I replaced explorer I, and decided to let him loose, since I am getting deeper into the AP plot.

He explored Teladi space, and got turned back at Company Strength (probably an enemy spawn, no sats were laid), he flys back up to Grand Exchange, and apparently decided to fly into Xenon 598. Of course, he meets enemies, and since he did not discover the gate leading back to Grand Exchange, he flys to 627. Same scenario again, and he flees to the Hub, and again, to 023. There, he finally died. All those sectors were undiscovered, before his entrance into 598, and each sector he went into, he went to the next, since he couldn't see the gate he had just been through.

I like it, personally, they seem like panicked pilots, getting deeper into the 'chit', so to speak. But, wanted you to see the logic I am seeing play out.

[gnasirator]

Hi,

thanks for the report. that's two votes pro leaving it in status quo so far!

btw, i tested your problems regarding the local mode for explorers. you said if you set the range to 2 or above, they will leave their area.

I couldn't reproduce that behaviour. BUT what I can think of is that the explorers ignore any range limits if they're under attack.
So this is working as intended and just fine

edit: v1.9.8.6 is out. this will be the last release for several days now, because I'm leaving for the next 9 days.

I fixed the bug where explorers would drop more than 1 navsat at on place and I added another sat at 0, -40km, 0 for sectors with a shipyard in it to always guarantee access to the yard.

so far, I'm off. have fun

[Aegyen]

I finally had to decide to go into the t-file and rename the explorers to Banzai Explorers...

These guys are better at getting themselves killed than I am... and that is saying something.

Don't get me wrong, they appeal to my sense of humor. But after releasing 5 of them today, and watching 2 of them die, in the same sector, within 5 minutes of one another, I just had to rename them.

After a bit of playing today, in total, 3 of the 5 managed to get themselves turned into small fragments of metal. I can't fault your script, the mod I am playing is highly dangerous, and many sectors have waves of Pirates, Xenon, and Terrans going through, often, with all of them in the same sector. Your little explorers don't stand a chance.

However, if this expense keeps up, I demand your galactic address for reimbursement. YOU can pay for them!

[DrBullwinkle]

Your little explorers don't stand a chance.

What do you mean, "little"?

Didn't you know that your explorers should be M2's?

What mod? What are they doing when they die? Do they attempt to flee?

I assume you are using v1.9.8.6? Earlier versions had some known issues with premature death.

[Aegyen]

I actually had to go look, I couldn't recall which of the last updates I had gotten. But yes, it is the latest, and greatest.

I am giving XRM a go. With the high hull packs. And believe me, with the fixes Paul has included (eg, Litcube's missile fixes to AI, the vanilla rewrite Litcube did to !move.follow, the invasion routines by using jobs, etc), I have never seen X like this. It is glorious!

I can't say exactly what they were doing, as I wasn't watching them. I got the first ship killed notification, and continued on with what I was doing, since with all that is going on, I expect attrition. But when another ship killed note came, and from the same sector, I had to chuckle, and go look. There were both Terran, and Pirates moving through at the time, so it is anybody's guess. This was an explored sector, so I imagine they were moving through.

The whole discovering gates thing still confuses me a bit. It just doesn't make sense that they don't 'discover' the gate they just passed through. But, I have read what you both have discussed about it, and that is just the way it is. It does lead to them getting themselves cornered in many instances though, since they retreat to a new (possibly dangerous) sector, instead of returning to the 'safe' one they just left.

Hence, they are now SeeCorp's Banzai Explorers * . Which reminds me, I need to go back and 'color' that title.

[DrBullwinkle]

If you want an explorer that is safe for exploring hostile sectors in XRM, then you will want an M6 or above, if memory serves. Jump drives are the only safety mechanism that works, and I think that XRM does not have jump drive-equipped scout ships.

That is an XRM issue; not a Galaxy Explorer issue.

[Aegyen]

Oh, of course, I understand that, Doc..

But, you see, I am just a fledgling privateer, I cannot afford M6 explorers, yet...

I just find their behavior humorous at times. And I cannot resist giving the author a hard time about it. Anything that is better at getting killed than I am, deserves a notation.

If there were any feature I would request, it would be a Lucike type of 'comm channel', where they effectively communicated danger zones to one another, that they did not return to for x amount of time. But, I am pleased with the script, as it stands.

[gnasirator]

sooo .... giving me hard time, eh?
when I read your posts, you're doing this very well

the comm channel is not easy to implement because the whole script is built in a 'relative' or better recursive way.
This means there is no absolute decision for the next sector, no choice from all sectors in the universe possible or in range, like e.g. mk3 traders do.
The routine is always looking at bordering sectors only. So a blacklist would be hard to realize, albeit not impossible.

[veryinky]

In X3:TC or AP with TC plots 1.1:

How does this explorer script handle Terran sectors with ATF access restrictions like Mars? They're not initially hostile. Reading the thread I talk about Earth sector but if I only have atf asteroid belt access, what happens?

[DrBullwinkle]

How does this explorer script handle Terran sectors with ATF access restrictions like Mars?

Gnasirator has improved threat detection and fleeing quite a bit. The explorers may enter a hostile sector, but will quickly run away from the threats.

That said, keep watch for any possible cases where it does not do the job.

I have not had any explorers die recently, which is a dramatic improvement over early versions.

[veryinky]

Gnasirator has improved threat detection and fleeing quite a bit. The explorers may enter a hostile sector, but will quickly run away from the threats.

How do they keep track of which sectors are hostile and do they detect when a sector ceases to be hostile? Can I tell them that a sector is safe now or will they freak out if I drag them into Mars orbit after they were shot at by the ATF there a few hours before and remember it as a "hostile" sector?

I guess I'll be testing this tonight on a clean install.

I've been trying the other Universe Explorer script mod, but disapointed in how it doesn't allow TP or M6 explorers. The ability to have Mani or Springblossom based explorers is probably the main reason why I would switch. I hate artificial limitations.

Also pondering a "you can have any ship so long as it's a Katana" playthrough, with Katanas as the mk3 traders, galaxy explorers, sector patrol boats, commodity supply ships.

[DrBullwinkle]

How do they keep track of ...

They do not keep track of anything. They randomly explore, which includes repeat explorations of the same sector. So wait long enough, and an explorer will explore that sector again.

A Springblossom would make an excellent explorer.

Katana, too. (Osaka?)