An observation: Star Trek mods. (edited)

[RustiSwordz]

Now that X2 can be heavily modded and scripted how long will it be before the plethora of *yawn* Star Trek ships start appearing.

Everytime modders get their hands on a game and start tearing it to ribbons its always Star Trek that appears first.

Come ON guys there are ships out there a thousand times better than those heaps in ST.

Im not slagging off the talent of the modders, they can do things i can NEVER do, ill never get my brain around all those polygons and X/Y angles and s**t like that, I'm just saying modding choices go beyond Star Trek.

Examples.

Sulaco from Aliens = Argon Titan
Hammerhead Fighter from Space Above Beyond = Argon Nova
Tardis from Dr Who = UFO
Nell from Battle Beyond the Stars = Dragon Corvette

and so on.

[Challenger_STA]

Now that X2 can be heavily modded and scripted how long will it be before the plethora of *yawn* Star Trek ships start appearing.

Everytime modders get their hands on a game and start tearing it to ribbons its always Star Trek that appears first.

Come ON guys there are ships out there a thousand times better than those heaps in ST.

Do something different. Please.

be a self-man ^^
And I wouldn't consider Trek ships heaps.. whatever.
*goes back to modeling his new Akira class*

[Captain Data]

There ARE better ships as in Star Trek, but Star Trek has the best Universe, the best "ideology" etc ...

[djr114]

A Star Trek mod is also a much easier one to do for a full conversion, becuase all the ships fit together instead of being random ships. For individual ships you're right, but for full conversions then things like Star Trek and Babylon 5 will always be better.

[P_J_M]

The main trouble with a ST mod for this game, is that ST has virtually no fighter craft.

X being a fighter led game this is a problem.

I was thinking about Star Wars, but the downside is that there aren't enough seperate sides, to come every race in X.

B5 (The holiest of holies) probably fit's better than any.

BTW I am a modeller, and have modeled B5, Star Wars, and Star Trek ships.

[Captain Data]

Star Trek doesn't need fighter-craft ... it's illogical, but ask Gene R. why he doesn't add fighters to Star Trek.

But for the "Fighter-Class" watch DS9. There are several "fighter-like" Ships avaiable, for example the Shuttles, Runabouts and last but not least the Defiant. The Federation (and the Dominion) are USING Fighters, but they have not that big role like in Star Wars or in B5.

[Challenger_STA]

I wouldn't consider the Defiant a fighter craft.. it has a crew of about 50 after all.. ^^
The Dominion bugs aren't fighters either, as they're manned with about 2 dozen Jem'Hadar.. AFAIK.

[Xenon_Slayer]

it's illogical, but ask Gene R. why he doesn't add fighters to Star Trek.

I hate to bring this up but I think he's dead.

[Captain Data]

I know. Maybe I should add smileys after this type of joke

C'mon Guys, I wanna see big bad mass-battles with dozens of battleships, cruisers etc ...

[P_J_M]

Just out of interest had anybody thought of playing around with the standard parts and making the ship in Xenon_Slayers Sig
^^^^^^^

The Defiant is more of a corvette than anything else.
As Challenger_STA says it has a crew of 50 or so.

I agree with Cpt Data, ST doesn't need fighters when the capital ships are so capable. Small attack craft etc are about it.

The shuttles are sometimes used, but given ST tech they aren't realy fighters again, they are just too powerful.
Especially the runabouts from DS9

[djr114]

I wouldn't consider the Defiant a fighter craft.. it has a crew of about 50 after all.. ^^

Actually the Defiant Class is comparable to a fighter - the USS Defiant is more comparable to a small capital ship (or perhaps a corvette). Confusing thing about DS9, the USS Defiant is a heavily armed and modified Defiant Class ship which are normally much smaller

[Challenger_STA]

There are only two significant differences from a normal Defiant class vessel to the USS Defiant

a) the cloaking device
b) the 'Hero'-effect.

otherwise they're identical.
And it ISN'T comparable to a fighter.. no fighter, how advanced it might be, can carry over 100 Quantum torpedos and a crew of 50+ ^^ not to mention shuttlepods.

If you want size comparisions, I'd estimate the Defiant class ships at around the same size as an Argon M6, in terms of lenght. Just to give you an idea..

Sovereign class vessels (Enterprise-E) should be roughly half the length of an Argon Colossus or Teladi Condor..

[Troj]

*goes back to modeling his new Akira class*

Here here ! oh and a Delta Flyer

[Captain Data]

Okay, lets do a li'll Trek-Science

1. The Defiant isn't exactly a fighter, but it's the closest ship to one. It's fast, it's mainweaponry is forward-only and it can be piloted like a fighter.

2. Try this with a Starship like the Excelsior. Either you'll ram the enemy ship, own ships or you became very old until this ship has turned 180 degrees. (That english sounds funny, but beware, my translator has been damaged !)

3. There is no use for fighters in Star Trek.
Why ? First: Most weapons are beam-like (Phasers, Beams of the Cardassians) ! They don't suffer any negative effects against fast moving targets, they will hit with 90% chance or better, even at full impulse.
That means: A fighter has a very small chance to survive the first minutes of a big battle, and no one will survive until the battle ends.

Torpedos, Disruptors and any other NON-beam-like weapons are not very usefull against fightercraft, because torpedos are too slow, disruptors are fast-firing but slowmoving energy-"particles" etc.

4. STARFLEET don't use fighters, because the main mission is to explore stange new worlds and not to fight all enemies. Thats why, most ships are big, made for longtime missions, and multipurpose. But there are no "Carriers", there is no use for them.

The KLINGONS have lots of smaller craft (B'rel, K'vort etc) and bigger middle-size craft but only a few big ships (Vorcha is just middle-size !). That means, the few big ships are battleships only, no carriers - no fighters !

Romulans are sneaky bastards, they have small, sneaky crafts and bigger ones for battles, but they don't need fighters because they attack like guerillas - SURPRISE

Cardassians use big and bulky ships, they love great fleets of Galors and Keldons but they don't need any fighters because they prefer long battles (and not Alpha-Strike !).

etc etc. The Tactics in Star Trek don't have any need of fighters, and that's why you will not see many of them. The CLOSEST Ship to a fighter is the Delta Flyer or a Shuttle, maybe a Runabout.

[Challenger_STA]

*points to Favor the Bold/Sacrifice of Angels*
Peregrin class ships are the closest you can get in terms of fighters. Type IV phasers, micro torpedos, and a crew of roughly 2.. and size is ~25 meters, which means they're good half as long as X² fighters.

[djr114]

There are only two significant differences from a normal Defiant class vessel to the USS Defiant

a) the cloaking device
b) the 'Hero'-effect.

otherwise they're identical.

Actually the USS Defiant is approximately 50m longer than a normal Defiant class, has only 4 decks instead of 6, has 8 torpedo tubes instead of 4 (or 3 in the second version of the class), has slightly more powerful warp engines, has a cloaking device from a D'Deridex-class Warbird.

The USS Defiant was the prototype which the class was based upon and so had features that did not make it into the final Defiant class.

As for fighters the Type-18 shuttlepod is a multi-role ship that can act as a fighter, and the Danube-Class shuttles were also usable as fighters. Oh and the Delta flyer was sable as a fighter. That's all off the top of my head.

[Storm_Front]

That's all off the top of my head.

It's a wonder you don't have some serious neck problems after carrying all that around.

[DrCBVI]

*points to Favor the Bold/Sacrifice of Angels*
Peregrin class ships are the closest you can get in terms of fighters. Type IV phasers, micro torpedos, and a crew of roughly 2.. and size is ~25 meters, which means they're good half as long as X² fighters.

I'm glad someone brought that up.

For anyone who doesn't remember these, they are similar to the maquis ships.

The Delta Flyer is a possbility, although, I always thought of it as a one-off, not something that would enter into the service.

[esd]

The Delta Flyer is a possbility, although, I always thought of it as a one-off, not something that would enter into the service.

Check Star Trek: Nemesis - the Delta Flyer inspired a new class of shuttle, one of which features at the start of that film.

[Argonaught.]

ST do have fighters...as seen in TNG with Borg cube nearing Earth 3-4 are destroyed....they looked like prob ships (I think it was "The Best of Both Worlds" episode or was it the film) either way they were definitely small fighter craft.