Hyperion Vanguard - ultimate max speed?

glenmcd · Post by **glenmcd** » Sat, 16. Apr 11, 07:29

Does anyone know for sure just how fast a HV one can get in the PP start? I'm looking for the spec set by devs and not just fastest a player has got so far, although that would be useful anyway. I've read about a 250 m/sec HV but maybe with enough tries can it go further? 236.7 is my fastest so far.

A5PECT · Post by **A5PECT** » Sat, 16. Apr 11, 08:01

I remember hearing about a 280 m/s Hyperion. Never done the start myself, though.

pjknibbs · Post by **pjknibbs** » Sat, 16. Apr 11, 11:04

Just install a Turbo Boost Mk1 and the max tune you get from that start is left in the dust--a HV will do 405m/s when boosted!

zyriel · Post by **zyriel** » Sat, 16. Apr 11, 11:43

KloHunt3r wrote:I remember hearing about a 280 m/s Hyperion. Never done the start myself, though.

well the one you heard it from probably did not tell the truth
as 260 is theoretical maximum for HV without turbo

Eisenkalle · Post by **Eisenkalle** » Sat, 16. Apr 11, 13:37

Read my signiture for further details.

Albeit you can use a standard Hyperion and fit in an afterburner (bonuspack script!).

zyriel · Post by **zyriel** » Sat, 16. Apr 11, 16:07

Very nice catch Eisenkalle

Eisenkalle · Post by **Eisenkalle** » Sat, 16. Apr 11, 17:15

zyriel wrote:Very nice catch Eisenkalle

Cheers, hope you enjoy it.

zyriel · Post by **zyriel** » Sat, 16. Apr 11, 17:23

Eisenkalle wrote:
zyriel wrote:Very nice catch Eisenkalle
Cheers, hope you enjoy it.

not using other players saves really but thanks for offer

)

glenmcd · Post by **glenmcd** » Sun, 17. Apr 11, 06:55

Well it sounds like the absolute max is between 250 and 280, with 250 being the most likely. The minimum engine tunings seems to be 12 ( 148.8 ), and if 250 with 27 engine tunings is the max then this makes for a population in the random field of 16. Considering programmers love of using rounded binary numbers (16 = 2^4), this seems likely. But you could also take into account that the Egosoft devs have a higher interest in rounded decimal numbers than the average dev. If this is the case here, then you'd expect a population for random field to be 20, meaning 31 engine tunings to be the max and 12 still as minimum. This in turn makes for a max speed of 277.3 or 277.4 depending on how ES do the rounding.

Yesterday I completed a set of macros to make the search for the fastest HV an overnight process (while I sleep). It's processing around 850 per night, at just over 32 seconds per loop. I got a 243.5 yesterday while still working on the macros, and another 243.5 in overnight attempts. I guess the 250 will come up sooner or later.

Judging by the apparent total number of attempts across all players reporting here, on average at least one of these would have higher than 250.3 by now if this was possible. I base this on a figure of 3000 attempts for one occurance of 250.3, and 3700 attempts for an occurance of anything higher than 250.3. 27 tunings (250.3 speed) max also coincides with the findings of someone that apparently looked inside the code in memory for this info (thanks for the link Eisenkalle). I'll keep running the overnight tests for a while but I'm not expecting to get anything beyond 250.3. I will certainly be posting here if I do

pjknibbs · Post by **pjknibbs** » Sun, 17. Apr 11, 07:40

Wouldn't it be easier to just look at the Mission Director script that handles the Poisoned Paranid start mission to find out what the maximum possible specs of that ship are?

dillpickle · Post by **dillpickle** » Sun, 17. Apr 11, 07:54

The Hyperion Vanguard has a base speed of 67.6 m/s to which normally a maximum of 15 engine tunings can be applied (at 6.6766....7 m/s per tuning) gibing a normal max speed of 169.1

The Poisoned Paranid Hyperion has exactly 12 engine tunings added, meaning it can be created with a minimum of 12 tunings, and a maximum of 27 engine tunings if the ship had it's maximum of 15 tunings to start with.

This gives you a theoretical top speed of 250.3 m/s.

No matter how time you waste on testing and theorizing, this is how it is and you will never get one faster!!

glenmcd · Post by **glenmcd** » Sun, 17. Apr 11, 08:12

dillpickle wrote:The Hyperion Vanguard has a base speed of 67.6 m/s to which normally a maximum of 15 engine tunings can be applied (at 6.6766....7 m/s per tuning) gibing a normal max speed of 169.1

The Poisoned Paranid Hyperion has exactly 12 engine tunings added, meaning it can be created with a minimum of 12 tunings, and a maximum of 27 engine tunings if the ship had it's maximum of 15 tunings to start with.

This gives you a theoretical top speed of 250.3 m/s.

No matter how time you waste on testing and theorizing, this is how it is and you will never get one faster!!

Sounds good. Can you provide your source please? Maybe a link? Filename?

glenmcd · Post by **glenmcd** » Sun, 17. Apr 11, 08:46

pjknibbs wrote:Wouldn't it be easier to just look at the Mission Director script that handles the Poisoned Paranid start mission to find out what the maximum possible specs of that ship are?

Thanks, I missed your post the first time.

dillpickle · Post by **dillpickle** » Sun, 17. Apr 11, 08:52

glenmcd wrote:
dillpickle wrote:The Hyperion Vanguard has a base speed of 67.6 m/s to which normally a maximum of 15 engine tunings can be applied (at 6.6766....7 m/s per tuning) gibing a normal max speed of 169.1

The Poisoned Paranid Hyperion has exactly 12 engine tunings added, meaning it can be created with a minimum of 12 tunings, and a maximum of 27 engine tunings if the ship had it's maximum of 15 tunings to start with.

This gives you a theoretical top speed of 250.3 m/s.

No matter how time you waste on testing and theorizing, this is how it is and you will never get one faster!!
Sounds good. Can you provide your source please? Maybe a link? Filename?

3.05 Gamestart Missions.xml in the director folder.

glenmcd · Post by **glenmcd** » Sun, 17. Apr 11, 08:56

dillpickle wrote:3.05 Gamestart Missions.xml in the director folder.

Perfect! Thanks for that, I'm sure that other files in that area will be most enlightening also.

glenmcd · Post by **glenmcd** » Sun, 17. Apr 11, 10:08

Indeed very interesting stuff in there. To anyone not familiar with what the X3 Editor 2 can help you find:

[ external image ]

And a link to where you can download it:

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=244283

Thanks to those that eventually worked out what I needed

Eisenkalle · Post by **Eisenkalle** » Sun, 17. Apr 11, 12:23

There was a thread about exactly this topic (maximum tunings). The OP of this thread also performed many hundreds of reloads. Summarizing nothing goes beyond 27 engine tunings.

Following my sig-link I explained, that I did 300 reloads. BUT I got the 250.3 m/s HV at reload no. 30! The other reloads were performed, to find a combination with outstanding speed AND some more STEERING tunings.

I don't know about the other performers

, but my initial goal was to get my hands on a maxed out engine and steering tuned HV. The later was the real problem, causing this many reloads. After all the "higher" steering was nothing more than this:

steering (tunings) times achived

6.2 (18 max. standard) alotoftimesX

...
6.5 (19) 5x
6.7 (20) 3x
6.9 (21) 2x
7.1 (22) 1x
7.3 (23) 1x
7.6 (24) 1x
7.8 (25) 1x

These figures are from my reload attempts.

Here is the thread I mentioned:

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=272056

glenmcd · Post by **glenmcd** » Wed, 20. Apr 11, 05:18

Eisenkalle wrote:Following my sig-link I explained, that I did 300 reloads. BUT I got the 250.3 m/s HV at reload no. 30! The other reloads were performed, to find a combination with outstanding speed AND some more STEERING tunings.

I don't know about the other performers , but my initial goal was to get my hands on a maxed out engine and steering tuned HV. The later was the real problem, causing this many reloads. After all the "higher" steering was nothing more than this:

steering (tunings) times achived

6.2 (18 max. standard) alotoftimesX
...
6.5 (19) 5x
6.7 (20) 3x
6.9 (21) 2x
7.1 (22) 1x
7.3 (23) 1x
7.6 (24) 1x
7.8 (25) 1x

These figures are from my reload attempts.

Here is the thread I mentioned:

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=272056

After roughly 4,000 attempts I finally got a 250.3. This was combined with 228 m/sec on the Perseus which is equal highest I've had. But like you, the steering was 6.2.

Flozem · Post by **Flozem** » Wed, 20. Apr 11, 07:26

I settled for 220 on the HVG and 218 on the AP after reloading for two hours (it was the third reload btw that gave me this setup).... the HVG came with 5 marines of which 1 five star, 1 four star and 1 three star (fight) marines with lots of training. So I guess the latter makes up.

There's only a small difference between 220 and 250 anyway and it's barely noticable. And eventually I'll be cruising around in my Shrike again. Might have been more useful to upgrade my Advanced Perseus, though I'll have a Spitfyre and an Xperimental Shuttle too eventually.

nponoBegHuk · Post by **nponoBegHuk** » Fri, 22. Apr 11, 05:12

Code: Select all

                            <create_ship name="this.reward" dockobject="this.dock" typename="SS_SH_P_M6_ADV" race="player">
                              <equipment loadout="default">
                                <ware typename="SS_WARE_TECH213" exact="12"/>
                                <ware typename="SS_WARE_TECH246" exact="8"/>
                              </equipment>
                            </create_ship>
                            <create_ship name="this.reward2" dockobject="this.dock" typename="SS_SH_P_M3_ADV" race="player">
                              <equipment loadout="default">
                                <ware typename="SS_WARE_TECH213" exact="8"/>
                                <ware typename="SS_WARE_TECH246" exact="5"/>
                              </equipment>
                            </create_ship>

This chunk of code found in the game files indicates that the max number of rudder optimizations on hyperion can be up to 26 (18 default + 8extra). That's a 250.3m/s Hyperion which turns at 8.0 rpm turn rate.

The other ship you get in as a reward is an Advanced Perseus with a max of 20 (12 base + 8 extra) engine tunings and 17 (12 base + 5 extra) rudder optimizations. That is 285m/s ship with 76.68 rpm turn rate