[MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War V. 7.2

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ddrulez
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Re: [WIP - MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War

Post by ddrulez »

Here is a link to steam forum. A Dev replyed to the "To save" or " empty and dead" matter.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/392160/d ... 735/?ctp=6
EGO_zav [Entwickler] Vor 9 Stunden
We are experimenting with how much warfare we should allow without making it to extreme. I take this as feedback that you guys vote for MORE. We will do that then.
I hope they will fix this soon.
cyrusjackson
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Re: [WIP - MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War

Post by cyrusjackson »

ddrulez wrote: Thu, 6. Dec 18, 01:29 Here is a link to steam forum. A Dev replyed to the "To save" or " empty and dead" matter.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/392160/d ... 735/?ctp=6
EGO_zav [Entwickler] Vor 9 Stunden
We are experimenting with how much warfare we should allow without making it to extreme. I take this as feedback that you guys vote for MORE. We will do that then.
I hope they will fix this soon.
There you go:
Quoted from steam forum
https://steamcommunity.com/app/392160/d ... 794393975/
Originally posted by Evil^Space^King:
Please fix the lack of war that crushes the economy later in game.

EGO_zav [developer] 2 hours ago
Work in progress... Beta probably tomorrow.

:D Egosoft is working hard apparently. Pretty sure we can also expect a turret fix soon.
BlackRain
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Re: [WIP - MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War

Post by BlackRain »

Either way, I am sure I can find something to tweak. If I don't need to, then great!
ddrulez
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Re: [WIP - MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War

Post by ddrulez »

BlackRain wrote: Thu, 6. Dec 18, 01:55 Either way, I am sure I can find something to tweak. If I don't need to, then great!
Hey thanks for you work here.
I think there is room for you to tweak it after the patch. You can look into what they changed. Would be easier for you for sure.

I do not expect they will do us the favor to give us the ability to select how difficult we want our experience.
A mod is probably still needed for it.

Thanks again for you work!
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Informer
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Re: [WIP - MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War

Post by Informer »

Thanks for this quick mod m8. Much appreciated.
I did a new start and indeed much more enemy's to fight. :) Also did try on a my latest save game, and indeed it takes time, because not that much enemy's seen yet. But only played that session for only a small hour.

I am trying out more tomorrow, I need some sleep. :)

Greetzzz
Information is power. But like all power, there are those who want to keep it for themselves (Aaron Swartz you will live forever)
Osbot
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Re: [WIP - MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War

Post by Osbot »

BlackRain wrote: Thu, 6. Dec 18, 01:55 Either way, I am sure I can find something to tweak. If I don't need to, then great!
Who knows. I would expect them to do something like, "let's just change the faction relations", instead of doing something like "Let's crank up the AI raiding hostile sectors".

Which is, I think, the biggest issue now. Editing a save, and starting an actual war or two between the main AI factions, pretty much results in a cold war with fleets camping either end of the jump gates at a border and nothing actually happening, but hapless traders and miners going "Hmm, there is an Argon fleet on the other side? Sounds like a good idea to just nose my ship through here, hey look everything is OH GOD IT BURNNNS MAKE IT STAA......"
Gideon_Prime
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Re: [WIP - MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War

Post by Gideon_Prime »

Downloaded the mod and started a new game. It *definitely* makes the Xenon/Kahak tougher, as they haven't been wiped out in my game yet and have relatively massive fleets inside their systems. However, they still aren't attacking or coming through their respective entrance gates. So, the mod appears to be working in that it fixed the NPC AIs being wiped out, but it isn't spurring conflict at this point in my map. I'll keep updated with progress.

EDIT: So, something weird happened. I went back into the Xenon systems to initiate some action, and ... Everything is gone again. Aside from a few defense platforms, there still isn't much in the systems. There *are* more ships/small fleets compared to my previous game, but there's still something fishy going on. They ships never left the system and weren't destroyed. I had satellites on the "safe" side of the gate, and they never came through. So, perhaps the Argon/Teladi AI went though and cleaned them out again. Not sure. Its basically back at the same point I was in my previous save.
Last edited by Gideon_Prime on Thu, 6. Dec 18, 05:54, edited 2 times in total.
DuckSoup
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Re: [WIP - MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War

Post by DuckSoup »

I've been playing around for this a bit starting a new game. I noticed the initial bunch of enemies at the start is a bit larger and the fighting tends to last a bit longer, but after a few hours, things die down and no one is really "Attacking" anyone. Everyone just stays huddled on their side.

I do notice more ships though.
ceecee
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Re: [WIP - MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War

Post by ceecee »

I feel like these problems may also be dependent on things like FactionGoal_Invade_Space. If you look through this script you can see a wide net of related effectors being input from different scripts for goals and subgoals, including some things that suggest the player's war mission actions may play a part in triggering events (see: recon results).

For fixing the Xenon and Kh'aak, likely increasing their numbers will be necessary as a first step, but also figuring out how to manipulate the faction goals to provoke invasions more often will likely be key. When they patch this tomorrow or the day after (as seen on the Steam board), we'll be able to compare the before/after in these files if you extract them as a backup to see how the original writers go about changing the universe aggressiveness. I'm really glad they've at least recognized and responded to this so quickly.
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StoneLegionYT
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Re: [WIP - MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War

Post by StoneLegionYT »

Would making Kha'ak and Xenon Neutral help solve them from devouring each other? Both factions mean nothing to use besides the enemy and yet their fighting each other making our lives 100 times easier and wasting CPU on fighting each other.
BlackRain
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Re: [WIP - MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War

Post by BlackRain »

I will look through the faction files over the weekend. As i said, all i did was increase ships for now. As far as i know the game should have them attack though. I will look more into it
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Re: [WIP - MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War

Post by BlackRain »

By the way, even if the faction invasion logic is difficult to change I can still do invasions most likely through directed fleets. I would have to test this though. Does anyone know where I can find the macros for the different sectors, zones and clusters, etc.? Inwould also need to know the names of each in game. Ill ask around
Tubuk
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Re: [WIP - MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War

Post by Tubuk »

Hi there,

maybe deserters could reduce the need of too large fleets. If military ships spend time in Xenon/neutral sectors, some of these ships would desert to be criminals or to join the Scale Plate Pact.

This would weaken the stronger factions. Ship production would increase, to replace deserters and the damage the rogues would do. Xenon/Kha'ak would be relieved and do havok on their own.
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Informer
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Re: [WIP - MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War

Post by Informer »

Hey BlackRain,

Did play some more hours with your mod, and in my saved game there is still not that much action. Maybe I am just in the wrong sectors, or maybe it just takes even more longer using a save game instead of starting a new game.
But will test and look some more around in the universe :)

Greetzzz
Information is power. But like all power, there are those who want to keep it for themselves (Aaron Swartz you will live forever)
jmattspartacus2
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Re: [WIP - MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War

Post by jmattspartacus2 »

Or you just throw your fleet at one of the major factions and watch the economy come to life (sort of) as they try to rebuild and buy things from everyone else. It works for a while until all the others over produce and the economy gets clogged again.
ceecee
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Re: [WIP - MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War

Post by ceecee »

BlackRain wrote: Thu, 6. Dec 18, 11:40 I will look through the faction files over the weekend. As i said, all i did was increase ships for now. As far as i know the game should have them attack though. I will look more into it
Yeah, since Egosoft is planning on changing the war behavior in a patch soon, the patch will likely act as a tutorial for modifying those files, should be very helpful for seeing which parts of these fairly complex scripts must be edited or potentially even rewritten.

For the maps, its probably just in cat2, but I don't know where the formal names are, all references are just to standardized IDs like C01S03_Region001_macro.
maps/XU_ep2_universe/galaxy.xml
maps/XU_ep2_universe/sechighways.xml
maps/XU_ep2_universe/sectors.xml
maps/XU_ep2_universe/zonehighways.xml
maps/XU_ep2_universe/zones.xml
Perkel
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Re: [WIP - MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War

Post by Perkel »

Hi blackrain.
Do you have any plans to modify prices of ships and missions ?

Prices between S and M class also don't make sense.
Those are supposed to be completely different class while getting small fighter costs more or less the same as M miner.

Missions rewards also don't make sense. You can buy M class ship for doing very quick mission like repairing satellites.
Hell even buying one S class ship shouldn't be that easy and should require few missions.
aerojet029
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Re: [WIP - MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War

Post by aerojet029 »

after looking at the files you posted:

Quota jobs are posted based on 3 criteria
" At the moment, jobs are mostly set to have enough numbers to cover only the space that they start with, this coverage stretching as the faction expands.
Jobs marked _exp can expand past the faction's starting territory, but only up to a point. These allow a faction to expand to a point largely defined here.
Nature of reinforcement resulting from expansion is also largely defined by these jobs.
Jobs marked _comp are capable of occupying a relatively small volume of space in numbers that are more significant than normal.
These tend to resist compression, tending to concentrate as a faction contracts. "

one problem I have found is it is easy for fleets to get distracted. For example the Ka'ak "shipyard" or base or whatever it is called can supposedly spawn anywhere. the one I found was in Paranid space. The issue is that the base is marked hostile and has (seemingly) infinite health. Meaning the majority of Parinid ships are completely rendered useless. A fix would be to turn the base into a neutral faction or owner less maybe and and keep the Ka'ak spawns.

2 things limit a faction (except the Ka'ak which based on this job list seem to just spawn in to harass the universe) the shipyards/warfs producing ship (and therefore the resources to build those ships) and the Quota listed by the job list. It seems each job is for different parts of the AI's "strategy"


based on the concept in the open notes:

Expansion
these jobs produce ships to invade other territories
their expansions limit is defined
How they are reinforced is defined
Compression
Bulk forces mean't to occupy and protect allied space
as the amount of friendly space goes down these "act" in increasing effect.

most of this are opinions but I believe based on some of the notes and the way the job list is defined it looks like every faction starts with about 7 sectors and was meant to be able to "dynamically" take over different sectors by choice. It seems the AI is artificially held back leaving room for the player to either progress the war missions (most missions broken atm) which seem to force the factions (other than Xenon and Ka'ak) to hate each other. then invading forces would be artificially held back so as not to get out of hand.

the fix I think needs to be done is those quota jobs (especially the civilian ship jobs) needs to be dynamic and not static focused on special faction priorities. For example the Teladi are all about trade. they should focus on civillian jobs but if they start to lose a sector or lose stations, they should shift their "focus" to Comp forces.

You could reference a variable "quota" and then develop a new XML script to define different parameters and different weights of effect based on factions. then give the player an in game slider (for performance reasons) on the scale. low medium high insane? This is all speculative and would like to hear other opinions.
BlackRain
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Re: [WIP - MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War

Post by BlackRain »

aerojet029 wrote: Thu, 6. Dec 18, 21:38 after looking at the files you posted:

Quota jobs are posted based on 3 criteria
" At the moment, jobs are mostly set to have enough numbers to cover only the space that they start with, this coverage stretching as the faction expands.
Jobs marked _exp can expand past the faction's starting territory, but only up to a point. These allow a faction to expand to a point largely defined here.
Nature of reinforcement resulting from expansion is also largely defined by these jobs.
Jobs marked _comp are capable of occupying a relatively small volume of space in numbers that are more significant than normal.
These tend to resist compression, tending to concentrate as a faction contracts. "

one problem I have found is it is easy for fleets to get distracted. For example the Ka'ak "shipyard" or base or whatever it is called can supposedly spawn anywhere. the one I found was in Paranid space. The issue is that the base is marked hostile and has (seemingly) infinite health. Meaning the majority of Parinid ships are completely rendered useless. A fix would be to turn the base into a neutral faction or owner less maybe and and keep the Ka'ak spawns.

2 things limit a faction (except the Ka'ak which based on this job list seem to just spawn in to harass the universe) the shipyards/warfs producing ship (and therefore the resources to build those ships) and the Quota listed by the job list. It seems each job is for different parts of the AI's "strategy"


based on the concept in the open notes:

Expansion
these jobs produce ships to invade other territories
their expansions limit is defined
How they are reinforced is defined
Compression
Bulk forces mean't to occupy and protect allied space
as the amount of friendly space goes down these "act" in increasing effect.

most of this are opinions but I believe based on some of the notes and the way the job list is defined it looks like every faction starts with about 7 sectors and was meant to be able to "dynamically" take over different sectors by choice. It seems the AI is artificially held back leaving room for the player to either progress the war missions (most missions broken atm) which seem to force the factions (other than Xenon and Ka'ak) to hate each other. then invading forces would be artificially held back so as not to get out of hand.

the fix I think needs to be done is those quota jobs (especially the civilian ship jobs) needs to be dynamic and not static focused on special faction priorities. For example the Teladi are all about trade. they should focus on civillian jobs but if they start to lose a sector or lose stations, they should shift their "focus" to Comp forces.

You could reference a variable "quota" and then develop a new XML script to define different parameters and different weights of effect based on factions. then give the player an in game slider (for performance reasons) on the scale. low medium high insane? This is all speculative and would like to hear other opinions.
This isn't exactly true. Let me explain

Code: Select all

<job id="argon_destroyer_patrol_l_comp" name="{20204,3301}" comment="compression">
    <modifiers commandeerable="true"/>
    <orders>
      <order order="Patrol" default="true">
        <param name="range" value="class.zone"/>
      </order>
    </orders>
    <category faction="argon" tags="[factionlogic, military, destroyer]" size="ship_l"/>
    <quota galaxy="3" maxgalaxy="12" cluster="3"/>
    <location class="galaxy" macro="xu_ep2_universe_macro" faction="argon" relation="self" comparison="exact"/>
    <environment buildatshipyard="true"/>
    <ship>
      <select faction="argon" tags="[military, destroyer]" size="ship_l"/>
      <loadout>
        <level min="0.4" max="1.0"/>
      </loadout>
      <owner exact="argon" overridenpc="true"/>
    </ship>
  </job>
In this first one here, where it says job id, that is just the name they gave this type of job. Although it says compression, the name doesn't matter. The tags define that it will be used by factionlogic so all of the ships are used by the factionlogic script. The different between this one and the other (expansion one) is the patrol range. This compression ship is set to patrol a "zone" while the expansion ship is told to patrol a "sector". This is the difference here and it tells the first ships to go from zone to zone but no more, and the second to go from sector to sector. Also, the first ship there has no wingmen but the second does.

Code: Select all

 <job id="argon_frigate_patrol_m_sector_exp" name="{20204,2901}" comment="each sector, expansion">
    <modifiers commandeerable="false"/>
    <orders>
      <order order="Patrol" default="true">
        <param name="range" value="class.sector"/>
      </order>
    </orders>
    <category faction="argon" tags="[factionlogic, military, frigate]" size="ship_m"/>
    <quota galaxy="44" sector="1"/>
    <location class="galaxy" macro="xu_ep2_universe_macro" faction="argon" relation="self" comparison="exact"/>
    <environment buildatshipyard="true"/>
    <ship>
      <select faction="argon" tags="[military, frigate]" size="ship_m"/>
      <loadout>
        <level min="0.4" max="1.0"/>
      </loadout>
      <owner exact="argon" overridenpc="true"/>
    </ship>
    <subordinates>
      <subordinate job="argon_fighter_escort_s_frigate"/>
    </subordinates>
  </job>
aerojet029
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Re: [WIP - MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War

Post by aerojet029 »

I touched on a few different concepts and the part about expansion and compression came from a quote from the xml script notes. Those notes in the jobs.xml are where i believe it was created in the opening design talk about the game and how it was going to be structured. in the way you have explained it (and correct me if I am wrong) is that they are created through this job, given a tag (Expansion and Compression) and then the factionlogic script takes over how those created units will behave?

interesting

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