X-Verse Fleet Fest I

Wildjames · Post by **Wildjames** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 02:06

I'll pull out for Aro. Regardless of what goodies are or are not provided. He posted first. He deserves it.

Algoran · Post by **Algoran** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 02:08

Good man! Extra 10 mil for Wildjames next time perhaps?

Oh, you had the heavy osprey fleet. That was seriously intimidating. Almost sad to lose it..

GCU Grey Area · Post by **GCU Grey Area** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 02:17

autosave22 wrote:- Who is going to watch M4s pound on a station for two hours?

In defense of the king flagship idea, some of your ships could be set to 'protect' the flagship. I'm sure it would involve no more scripting than telling all ships to attack a remote station. Other ships even be configured to attack the oppositions flagship.

And yes, death of the flagship should be the end of the fight: Who is going to be interested in watching stragglers wander around looking for each other? If the fleet is decapitated (no pun), the other combatants should be considered too demoralized to continue fighting.

It's essentially the same idea, just with a couple of minor differences - Orbital Weapon Platforms are classified as stationary M1's in the game & have equivalent shields & hull to conventional capital ships. They are also well armed (the big ones can be fitted with 48 guns & use an extensive range of missiles too), which means a ragged mob of M4s are extremely unlikely to last anywhere near 2 hours.

The reason I prefer OWPs rather than a capital ship as the critical object to defend (i.e. the king) are twofold:
1. being stationary they'll always be behind the fleet, in the proper position for a king.
2. using capital ships as kings means there would be an inevitable tendency for people to pick the best shielded ships for their flagship, probably Osakas for everyone (who would be daft enough in those circumstances to pick an Akuma or Python with 1/2 the shielding). Think it would be a bit dull if every fleet used exactly the same flagship.

Deadbeat_Spinn · Post by **Deadbeat_Spinn** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 02:17

Wildjames, I salute you. I must admit I wanted to see how a Heavy Osprey fleet did in battle because it was one of the few unique fleet layouts that had been submitted.

I was planning on pulling my fleet, you just beat me to the punch. I'm going to review all postings in this thread to make sure no other fleet submission was missed or overlooked.

Out of all fairness, the perk that Wildjames should receive for XFF II is this, you are allowed two fleets for the loss of a fleet that did not compete in battle.

Wildjames · Post by **Wildjames** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 02:31

I admit I was looking forward to the Ospreys, but I think they would have lost against the masses of M3's or M4's. Either way, I have plans for XFFII.

Personally, I think people should discuss the rules for XFFII after this one is over. We have no idea how the fleets are going to match up or how the AI will respond.

Alex Vanderbilt · Post by **Alex Vanderbilt** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 03:36

Wildjames wrote:I admit I was looking forward to the Ospreys, but I think they would have lost against the masses of M3's or M4's. Either way, I have plans for XFFII. Personally, I think people should discuss the rules for XFFII after this one is over. We have no idea how the fleets are going to match up or how the AI will respond.

I don't think so. At least the normal Ospreys are rather strong against Fighters and even as a Player you have to use dirty tricks to outpace the turrets.

AV

Yeah, I know that I'm twisting the knife in the wound. ^^

Wildjames · Post by **Wildjames** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 04:05

I wonder if the Ospreys would accidentally blast each other with the PBGs. If they got too close while attacking an enemy, the PBG area effect might cause problems. Again, it depends on how the AI handles it.

@AV:
The turrets might be able to take care of some of the fighters, but I doubt they would be able to stand against large amounts. I expect it would be really close. We'll see how the Katana group holds out. Although, they don't have the same equipment.

Aro · Post by **Aro** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 04:37

Just finalized it last night. If the prices on the .ru site factor in shields being removed then my numbers are off and would need editing.

Nobody needs to drop out, will check the numbers and edit my submission post anyway.

Wildjames · Post by **Wildjames** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 04:45

Um, Aro, to make the competition parallel, 32 fleets are needed. Since there are already 32 fleets, not including yours, someone needs to drop out. Or we'll have to reorganize it (as Deadbeat_Spin pointed out earlier).

Edit: Upon looking back at Deadbeat's post, it is possible to have 33 fleets. I guess the final say is up to TJ though. It doesn't really matter either way for me. From the sound of if, it seems that you, Aro, have put more time into it than I have.

Oh, for the record, Aro did post about his fleet on page 44. It kinda got swamped by another discussion.

X2-Eliah · Post by **X2-Eliah** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 05:24

Le Baron wrote:Question:

-Pleco itself with the 200Mj shield it comes with 308390cr
Isn't the 308.390Cr. the price w/o shield?
Because in german ship lists the original price would more or less match exactly above price + the price for 1x200MJ shield + a little software?!

Just to be on the save side how I calculate the TM?!

The site eng.x3tc.ru shows the ship's price as it is available in the shipyards. All TMs come with 1x200MJ shields by default - which are already into that cost (as do all M1s, M2s, M7s, M6s). Atleast that's how I understood. Even the rules stated that when you buy a ship, you must take the price of that site and remove the price of the shield the S version (or the 200MJ shield for ships without versions) it comes with. Since I want to remove 1 200MJ shield and then add 1x 200MJ shield, it comes back on, doesn't it?

Anyways, I did all calcs through eng.x3tc.ru, so they ought to be safe

, but of course one can never be too sure.

Edit - dang, Solano price is wrong indeed. Well, I assume A re-calc on the last day is acceptable?

Aro · Post by **Aro** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 05:26

Meant someone doesn't need to drop out, can just add this my fleet to the next fight.

Or to be evil make 10 of the panthers with 5 kestrel in each and do some random 'survive this fleet!' tests

Wildjames · Post by **Wildjames** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 05:38

Why don't we just wait and let TJ decide. I'll PM him telling him about the situation. With all the talk going on about the rules, we might not be able to field the same fleets.

Deleted User · Post by **Deleted User** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 05:40

It won't be operational for XFF I but hopefully I'll have a DLable spreadsheet of some sort designed up for us to use for fleet pricing in future XFF's

I plan to make this as easy to use as possible, just a tiny DL that contains the average price of all ships, missiles and weapons in the game. I thought some nice touches would be a "Base Price" for each ship that would provide the user with an easily multiplied number for fleet building. For example a SHrike would have it's Average In Game price listed , followed by a price for the Shrike with full shields as well. This way users can use either number depending on whether or not they wish to sacrifice shields for cargo or just have an easily referenced Ship w/ Max Shields price.

I want to keep it as simple as possible and the idea is that the sheet is used along side the game or another reference site that has more detailed info on each ship and missile. Basically what I want to create is a handy "Fleet Builders Price List" that we can use for XFF (or anything!) to make all this pricing confusion go away.

Of course I'd want to create something that was complete enough to be used as an official price guide, and also compatible enough that everyone could DL and use it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Just PM me!

Ohhh so excited for XFF I, I can't wait!

X2-Eliah · Post by **X2-Eliah** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 05:49

Okay, looks like I indeed had put down the Solano pricing wrongly - so I just recalculated all costs.

However, I assumed that All ships listed on the site are with the price of the shield it comes with already!

Ship prices are calculated as the average buying price (taken from http://eng.x3tc.ru) of the shield that comes with the S version of the ship subtracted from the S versions price. (Capital ships only have one version so the price will be calculated from that value).

Therefore my pricing for the Pleco and the Solano - when I wrote the price of the solano, I had meant the list price - 1MJ shield price. I updated the list to be more clear on this, but a quick calc shows that in the end, the result is the same.

If eng.x3tc.ru shows ship prices without shields, well then, that ought to have been said in the first post and the quote I showed ought to have not been there, right?

Edit: Also, I seem to be getting a lot of flak for my fleet choice.
I'd like to remind you that at no point the rules forbid anyone from using the following: Solano; Any TM; Mass Drivers; PBGs, PSGs, the Panther, Springblossom . Nor do the rules state that there is any upper limit on any single ship class, or a requirement for a 'balanced' fleet. If what I did is what you call a 'fighterspam' (to which I respectfully disagree, I see little difference between this and certain other fleets with ~120 fighters and a carrier) and if it is unwanted, it should have been said so, and I wouldn't have wasted my time thinking this up. Again, I did not create this for 'spamming's sake, I schemed up the fleet with the intention of it having the firepower to take out opposition, the numbers to survive well-placed flak shots or PPC bullet hail, and the agility to evade opponent fighters.

At the moment it appears to me that a number of people are acting as if I have broken a sacred rule. Need I remind that since we are using the official X3:TC pricing lists and only the ships that can be bought in the game, this is a perfectly valid option of what you would expect? Indeed, this reveals that the Solanos are too good for what they cost, and TMs are dirt cheap, but I can't see how I am guilty of using cheap, good value ships instead of ones that are more expensive and worse in most aspects.

For the record, I am completely not fond of the fact that there are entrants with 300+ TPs, for example, as that is indeed a focus on spamming for spamming's sakes. On the other hand, it does annoy me to see my own name in that list as well, for reasons stated above.

Wildjames · Post by **Wildjames** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 07:46

I mostly agree with you Eliah. I think that you shouldn't be lambasted for your choice. It is a viable choice. On the other hand, I think spamming should be allowed. If they want to spam a bunch of TS's, let them. They'll probably get smashed to bits anyway. Leave the ship choice up to the participants. As long as they stay within the limits, I'm happy.

Tenlar Scarflame · Post by **Tenlar Scarflame** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 08:42

Re: large fleet numbers, I don't blame anyone for trying out a zerg fleet, it's a totally respectable and viable strategy.

The only concern I have is that the battle result will be unfairly skewed, not because the strategy is "cheap", but because the game might not be able to correctly handle that many fighting ships.

Re: pulling fleets to maintain 32, why? We could easily invoke the runner-up policy. As long as there's an even number of fleets, and we have TJ's assurance that he'll build a fleet if there's an odd number come tomorrow... uh... today.

Actually, I should probably go to bed...

Spychotic · Post by **Spychotic** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 09:02

If it is being done tournament style, then the number of fleets needs to be a power of 2, otherwise somewhere a fleet gets promoted through a stage without having to fight (because there's no-one to fight against).

Draw the tree and see.

And personally, I don't see an issue with TS/TP spam. Such a fleet won't have a hope in hell against a real military force. Gone in the first stage.

Spike

Deleted User · Post by **Deleted User** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 09:05

well either way, we were given a budget cap and told to make each fighter have a docking bay, so a TM/Solano fleet would make perfect sense. I've already implemented a fleet idea I saw on here into my game! Emperorjons Springy Fleet! After seeing what a wing of decent M6s could do to a traditional fleet I decided to invest in an assorted M6 wing! I have 4 Centaurs and 4 H-Hydra all in a wing patrolling one of the busier hot spots and they stomp ace!!!

Just goes to show that XFF is not only a fun and friendly competition, but you can learn something from it too! Next I may try X2Elijah's idea and set up a TM fleet to gaurd another zone. And soon I'll be able to see how my Shrikes and Falcon Haulers will hold up in real IS combat!

Technojerk36 · Post by **Technojerk36** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 09:46

I would like to apologize to Aro for missing out his fleet.

Both Aro and Wildjames have offered to drop out. I didn't really want to kick anyone out so I came up with a (not so) brilliant idea. How about we run another sort of teaser match between Aro and Wildjames to see who gets the place? This way both their fleets get to see some combat. (If this is unfair in some way, please let me know. It's still morning and my brain isn't fully awake).

Also, there seems to be a huge discussion about spam fleets. Come on guys, it's just a game

Wildjames · Post by **Wildjames** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 10:00

Technojerk36 wrote:I didn't really want to kick anyone out so I came up with a (not so) brilliant idea. How about we run another sort of teaser match between Aro and Wildjames to see who gets the place? This way both their fleets get to see some combat. (If this is unfair in some way, please let me know. It's still morning and my brain isn't fully awake).

It's fine by me if it's fine by Aro. Solves the problem completely.

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X-Verse Fleet Fest I