Dear Egosoft Developers: A plea...

[dannyxx30]

I think the point would be that while Egosoft are developing this multiplayer mode or VR mode, it takes development time away from the main game.

I think it would actually be a lot of fun to have a 1v1 local combat simulation, not replacing what we have already, but adding to it as a separate mode that could be selected in the menu. Not try to simulate the entire universe, just a single sector at most, where two players can test out their dogfighting and fleet command abilities against each other. Play around with ship balance, see what works best, be a fleet commander and ship commander at the same time. I'd pay for a DLC like that! I think a lot of other players would be happy to have something like this as well. It would not be something to replace the current X4 game, I think it would greatly add to it as a separate mode though.

Although I personally would prefer if the above was in the game in place of Ventures.

[mr.WHO]

If i want a complex MMOG i would go back to a game that sounds like a name of a girl
I like to SP in X4, but only sometimes i would like to interact with other PPL or take a VR-Headset (i do not like it to wear it more as 1-2h, but 3D it great)

Dude, read this topic again, especially CBJ reply - having VR is not "small thing" from developer viewpoint and it's even more work intense for MP.
All of this becasue you would want to use VR/MP for short time, from time to time.
It's like building a big house, but you will live in it only one day per year, yet you have to still pay for maintenance.
Why risking Egosoft financial stability and reputation (they have no experience with MP games) if there are plenty other MP games avaliable on the market?

Listen to yourself - you want them to risk all, because you want the to add "a small thing", that you will not even use frequently.

[EGO_Aut]

.....

.....

Dude listen, i dont want any advice from you and you dont have to repeat what others said.

And i dont want ES to change the whole game -or that you spam a lot of other games.

The fact is that there is already a multiplayer part in the game, the big question is how it will be further developed. You don't know and neither do I, but you will still be allowed to dream.

[mr.WHO]

The fact is that there is already a multiplayer part in the game, the big question is how it will be further developed. You don't know and neither do I, but you will still be allowed to dream.

You really don't have idea how multiplayer work - X4 ventures are as much multi-player as me sending a paper letter to you about what ship I can sent to your X4 game save. There was such system ages ago for turn based games via E-mail and probably some people played chess via actual paper letters, but this is not a real multi-player.

Real multi-player, even rudimentary co-op require much more data and much more things to run in sync - that's why when someone use multi-player you hear complains about de-sync errors.
X4 game code is by design single-player game - in no way or form it was made to run MP session. It's like having a bicycle and expecting it to fly to Mars.

And i dont want ES to change the whole game -or that you spam a lot of other games.

Then you have problem - you cannot have real MP in X4 without changing the whole game.
Again, X4 would probably be able to run coop with "small/pocket area" like in tutorial missions (that do not run entire universe), but then you're not playing real X4, but downgraded versio,n that is nothing more than second-rate space-sim, glorified Star Wars Squadrons I could say.

Speaking about SW Squadrons - it too has multi-player and VR support and EA has much more cash to burn.

[EGO_Aut]

@mr.WHO

I'm done with you, apparently you don't want to understand the core of my posts. You sound like a stuck endless loop, always repeating the same thing.


@Falcrack

Your suggestion also sounds good.

[Falcrack]

Then you have problem - you cannot have real MP in X4 without changing the whole game.
Again, X4 would probably be able to run coop with "small/pocket area" like in tutorial missions (that do not run entire universe), but then you're not playing real X4, but downgraded versio,n that is nothing more than second-rate space-sim, glorified Star Wars Squadrons I could say.

What is being proposed is not to change the whole game to be MP. Not the whole universe being simulated. Just a separate arena mode added to X4, separate from the universe sim, placed in a single sector, where 2 people could have multiplayer fleet battles. No need to share data for a whole universe, no complex economic simulation to keep track of. And I think it would be a lot of fun and worthwhile to add, would sell well as a DLC to justify the cost of development, and would not detract from the game we currently have.

[dtpsprt]

The only way to avoid the need for huge amounts of data to be bouncing between clients to keep them in sync would be to cut it down to a 1v1 local combat simulation, but that's totally at odds with what X series games are all about.

I think it would actually be a lot of fun to have a 1v1 local combat simulation, not replacing what we have already, but adding to it as a separate mode that could be selected in the menu. Not try to simulate the entire universe, just a single sector at most, where two players can test out their dogfighting and fleet command abilities against each other. Play around with ship balance, see what works best, be a fleet commander and ship commander at the same time. I'd pay for a DLC like that! I think a lot of other players would be happy to have something like this as well. It would not be something to replace the current X4 game, I think it would greatly add to it as a separate mode though.

I have to agree with that... especially if it can be made "by invitation". Let me explain:

One system is selected at random from the existing.

Only two players can join at any time with a pre selected number and ability of ships. The first player to "enter" the "room" sends "invitation" to the second player. (This will definitely decrease demand for rooms, therefore space and bandwidth with the added bonus of creating "camaraderie" in the player base. Or it can be a very good way to resolve disputes. The "results" can be posted in Egosoft Forums)

It ends when any one of the players disconnects (for any reason) or gets destroyed to the last S fighter...

So, the systems in their "original" configuration are already stored in the server and only one is loaded to both players, then only the movements/actions of the "enemy's" ships need to be transferred between computers as they will both make the same adjustments to their "environment" (you can't have identical input with different outcomes, basic scientific truth).

[mr.WHO]

Then you have problem - you cannot have real MP in X4 without changing the whole game.
Again, X4 would probably be able to run coop with "small/pocket area" like in tutorial missions (that do not run entire universe), but then you're not playing real X4, but downgraded versio,n that is nothing more than second-rate space-sim, glorified Star Wars Squadrons I could say.

What is being proposed is not to change the whole game to be MP. Not the whole universe being simulated. Just a separate arena mode added to X4, separate from the universe sim, placed in a single sector, where 2 people could have multiplayer fleet battles. No need to share data for a whole universe, no complex economic simulation to keep track of. And I think it would be a lot of fun and worthwhile to add, would sell well as a DLC to justify the cost of development, and would not detract from the game we currently have.

It is doable, it would be fun, but is it worthwhile? Egosoft say it's not and they have better financial and technical overview that all of us.

[Y-llian]

There are hundreds of multiplayer games out there to choose from. The X series has always been good, single-player games. Not every games needs multiplayer - please. The point of the sandbox is that it’s “your” universe to play in. You can combat as a pilot, play as an economic mogul, setup your empire if you wish. The last thing I want is other kids playing in my sandbox and destroying my carefully built sandcastles.

The thing I love (and I’d hazard this might be true of others) is that I can save my universe after a session. Go and do my RL job, maintain family commitments and when I reload it’s as I left it and my adventure can continue.

[Clownmug]

There are hundreds of multiplayer games out there to choose from. The X series has always been good, single-player games. Not every games needs multiplayer - please. The point of the sandbox is that it’s “your” universe to play in. You can combat as a pilot, play as an economic mogul, setup your empire if you wish. The last thing I want is other kids playing in my sandbox and destroying my carefully built sandcastles.

The thing I love (and I’d hazard this might be true of others) is that I can save my universe after a session. Go and do my RL job, maintain family commitments and when I reload it’s as I left it and my adventure can continue.

Speaking of other games, I just realized Stellaris also has a somewhat complex simulation, but also does multiplayer, and you can even save the game session in it.

[mr.WHO]

Speaking of other games, I just realized Stellaris also has a somewhat complex simulation, but also does multiplayer, and you can even save the game session in it.

You would not believe how many people complain about de-sync issues of MP Session every time Stellaris is updated (and it's updated very frequently).

[Y-llian]

Speaking of other games, I just realized Stellaris also has a somewhat complex simulation, but also does multiplayer, and you can even save the game session in it.

Yes, I enjoy Stellaris... but, it’s nothing like X4. They are completely different games, with different design and aims. The only relation is that they are both computer games, in the same vain as saying apples and bridges are similar because they both have matter.

I’m not saying this to be unkind, I appreciate there are diverging views here. At the core (and I’d say strength) of the X series has been the aim to simulate a universe where you can play in first-person but also have a strategic, economic and shooter gameplay. It’s genre defying which is why comparisons with other games are always going to be problematic.

[spankahontis]

Egosoft stated they won't do X4 VR, because XR VR was financial failure.

It must take several years and several more games like Half-Life Alyx, before VR market become big enough to be financially viable.

Hello Games is making everyone else look bad then since they added VR to No Man's Sky in their regular updates. Then a few months later had an update just to add an in-game music synthesizer...

No Man's Sky was thee most hyped game in news media, no game in history received as much press from game magazines, even beyond games media.

Sadly, Egosoft can only wish for that sort of coverage, which Rebirth VR didn't get a crumb of. Maybe it would of made more money if it had more media coverage? But that requires allot of money to invest in marketing.
Sean Murray was handed everything, all that free media that he didn't deserve.

[Clownmug]

Egosoft stated they won't do X4 VR, because XR VR was financial failure.

It must take several years and several more games like Half-Life Alyx, before VR market become big enough to be financially viable.

Hello Games is making everyone else look bad then since they added VR to No Man's Sky in their regular updates. Then a few months later had an update just to add an in-game music synthesizer...

No Man's Sky was thee most hyped game in news media, no game in history received as much press from game magazines, even beyond games media.

Sadly, Egosoft can only wish for that sort of coverage, which Rebirth VR didn't get a crumb of. Maybe it would of made more money if it had more media coverage? But that requires allot of money to invest in marketing.
Sean Murray was handed everything, all that free media that he didn't deserve.

Good marketing doesn't require a lot of investment, it just requires more effort than a few web ads, livestreaming a couple videos, and showing up at Gamescom every few years. Also having marketable features like VR and multiplayer helps. Just vaguely insinuating they had multiplayer, even though they didn't at the time, was enough to sell No Man's Sky to a lot of people.

[spankahontis]

Hello Games is making everyone else look bad then since they added VR to No Man's Sky in their regular updates. Then a few months later had an update just to add an in-game music synthesizer...

No Man's Sky was thee most hyped game in news media, no game in history received as much press from game magazines, even beyond games media.

Sadly, Egosoft can only wish for that sort of coverage, which Rebirth VR didn't get a crumb of. Maybe it would of made more money if it had more media coverage? But that requires allot of money to invest in marketing.
Sean Murray was handed everything, all that free media that he didn't deserve.

Good marketing doesn't require a lot of investment, it just requires more effort than a few web ads, livestreaming a couple videos, and showing up at Gamescom every few years. Also having marketable features like VR and multiplayer helps. Just vaguely insinuating they had multiplayer, even though they didn't at the time, was enough to sell No Man's Sky to a lot of people.

It was WAY more than just bullshitting about multi-player!
Sean Murray lied about something like 70+ features of the game and people started building up all these awesome features and that is what built momentum.
That side of his momentum was free because the Space Sim community were hyping this up like a virus spreading.
Free advertising being spread by those that heard Murray's hype.

But that couldn't of happened without the dozens of interviews he conducted to games magazines.
He even managed to get on the Late Show with Stephen Colbert, he was THAT popular at the time. He hit mainstream audiences even beyond gaming markets, Sure he had a marketing firm selling the concept of his games to the target audiences but no market firm could of prepared for the hype that No Mans Sky got.
This 'nobody' games company got more publicity than the top AAA Games of the time.
One of the most hyped games in video game history. I've heard it got more coverage all-round than Star Citizen?

Testament to a lie getting halfway across the world before the truth has time to put it's pants on.

[CBJ]

Can we not turn this thread into yet another rehash of a well-worn discussion about someone else's game, please?

[Clownmug]

Can we not turn this thread into yet another rehash of a well-worn discussion about someone else's game, please?

Ok, it's only fair since no one really discusses the X games anywhere else on the internet.

[Razorbeast]

I got all excited yesterday because I was picking X4 up again after a very long time away and, while setting up my controls (I have a new HOTAS), I noticed that in the controls list was an option to centre VR and thought that VR was finally coming to X4. I guess not. It's a shame, because I think that would be an awesome addition.

I think that they main reason that X: Rebirth didn't get many sales in VR is because the game isn't very good. I bought it as soon as it came out in the original version and regretted it. I then bought it when it came out in VR thinking that it would be impressive enough to overcome its shortcomings. It was better, largely because more development time had been spent on the core game, but it still wasn't good enough. I spent a lot of hours in the game and I enjoyed them but I got pretty upset when I couldn't complete my space station because there was a total lack of a vital resource (I can't remember what it was now, possibly reinforced steel or something). Once I hit that barrier it was game over.

From what I've played of X4 it is a really good game and if it had VR it would be a really good VR game and I would like to think that it would sell a lot more copies than X:R for that reason. Unfortunately, there seems to be this weird clique in the space game market that includes E:D, Star Citizen, and NMS but that completely ignores any of the X games, despite the fact that the X games are far superior to all of the other three (except X:R, obviously).

[dtpsprt]

I got all excited yesterday because I was picking X4 up again after a very long time away and, while setting up my controls (I have a new HOTAS), I noticed that in the controls list was an option to centre VR and thought that VR was finally coming to X4. I guess not. It's a shame, because I think that would be an awesome addition.

I think that they main reason that X: Rebirth didn't get many sales in VR is because the game isn't very good. I bought it as soon as it came out in the original version and regretted it. I then bought it when it came out in VR thinking that it would be impressive enough to overcome its shortcomings. It was better, largely because more development time had been spent on the core game, but it still wasn't good enough. I spent a lot of hours in the game and I enjoyed them but I got pretty upset when I couldn't complete my space station because there was a total lack of a vital resource (I can't remember what it was now, possibly reinforced steel or something). Once I hit that barrier it was game over.

From what I've played of X4 it is a really good game and if it had VR it would be a really good VR game and I would like to think that it would sell a lot more copies than X:R for that reason. Unfortunately, there seems to be this weird clique in the space game market that includes E:D, Star Citizen, and NMS but that completely ignores any of the X games, despite the fact that the X games are far superior to all of the other three (except X:R, obviously).

You can find at least two threads concerning VR in X4 and the reasons (given by the Devs themselves) for not doing so. You may agree or disagree with them, your point of view, but this is how things are on this subject. I strongly suggest you enjoy X4 and, seriously, wait for VR to be stabilised and standardised as a system and then I'm sure that you'll find lots of games and even other applications that will use it (it is the future in computer usage no doubt about that).

[joshish]

The only way to avoid the need for huge amounts of data to be bouncing between clients to keep them in sync would be to cut it down to a 1v1 local combat simulation, but that's totally at odds with what X series games are all about.

I think it would actually be a lot of fun to have a 1v1 local combat simulation, not replacing what we have already, but adding to it as a separate mode that could be selected in the menu. Not try to simulate the entire universe, just a single sector at most, where two players can test out their dogfighting and fleet command abilities against each other. Play around with ship balance, see what works best, be a fleet commander and ship commander at the same time. I'd pay for a DLC like that! I think a lot of other players would be happy to have something like this as well. It would not be something to replace the current X4 game, I think it would greatly add to it as a separate mode though.

Interesting. I suspect they already have plans for something along these lines for the Ventures system.

Venture jump to fight a battle in an unconnected system with another player would be interesting, but potentially too many resources for just a little addition.