An observation: Star Trek mods. (edited)

[Challenger_STA]

Actually the USS Defiant is approximately 50m longer than a normal Defiant class, has only 4 decks instead of 6, has 8 torpedo tubes instead of 4 (or 3 in the second version of the class), has slightly more powerful warp engines, has a cloaking device from a D'Deridex-class Warbird.

The USS Defiant was the prototype which the class was based upon and so had features that did not make it into the final Defiant class.

As for fighters the Type-18 shuttlepod is a multi-role ship that can act as a fighter, and the Danube-Class shuttles were also usable as fighters. Oh and the Delta flyer was sable as a fighter. That's all off the top of my head.

*points to this image*
http://www.sf-facts.de/downloads/defian ... t_1024.jpg
As you can see, this ship reads 'NX-74205' - thats clearly the original USS Defiant. If you'll observe the tiny lights in the aft section of the bottom cutout, if you look closely you can identify three different decks in that section alone. Given the approximate height of the cutout section, there must be at least three more decks within the fuselage of the ship. Let alone the seperate deck for the bridge.

Additionally, with the different stats for the size (4 Decks, +50m) the shape of the ship would have undergone a significant change when compared to other Defiant class vessels - but neither the Valiant (which was destroyed) nor the Sao Paolo, a.k.a. Defiant-A (which must be assumed to be a off-the-belt Defiant class vessel) showed ANY shape change at all. And I've got good attention for detail - I need to, as a 3D graphics guy.

About the warp engines: there's no evidence that the following Defiant class ships have weaker engines. It was just stated in the beginning that the Defiant prototype had too strong engines for a ship of it's size, so there were structural problems.. but as far as I can see they didn't change the warp core, but did something else.. and thus I assume the further constructed Defiants would have similar modifications.

About the torpedo tubes: where heaven do you want to put four additional torpedo tubes? 4 is more than enough for a ship of this size.. two forward, two aft. More haven't been seen on TV, so declared non-canon.

[edit]
@Argonaught.: Those were never proven to be fighters. It was just stated 'Mars Perimeter defense' if I recall correctly. This could be anything, from heavy duty warheads, local patrol vessels to fighter squadrons.

[emiltod]

you know why they use fighters in today's military and why fighter craft is so viable ? Because weapons are always ahead of the protection. Even 1 small fighter that has virtually no armor can sink a carrier or a battleship or any other military unit no matter how heavilly armored. Even the best armor can't withstand today's weaponry. So a big ship is not a force to be reckoned with but instead a big target. Fighters are small, fast, maneuvrable and pack a punch.

In ST universe it's obvious weapons are behind shield/protection- if you look at the movies you'll see they shoot each other for minutes before the shield goes down countrary to today's battles where if you're hit you're dead.

BTW if you wanna find a nice set of ships (that look nice) 4 races and are pretty much well fitted for X2 universe go to eve online. They have the newbie ships M5, small frigate class (which are their fighter craft)M4-M3, cruiser - which are M6 I'm guessing and battleships which are M2. They don't have carriers but maybe their battleships can be fitted as carriers . Also they have titan class but these are more like stations than ships and also they have various drones which can be used too (including mining drones)

I don't know if you can extract the graphic files from the game but if you could you won't even have to draw them. Anyway - they have very good ships - some fast - some heavy - some balanced. I was in the beta of the game

hehe go take a look at it you might like the models

[Argonaught.]

@Argonaught.: Those were never proven to be fighters. It was just stated 'Mars Perimeter defense' if I recall correctly. This could be anything, from heavy duty warheads, local patrol vessels to fighter squadrons.

Seems I am slightly off with the Fighter Craft tag....it turns out they are probes...however there are fighter craft classes:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/starship_database.htm

Here's a database of just about all known and referenced ships in Startrek.

Here's the page of ships to to note:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans ... ttles2.htm

Take note of Data's scout, a single seater craft from the film Insurrection.

[AD]

because torpedos are too slow

I believe torpedoes travel at warp.

[JPWest]

hey, in an ST mod all 3 fighter classes are accounted for... and some cool cap ships too. For the fighters (lookin at that database posted by argonaught) you could have the federation fighter, the danube runabout and the delta flyer. The defiant would make an awesome corvette, small but with good armour and firepower. I cant remember the class now... but the enterprise could be the carrier and the promethious (sp? was it even called that... could split into 3) could be the destroyer due to its excessive firepower. Make up some transports and you're sorted.

[RustiSwordz]

I created this thread so people can see the viabillity of NOT doing Star Trek ships and it turns into Captain Kirk's Starship nerdathon.

[Challenger_STA]

Trek nerds keep going and going and going..

[Captain Data]

because torpedos are too slow

I believe torpedoes travel at warp.

They don't in normal combat situations. You CAN fire Torpedos at warpspeed, that's why they're able to travel at warpspeed, but they have no warpcore / nacelles etc and no own warpfield. (BTW, logical error: when you fire at warpspeed a non-warpspeed-projectil, it will leave the warpfield of the ships. It will penetrate the warpfield and enters the normal space - that's just impossible (Einstein-Universe) ! Warpspeed is possible in subspace, but not in normal space. But ST is Sci-Fi ... don't try to use logic !)

[Deleted User]

Has anyone thought of doing W. Hammer 40000 ships? I don't do W.Hammer <shudders at thought>, but have Fire Warrior (rock on!) and the ships look pretty cool (no fighters, of course, but M2 + M6, even M1 classes could be just right for them)

Also, RustiSwordz & Challeger_STA are right - Data and co. didn't quite get the hint, did they?

[easternblocrobotcowboy]

if you want to play star trek just go get Bridge commander. It runs smoothly and has great graphics and is a very similar game. Besided picard was never running around buyingn factories. You dont have to mod every game you see into star trek. jeez.

[giskard]

Now that X2 can be heavily modded and scripted how long will it be before the plethora of *yawn* Star Trek ships start appearing.

Everytime modders get their hands on a game and start tearing it to ribbons its always Star Trek that appears first.

Come ON guys there are ships out there a thousand times better than those heaps in ST.

Im not slagging off the talent of the modders, they can do things i can NEVER do, ill never get my brain around all those polygons and X/Y angles and s**t like that, I'm just saying modding choices go beyond Star Trek.

Examples.

Sulaco from Aliens = Argon Titan
Hammerhead Fighter from Space Above Beyond = Argon Nova
Tardis from Dr Who = UFO
Nell from Battle Beyond the Stars = Dragon Corvette

and so on.

You forgot starwars mate. That is always somewhere close to Startrek when modding starts.

Giskard

[Argonaught.]

if you want to play star trek just go get Bridge commander. It runs smoothly and has great graphics and is a very similar game. Besided picard was never running around buyingn factories. You dont have to mod every game you see into star trek. jeez.

Why didn't you pipe in when I suggested something different here:

http://www.egosoft.com/x2/forum/viewtop ... 279#350279

I still think a mod full of the best ships from Sci/Fi would be excellent....including ships from ST and SW although not a total ST or SW mod.

[Kitch]

just to answer this question once and for all (it always crops up and is beginning to get frustrating)

[rant]

Star Trek (and other sci-fi shows with predominantly large scale ships) are based on NAVAL SHIPS.

Harking back to the days of sails and cannons (why do you think they're called USS...?) There were no dinghy's with guns rowing about trying to shoot each other - all combats were ship to ship (usually only a handful of ships at a time) with some hefty firepower (from more modern times... submarines echo cloaking devices... torpedos are essentially the same) and then usually a boarding action to get down and dirty - this would find a use for smaller (shuttle) boats.

Since other shows have taken more inspiration from WWII air battles - hence you get fighters. These are comparitvely low tech affairs that usually mimic atmospheric flight and are not a logical step forward from even todays cutting edge combat aircraft.

I would like to see modders doing their own ship designs and races... I have many ideas for such but not the software or knowhow to implement them... but I'm learning! Once I get there I will quite happily release my own personal universes to the hungry masses for ridicule. I don't care... ST SW mods etc are only good as a temporary distraction.

If you want you "insert fave Sci Fi show" eye candy - the models are out there I guarantee... but dont try to change such an excellent game into something it's not. I'm off to get some nice B5 models to look at... but I don't want to change X2 into a "ST SW B5 whatever" game.

[/rant]

Hearty congratulations go to X2 for designing races and ships that are its own.

[Captain Data]

if you want to play star trek just go get Bridge commander. It runs smoothly and has great graphics and is a very similar game. Besided picard was never running around buyingn factories. You dont have to mod every game you see into star trek. jeez.

Bridgecommander isn't the same. No real-time-full-scale universe and you can have only a dozen or maybe 20 ships max. in battle before this game becomes sluggish like hell. The "geomod" of BC is great, but that's all.

X2 needs some good mods, Star Wars, B5 etc (Hey, why is no one crying that all ppl want a B5-Mod ? Homeworld has 2 or 3 B5-Mods, but only ONE real good Star Trek Mod ! And B5 is not the best Sci-Fi of Universe !) and a good Star Trek Mod (Please no Classic-Mod any more, use the frigg'n Dominion War for story !).

BTW: If somebody doesn't like Star Trek: Don't d/l the Ships, don't d/l the Mods, just leave the thread and open your own to write down your very own position about a good Mod for X2. Don't try to tell a Trek-Fan "Star Trek is bullsh ... try B5, Perry Rhodan or Star Wars - we wouldn't do that to you.