What we know about X-Rebirth [Updated 09/09/11]

[devilsad]

...
I think they could probably put a bit more into the graphics department if we're going back to cutscenes ala X2
...

It wasn't the graphics that were the worst thing about X2's cutscenes... they were animated like human-shaped spacecraft gliding around, the camera movement in every scene was distracting, and the eyes... oh god the eyes. No offense meant but I really hope that was a learning experience for the animator.

Also having a choice of gender for your character and co-pilot would mean writing dialog and animating cut-scenes for 4 possibilities instead of 1, unless you expect the 'crew interaction' to be as cold and sterile as a Terraformer's metal heart...

[Duriel_LOP]

this is a good point, Bioware invests the time into their characters, even in mass effect which has nothing of the depth of economy and space simluation, but you still sit in yer ship and fly around with a crew (well it doesn't have any economy or space simulation really X3 is a groundfpsrpg) but you would think you wouldn't have to spend as much time on everything in space! I suppose it depends how deep these characters are, there also doesn't have to be a whoollle lot of dialogue change,

I think if they are going to bother working on characters we interact with it is worth the time to create characters we will care about otherwise they are only going to irritate people by their presence... I don't think that quantity will necessarily mean less quality, depends on what theyve got to work with I suppose. I also wonder whether cutscenes if they are in the game, whether they will be pre animated or generated ingame.....


and yes, the X2 cutscenes.... They tried their best I suppose! X3

[perkint]

I'm not going to worry about characters yet. We don't have enough info to know whether they are good/bad/annoying or anything else yet. I suspect the crew characters are going to be fairly limited since you will be hiring them for every station you have so to give them depth and variety is potentially a huge task that (IMO) isn't worth it.

Your co-pilot and crew on your ship tho - I suspect they will have more depth since they are with you all the time. Wonder if they will have skill levels as well, in the same way station managers will? That would be pretty cool

By the way - I'm convinced (following further discussion with zazie) about the rolling demo. Will update the opening posts when I get time & am on the PC (ain't no way I'm editing them from my phone!!).

Tim

[webba84]

This all sounds a lot like Independence War II. You know, the 10 year old game that did all this stuff really well? In fact, it sounds exactly like IW2. It sounds like the main design document has IWII crossed out and Rebirth written over the top.

Well, I'm not going to complain, IW2 is still one of my favorite games. In fact, I've always wanted a game which combines IWII combat, physics, characterization and all round production values with the X series economy, freedom and empire building elements. If Egosoft really pulls of such a game I will be extremely happy indeed.

I am a bit worried though. I'm all for Egosoft improving their storytelling abilities and production values but this seems like a very ambitions step forward. If TC had been any sort of improvement over previous iterations in this department it would be a different story. As it is I'm worried it will be too much for them and we'll get X2 cutscenes again. /Shudder/

[pjknibbs]

This all sounds a lot like Independence War II. You know, the 10 year old game that did all this stuff really well? In fact, it sounds exactly like IW2. It sounds like the main design document has IWII crossed out and Rebirth written over the top.

I'm not seeing the similarities, myself. For a start, there were no "space lanes" in IW2 for intra-system travel--you used a low-end FTL drive (the LDS) that could take you anywhere you wanted. In addition, IW2 was a strictly mission-based game with pretty minimal economics, and despite the freedom the LDS drive gave you, there was practically no freedom anywhere else; you couldn't even leave your base on a sightseeing trip unless you had a mission to do!

[TTD]

And that is something I don't want.

One of the great things about the X- series is the ability to go with the plot , or not, at nearly any time you wish and do what ever else the game allows you to do.

I gave up on games that had a series of missions to fulfill by a predefined method and the game ended at the end of the plot.

[webba84]

I'm not seeing the similarities, myself. For a start, there were no "space lanes" in IW2 for intra-system travel--you used a low-end FTL drive (the LDS) that could take you anywhere you wanted. In addition, IW2 was a strictly mission-based game with pretty minimal economics, and despite the freedom the LDS drive gave you, there was practically no freedom anywhere else; you couldn't even leave your base on a sightseeing trip unless you had a mission to do!

Haven't played it lately, right? You could certainly leave your base without missions as a large part of the game was freeform piracy, you could also fly anywhere you wanted in the universe and yes, LDS is a different (and I would argue better) sci fi concept to space lanes but in gameplay practice it works almost exactly the same, fly to a certain point, then fly really really fast to another one near where you want to go. The economics were actually pretty similar to the earlier X games in terms of detail, though you are right that trading was quite simplified from the players point of view.

And if you really can't see the similarities then consider this. Character based progression, small ship crew of personalities, character restricted to single ship throughout the game, the ship changes as the game progresses etc etc And yes, IWII ended when you finished the plot which was a shame because it had so much potential for a quite unfinished game and it wasn't easily moddable either so the community could only carry it so far.

I guess my point is that I like these similarities I am seeing because IWII was a seriously under appreciated game where the best parts were the physics, combat and the production values. If Rebirth can manage these in addition to the areas where the X games have traditionally been strong then I'll be extremely happy.

[A5PECT]

Rebirth will also allow you to purchase, construct, and command multiple ships and stations across a dynamic universe

You know, just one tiny little difference.

But yeah, there are a lot of similarities between the two games. You certainly can't just flat out say they're the same, but Egosoft has always been heavily influenced by the work from the rest of the genre. Since there's been a slight drop in the number of new space-sim games in recent years it's not surprising that they're looking to the past for inspiration.

And that is something I don't want.

One of the great things about the X- series is the ability to go with the plot , or not, at nearly any time you wish and do what ever else the game allows you to do.

I gave up on games that had a series of missions to fulfill by a predefined method and the game ended at the end of the plot.

No details have been released about the plot yet. The developers have simply stated they are putting more effort into making it better. I'm going to hazard a guess that the "drop it and get back to it whenever you want" style of campaign is still going to be in Rebirth (it's been in every other X title thus far).

[webba84]

Rebirth will also allow you to purchase, construct, and command multiple ships and stations across a dynamic universe

You know, just one tiny little difference.

Fair point, and a point in the X-series favour since that's an element of their games they've always done quite well and we all enjoy. It does leave me wondering, however, how the empire builidng elements will be affected by the shift to a IWII style (or X-BTF if you want) style main character. One of the things that made X-Tension such a big step forward over X-BTF was that because you could change ship the impression was there that you could interact with and enjoy all of your possessions. You own that ship, go fly it etc etc It's much harder to create this impression when the player is restricted to a plot controlled, spacecraft shaped prison. Yes, you can fly your prison around and look at all the pretty things you own but no touching.

I think the contrast is the important thing. Of the basically 6 large scale game entities the player could own in IWII 4 were ships you could fly personally, one was your pirate base/ manufacturing hub/ command center and the last one was a freight barge flown by one of your crew who jumped in to pick up all the loot. In other words, almost all the things the game stated that the player 'owned' were things the player had a large degree of intimate control over. I know that Rebirth will have a massive universe and the chance to have massive fleets and ships because it is an X game but I do worry that from the info released so far it will be more like X-BTF than X-Tension. Which would be a shame imho.

Since there's been a slight drop in the number of new space-sim games in recent years it's not surprising that they're looking to the past for inspiration.

Aye, too sad and too true. Has there even been any apart from the X series since Freelancer?

[VincentTH]

Aye, too sad and too true. Has there even been any apart from the X series since Freelancer?

Quite a few, actually (not sure of time frame, however). Following is a list of the better ones

- Tachyon the Fringe
- Ares Rising
- Darkstar One

Of course "better" is relative to the eyes of the beholder.

[Deadbeat_Spinn]

Aye, too sad and too true. Has there even been any apart from the X series since Freelancer?

Quite a few, actually (not sure of time frame, however). Following is a list of the better ones

- Tachyon the Fringe
- Ares Rising
- Darkstar One

Of course "better" is relative to the eyes of the beholder.

What no Nexus: The Jupiter Incident?

Granted that game was more about tactics since you were outgunned and/or outnumbered most of the time.

Not sure about Hegemonia, never really got into that game like I did with Nexus or X. Nor have I played Sins of a Solar Empire.

[hawat]

Aye, too sad and too true. Has there even been any apart from the X series since Freelancer?

Quite a few, actually (not sure of time frame, however). Following is a list of the better ones

- Tachyon the Fringe
- Ares Rising
- Darkstar One

Of course "better" is relative to the eyes of the beholder.

I think tachyon and ares would be categorized as even older than freelancer So I don't think there are that many good space sims that have been released since freelancer.

Nexus was great but we can hardly consider that in the same genre as freelancer or x since we cant fly the ships directly.
By the way the original team of nexus is trying to revive nexus 2 if anyone is interested in that game.
nexus 2 video

[arthureloi]

Hello! I've been thinking for a long time about two features that I think must be brought to the new X: Rebirth.

1) I miss the galaxy news channel when I dock on stations. There should be a news system in the new game. It makes so much difference. In my opinion it really helps make you part of that universe. News should be written but there should also be news ships, with maybe banners on them or headlines showing on a hologram, I don't know =)

2) I think there should be a taxing system. I mean, how is police and safety kept? Doesn't the governments get resources from properties on space?? The system could be different for every race or it could be just the same for all, or, say, the Argons tax properties on their space but Borons charge food every x amount of time. Let's say you have an ore mine in Asteroid Belt: you should have to pay (example) 10.000 credits every x azuras if you want to maintain it. If you don't have enough, y amount of ore is confiscated instead.

So what do you guys think? I imagine this would make the game even more realistic, don't you?

[Alan Phipps]

1. Why should you have to dock to receive a general news service if any? Banners, on moving spaceships (aka dots on gravidar)?

2. Why not just assume you pay taxes and what you get paid is what is left after tax?

3. What is 'realism' for a fun space game? Maybe X-Rebirth should have its own discussion threads - Oh it has!
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=300128
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=304976
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=300884

[Nanook]

Yeah, the third link seems the best fit for this, for now. So I'll merge this one with that thread. We don't need a whole bunch if individual "I think Rebirth needs [x] feature" at the moment.

[temetvince]

Ok, I apologize if this has already been addressed. I read the entire first page and skipped to the last page, assuming that anything important would have been updated on the first page.

Am I understanding it right when it says you'll be stuck in your beginning ship? The best part about x3 was saving up money to pilot different ships. But now all you can do is spend the money to let the ai pilot them?

Surely I misunderstood what was said. And no, upgrading a ship does not change the fact that you can't choose your ship.

[s9ilent]

@temetvince:
w.r.t stuck in single ship

Yes and no.
-facts
You (i.e. you as a person) are physically located in a single ship.
However, you can command drones (I think they call them drones? some sort of mini ship). And there are different varieties of drones
ie. there is a combat drone,

-guess
presumably there will be others like scout, trade?


This was to address the .. less-than-fun-gameplay in previous x games, where piloting capitol ships is really boring. (They are slow, you can't shoot and fly, did I mention there are very slow?)



At least this is my understanding of it (which is hopefully more or less accurate).

I believe this is also to allow you to fly in a combat drone (fighter like ship) with out fear of death (if you drone dies, it is no biggie, nothing a few creditsss can't fix) - but this is just an assumption

[AkrionXxarr]

(Hey, I love flying capital ships in the X games. :B)

Now this is entirely speculation, but from what I've read and the couple pictures of what may potentially be the player ship that I've seen it would seem to be a bit more involved than simply limiting you to your starting ship.

Suposedly the ship is upgraded through the plot, for a start (changing its appearance), but you can also remotely control other ships. But for me what may make up for the lack of being aboard another ship is this:

Player Ship
Only one player ship!
You can move within the interior
It has a cockpit & crew
It is altered throughout the plot

If my understanding of this is right, and my estimations on the size of the player ship (seems M6/M6+ ish?) are anywhere close, there may be a chance that one reason for Egosoft limiting you to one single ship is because they plan on, instead of simply adding a cockpit, adding the entire ship interior along with a crew.

If this is the case, then I'd easily be able to let the lack of being aboard other ships or capital ships slide, since you would get a much better feeling for the scale of the ship you're in. Could be kind of like, using Star Wars as a reference, flying a Star Destroyer limited to being up against the window vs flying the Millennium Falcon with access to the whole ship. One is huge but can feel small, and the other is small but can feel huge.

This is, of course, largely speculation but I can't imagine Egosoft would get rid of such a fundamental feature of the X series without replacing it with something more spectacular than a simple modeled cockpit. Also, as far as modding goes, if my speculation turns out to be entirely true then there's a chance that modders may be able to put together their own ships and ship interiors for the players to move around within. Who knows. Either way, here's hoping for awesome!

[s9ilent]

@ AkrionXxarr
w.r.t quote
I thought you couldn't move around in the ship? I thought they where going to go like a StarCraft 2 sort of move around the ship (as opposed to mass effect)

i.e. You can "move" to a different room, but you can't WASD jump etc.?
(Thou my knowledge is shaky, and WASD-le-ing would be awesome. e.g. like a point and click adventure?

[perkint]

As has been said, you can only physically sit in one ship, but can take virtual control of drones - combat, mining & scanning I think are the only (currently) confirmed ones.

It has not yet been made clear how you move from one room in your ship to another. May be walking (I doubt it personally) or it may just be selecting the room and appearing there...

Tim