X-Verse Fleet Fest I

perkint · Post by **perkint** » Sat, 12. Jun 10, 15:02

WRT the rules for XFFII - I personally don't like the idea of banning any ships. If there are any ships that need balancing, just balance them. It's easy to define our own prices and that way you could include any other ships which aren't currently (eg Xenon).

Tim

Cpt.Jericho · Post by **Cpt.Jericho** » Sat, 12. Jun 10, 15:17

Changing prices would be a change of the rules as well.

And I doubt that it will be easy to define our own prices. Everybody has his own idea of what ships should cost.

perkint · Post by **perkint** » Sat, 12. Jun 10, 15:30

Why would changing prices be a change of the rules? For XFFII a spreadsheet is being provided which calculates costs for you. And contains all the ship prices. It would just simply be a case of adjusting those figures.

Actually banning individual ships is a change of rules compared with XFFI but rules changes are fair game for XFFII anyway!

As for everyone having their own opinion about costs - everyone has their own opinion about everything, including as to whether ships should be banned (and which ships)

Personally, I just don't like removing options - more choice means more variety and more fun. If certain ships get banned, it'll only allow the next best to take over it's slot, anyway...

Tim

Cpt.Jericho · Post by **Cpt.Jericho** » Sat, 12. Jun 10, 15:40

perkint wrote:Why would changing prices be a change of the rules?

Ship prices are calculated as the average buying price (taken from http://eng.x3tc.ru) [...]

I don't like banning either but ships like the Solano or Katana are too cheap which may give an extra option. But let's face it: Why using something else if the best ships of their classes are the cheapest?

Spitzeuk · Post by **Spitzeuk** » Sat, 12. Jun 10, 15:53

If you ban one ship there will always be the next best ship. Though the Solano is by far the best fighter the next best will just be used as much. (Falcon Hauler/Nova Raider?)

We aren't even half way through the first round yet and given current progress won't be until this time next xmas

Cpt.Jericho · Post by **Cpt.Jericho** » Sat, 12. Jun 10, 16:01

The gap however is much smaller between FH and NR and both ships have their advantages considered to other variants or ships. BTW: the Barracuda is cheaper than the Nova R. Even the Perseus is cheaper

- and I gonna start reconsidering that fleet I was testing

Gavrushka · Post by **Gavrushka** » Sat, 12. Jun 10, 16:33

I'm sure the 'issue' with the Solano will be sorted by ship number limitations and not by a ban.

The problem with altering prices is that all of a sudden you have a debate on what the price should be (as would be the issue with banning ships) - It appears it would be a little simpler by debating the ship numbers and total price available.

BUT the final decision, I feel, should rest with TJ.

EmperorJon · Post by **EmperorJon** » Sat, 12. Jun 10, 16:45

The 'Fight' icon is quite small, therefore my little logo was bad quality, but still:

[ external image ]

Cpt.Jericho · Post by **Cpt.Jericho** » Sat, 12. Jun 10, 16:54

Gavrushka wrote:I'm sure the 'issue' with the Solano will be sorted by ship number limitations and not by a ban.

I don't think so. Why should someone pick the Mamba for which you can easily get 3 Solanos? The spare credits would go right into heavier weapons and not in bigger shipclasses.

Spychotic · Post by **Spychotic** » Sat, 12. Jun 10, 16:54

But if you limit the ships numbers, then you get into a debate about what the numbers should be....

At the end of the day, it doesn't make a blind bit of difference what limitations are there. The entrants are given them and they work to them. Whoever works with them best wins. As long as they don't change; that's the important thing.

If it's TJ doing the fights next time round, then it's TJ's decision. He should make it and whilst we can and should debate it, we should not argue it with him after the event.

I'm all for debating and arguing with each other before the event though.

Spike

EmperorJon · Post by **EmperorJon** » Sat, 12. Jun 10, 16:57

Speaking of which, it's meant to be back in business tomorrow.

Deadbeat_Spinn · Post by **Deadbeat_Spinn** » Sat, 12. Jun 10, 16:58

Cpt.Jericho wrote:
perkint wrote:Why would changing prices be a change of the rules?

Ship prices are calculated as the average buying price (taken from http://eng.x3tc.ru) [...]
I don't like banning either but ships like the Solano or Katana are too cheap which may give an extra option. But let's face it: Why using something else if the best ships of their classes are the cheapest?

Sure the hull of a Katana is cheap as hell (6+mil IIRC) but outfitting nearly double the cost which brings it roughly on par with a Commonwealth M6. And while it costs 11-12mil to bring a Katana to the table you could spend a couple extra mil and bring a Commonwealth Heavy M6 to the fight instead.

@TJ I've got an idea that I wanted to throw around, I'll send a PM shortly.

EmperorJon · Post by **EmperorJon** » Sat, 12. Jun 10, 17:02

DBS, I'm working on a number or ideas myself, thinking about them, collection others, I wouldn't mind if you sent it to me also.

I agree on the Katana.

As a note, we've still got more than 25 fights left.

TJ better sit down tomorrow and get the first round done with...

If only I had fraps and a decent resolution, I could do them all in one day.

Cpt.Jericho · Post by **Cpt.Jericho** » Sat, 12. Jun 10, 17:04

Spychotic wrote:But if you limit the ships numbers, then you get into a debate about what the numbers should be....

Preferable a number TJs rig can handle

Deadbeat_Spinn wrote:Sure the hull of a Katana is cheap as hell (6+mil IIRC) but outfitting nearly double the cost which brings it roughly on par with a Commonwealth M6. And while it costs 11-12mil to bring a Katana to the table you could spend a couple extra mil and bring a Commonwealth Heavy M6 to the fight instead.

Sorry, I just have to ask: Which heavy M6 is cheaper than 12mio? You'll have trouble to outfit some of the standard variants of M6 with that kind of Money. And the Katana is rather a heavy M6 than a standard one.
If you start to fix CIGs or ISRs on a commonwealth ship you pay the same as for MAMLs.

Deadbeat_Spinn · Post by **Deadbeat_Spinn** » Sat, 12. Jun 10, 17:09

@CJ, I said a couple mil more, not less.

But I do agree a Katana is almost (if not) like a Heavy M6. When doing assassination missions, that ship would give my Hyperion more trouble than even a Kha'ak M6.

@EJ, we'll see.

EmperorJon · Post by **EmperorJon** » Sat, 12. Jun 10, 17:22

I was about to point out that!?

Cpt.Jericho · Post by **Cpt.Jericho** » Sat, 12. Jun 10, 17:23

If you field 3 commonwealth heavy M6 you could field 4 Katanas instead which makes up for the 6 guns in main battery. It has the same shield capacity and pretty deadly guns and missles. However, the shields and weapons reload much faster than any other ship of the entire M6 class.
As I said, I ran a test match with Kalu's and my fleet. Those Katanas took out about a third of the Iguanas without even loosing one. They were firing all the time - I want to see another M6 that can do that.

EmperorJon · Post by **EmperorJon** » Sat, 12. Jun 10, 17:32

Do you now? Right, off I go to go and fetch one then.

EmperorJon · Post by **EmperorJon** » Sat, 12. Jun 10, 18:07

Well I now know Cpt.Jericho to be a lying.

Just decided to try it out with 3 Centaurs, loaded with PBGs, and they were all ripped to death in seconds by the PAC swarms.

Obviously I knew that although it proved that Katanas wouldn't be able to stand it either if I came back and said this he'd just say 'Proof that Katanas are better'.

So I repeated it with 4 MAML Katanas and got the same result. But a few dead Iguanas. (Ie, 3 or 4...)

Cpt.Jericho · Post by **Cpt.Jericho** » Sat, 12. Jun 10, 18:24

Did you try it with the rest of the fleet? That Deimos was keeping about 40% of the Iggys occupied, the Discos about 10% and Panthers combined with the Falcons for another 20 - 25%. The Katanas were picking targets detroyed and picked another one.
At the end most of my fleet was left (most Discos were missing but responsible for that were the PSGs of the Deimos).
Anyway, how many Iggys did you spawn? All of them against 3 Centaurs?

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X-Verse Fleet Fest I