X-Verse Fleet Fest I

[ChairborneRanger]

I've been running a few simulations and I think there are some points to be made concerning rules for further XFF competitions.

For those of you that are thinking TLDR, here is a summary:

1. Outlaw Solanos
2. Allow laser and missile changes after the first round
3. Standardize the fleet submissions

If you don't mind a small novel about my reasons for the above, then read on...

First of all, the Solano should probably be banned outright. I know this isn't going to be popular, but it is, essentially, a M3 shielded fighter with M4 speed and weapon loadouts. Also because of it's M4 pricing, you are able to buy many more than a standard M3. This is likely the reason I haven't seen anyone using proper M4+ ships, like elites (~800K), as you'll notice that a Solano (~400K) is nearly half the price.

Next I think that missile and, at the very least, laser loadouts should be changeable AFTER the first round. Upon entry into a XFF tournament I assume the participants have been randomly seeded, so you would have to set your fleet to be prepared for the unknown, but afterward you'll be able to make better preparations for the next round's match. This was highlighted by the Phinixa vs Perkint match where Phinixa's Titan and Centaurs were shooting in vain with CIGS/PPC/IBL at all those Falcon haulers and just couldn't connect after the initial pass. Another blatant example of this was the Mutiny vs Le Baron lag fest. While the Barracudas had some success with the PBGs, the Thresher and Shark were largely ineffectual. I believe it would promote the use of more varied capital ships and balanced setups as weaknesses in the fighter zerg fleets could be exploited, and make them not as viable.

Another strong reason for the above is that most capital ships can be configured for a wider variety of roles than your average fighter can. A M4, for example is going to generally have quick speed lasers, and fairly similar missiles. A M2, on the other hand, can be a fighter FAA/PAC/IRE/PRG flyswatter, an anti-corvette HEPT/CIG platform, or a capital killer with PPC/IBL/IC/GC etc. Making the subtleties of properly equipping your capital ships AND support fighters makes a battle more decisive and exciting. Otherwise it becomes a match about how many swarming fighters can I fit into whatever number of panthers/TMs. This shouldn't dissuade the admiral who prefers a Panther full of fighters, or better yet, a proper M1 full of fighters. It would simply make them aware that they won't be invincible.

Finally, the submission of fleet rosters for the tournament should be standardized. I don't know if this is being actively worked on with the fleet calculator, but I'm sure TJ can agree that entering in the setups is much easier when you know exactly which turrets have what according to the T0, T1, T2 etc format rather than main, front, back, etc. Here's an example of what might look the easiest:

Cpt.Jericho - TerrorCorps Fully Armed Responce Taskforce
--------------------------------------------------------------------
2 x Panther
T1 = 6 x IBL
T2 = 2 x CIG
T3 = 4 x CIG
T4 = 2 x CIG
T5 = 3 x FAA, 1 x HEPT
T6 = 3 x FAA, 1 x HEPT

4 x 1GJ
25 x Hurricane
===============================
1 x Deimos
T0 = 6 x PSG, 2 x HEPT
T1 = 2 x IBL
T2 = 2 x PSG
T3 = 2 x IBL
T4 = 1 x PSG, 1 x HEPT
T5 = 1 x PSG, 1 x HEPT

6 x 1GJ
3 x Thunderbolt
2 x Salvage Insurance
1 x Energycell
===============================
5 x Katana
T0 = 4 x EMPC, 2 x MAML
T1 = 2 x EMPC
T2 = 2 x EMPC
T3 = 2 x EMPC

5 x 200MJ
8 x Wraith
14 x Poltergeist
20 x MAML Ammo
===============================
12 x Falcon Hauler
T0 = 4 x PBG, 4 x PAC
T1 = 1 x IRE

1 x 200MJ
2xHurricane
===============================
44 x Discoverer
T0 = 4 x IRE

3 x 1MJ
7 x Wasp
---------------------------------------------------------

Maybe that's just me being picky, but those are my thoughts on things overall. Fights are looking great, and I can tell TJ is getting better at capturing the action for us. Keep up the good work!

[Deadbeat_Spinn]

The next 3 fights look like they'll be entertaining. I'll stand by my bets the winners of the fights will be Merdocharr, Gavrushka, & Spychotic.

On the subject of the Solano's, assuming anyone in the bottom 8 survive (1 will) won't have to face any Solano's until Round 4, at the earliest. Though I did have Solano's in my fleet they were changed out with Corvette's just prior to the deadline. Assuming I can survive I won't be facing a fighter based fleet until at least Round 3 depending on who survives out of the xXxSamxXx, travisdh1, Master of the Blade, ashkrowe group.

[Spychotic]

I wouldn't ban Solanos outright.

But since the prices are being dictated, the Solano's price in the competition can be adjusted to more accurately reflect its status as an M4+.

i.e. make it the same price as the Elite. Maybe a little more.

Spike

[X2-Eliah]

I would.

The point is, a Solano is not only too cheap, it is also too good statistics-wise. Better shielding than most regular M3s? Yep. Better speed than most (all) regular M3s? Yep. Smaller size (hitbox) than most regular M3s? Also yep.

Even if a Solano did cost a million - which it doesn't - it would still be preferable to most M3s like Barracuda, Mamba, Perseus etc.

And yeah, can't wait for the new matches..

[Technojerk36]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tOArB-mX_Q

[ChairborneRanger]

Yup, that bonus match was right on the money.

Spoiler

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I ran it about 10 times and it was always the Boreas making a final stand. 007s Panther, being the fastest capital ship, would charge in and always get torn to shreds by the katana and fighters. The Deimos usually went high and, if he got lucky would kill more than half of the Solanos along with all the remaining deca.cefas before succumbing to Merdocharr's Shrike. That would give the Boreas time to kill the Panther, and sometimes the Cerberus.

I also ran the match 3 times and deleted 9 of the solanos...

Spoiler

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Results were along the same lines, with 007s Panther diving in, but usually lasting long enough for his Deimos to finish fighter detail. Then the Deimos would start work on Merdochaar's Panther. Had one match where it was down to a wounded Boreas and the full Shrike. Sadly the Boreas lost.

[Merdocharr]

I have to say I have some doubts about the outcome vs Killjaeden. Not only has he a lot of shields, but I noticed that the cerberus doesn't have IBL slots in front and the panther's rear turret is only half-equipped... Just a heads up for you gamblers out there

As for solanos, I think there are three options for them in XFF 2.
1) Ban them. The easiest solution.
2) Limit their number to some low value like 5 or 10 per fleet. This option might make it so that every fleet has that 5 or 10 solanos.
3) Adjust the price. A good adjustment is hard to make so that it is balanced with other ships. Just doubling the price isn't going to be enough.

And as for the wandering ships we have seen, I think that's what happens when you don't have a scanner in your ship.

That standardizing idea looks good. I think it is a little difficult to see which weapon goes where in some rosters.

Last but not least, TJ has gotten a lot better capturing the battles on video. With this rate we'll have the best space battle ever filmed in the finals.

[EmperorJon]

Ban Solanos!?

Ok, I know I don't use them, but I use Spitfyres and you've not seen them in action yet.

[ChairborneRanger]

Ban Solanos!?

Ok, I know I don't use them, but I use Spitfyres and you've not seen them in action yet.

Which begs the question about Springies and Spitfyres. I haven't run your fleet yet so I guess we'll find out soon. I would point out that your Spitfyres, despite being over twice as fast, have the same shielding as a Solano, and cost about 6 times as much per unit.

[EmperorJon]

But can mount PMAML.

Have you seen how quickly that eats hull? Recently in my AV's Fleet Destruction Run-Throughs I've noticed by the time my Panther kills his the Spitfyres have dealt with the Odysseus.

Go on, run it.

[Technojerk36]

I have to say I have some doubts about the outcome vs Killjaeden. Not only has he a lot of shields, but I noticed that the cerberus doesn't have IBL slots in front and the panther's rear turret is only half-equipped... Just a heads up for you gamblers out there

Last but not least, TJ has gotten a lot better capturing the battles on video. With this rate we'll have the best space battle ever filmed in the finals.

It wasn't against Killjaeden, it was against 007bradz; a bonus match

And thanks

[EmperorJon]

It wasn't against Killjaeden, it was against 007bradz

I have to say I have some doubts about the outcome vs Killjaeden... ...Just a heads up...

[NUKLEAR-SLUG]

The trouble with banning the Solano outright is it just frees out the top slot for the next most overpowering spammable ship.

100 Million only buys you a single destroyer, but it buys you a bucket-load of smaller ships so maybe a better system might be something that involves 'points' rather than cash with different weightings given to the different classes.

If for example an M5 were to be 1 point and a destroyer 20 then instantly 100 points may buy 100 Solanos, but it also buys you 5 destroyers instead of just one.

[Gavrushka]

I would say no Bans but limit ships by category for precisely the reasons stated above - So no more than say 30-40 dockable fighters (M5 to M3+) AND I feel there should always be at least one Capital Ship.

That was a great video by the way - Loved the f3 follows - Artistically done!

[Mutiny]

Perhaps this only needs a limit on the number of TMs.
Meaning money will be spent on bigger craft for docking bays ---> Less spam.
(just a suggestion)

[X2-Eliah]

The you'd just spam blank TL or Panther hulls (maybe even add shields for damage sponging). If there is a will and theoretical ability to spam, people will spam.

[Mutiny]

Sure there will most likely be spam, but significantly less of it.
Using the panther as an example
Its hull costs 36 mil, for this you get 26 slots (correct me if im wrong)
For 28 slots you can get 7 TMs for 5.6 mil.
Thats about a 25 solano difference.
So if a player is opting for a spam he is in theory wasting around 30 mil per 25 ships (if he is going for a solano spam)

Edit* and what a match between Merdocharr vs 007bradz, Nice filming TJ
It might be a n idea and make a trailer for XFF 2 made out of some of the footage from battles in XFF 1

[Cpt.Jericho]

I'd rather see the Solano banned but another possibility to nerv it a bit: double price and allow max 35 MJ shielding. It would cost about the same as most M4+ but would lack its greastest advantage: M3 shielding.
Anyway, this kind of spamming won't be a problem in XXF II since TJ has already said that there will be a cap on how many ships are maximum allowed.
@EmperorJon:
The Spitfyre with PM/AML can be countered! Have run your fleet against mine and those M3 were pretty busy trying to shoot Discos with their sluggish weapons. After the Spitfyres were all dead, there were only 2 Panthers left with 1/2 of their shielding and both belonged to me. The Spitfyre, as you might have noticed, is not on the cheap side and has only average shields. The only advantage I saw was their speed and their weapons when they reached capships which didn't happen very often.
@ChairborneRanger:
You're right, fleet submissions should really follow a certain standard and I like the way you put it. That's what it looks like what you have to enter into the script. However, we should, for XFF II, tell people which turret number is which turret on the ship.
About Laser and weapon changes I'm not so sure. Sounds of course tempting not to try to think of all events that could occur during the whole Fest. But I think that would make things pretty hard. Anyway, we could allow different weapons on the capital ships - the fighters could have a single outfit.

[Tenlar Scarflame]

Re: Bradz vs. Merdocharr, it was nice to see the Solanos making heavy use of their missiles. I bet that contributed a lot to how well they did.

Also, it looks like PAC's are the way to go en masse - cheap and effective.

[Technojerk36]

Spoiler

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PACs en masse do seem to be the key to victory. Yeah, you guessed it, TeH Sludgeworm Accident won the fight.

Save files are uploading, video should be up by tomorrow.