Everthing is to easy

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Scoob
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Re: Everthing is to easy

Post by Scoob »

flywlyx wrote: Mon, 3. Mar 25, 17:01 I would also include Faction Enhancer and DeadAir, but the capabilities mods can provide are still limited without updates on the engine side.
Unless the engine allows factions to identify incoming threats and respond accordingly, modders can only do so much.
That game included DeadAir Eco and Scripts, as well as some customisations made to them specifically for RE. From what I can tell, while faction responses are more reactive than pre-emptive, the AI will gather fleets to defend gates where incursions have come through. In my case, with the quite epically buffed Xenon, they didn't do very well, but that was sort of the point. Perhaps the game will get better at identifying threats via legitimate scouting and actual intelligence gathering.

Currently, I'm playing a Star Wars Interworlds game - it's a total conversion mod - and the fleet movements, invasions and counters in that are pretty good.
flywlyx
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Re: Everthing is to easy

Post by flywlyx »

Scoob wrote: Mon, 3. Mar 25, 18:44 That game included DeadAir Eco and Scripts, as well as some customisations made to them specifically for RE. From what I can tell, while faction responses are more reactive than pre-emptive, the AI will gather fleets to defend gates where incursions have come through. In my case, with the quite epically buffed Xenon, they didn't do very well, but that was sort of the point. Perhaps the game will get better at identifying threats via legitimate scouting and actual intelligence gathering.

Currently, I'm playing a Star Wars Interworlds game - it's a total conversion mod - and the fleet movements, invasions and counters in that are pretty good.
Not sure which mod you're using that has that effect. As far as I can tell, Faction Enhancer/Deadair still rely on patrol forces randomly encountering enemies rather than having the actual ability to detect units entering their sectors.

From my perspective, the lack of defense stations at gates is just wrong—it’s like a country having no border control.
Scoob
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Re: Everthing is to easy

Post by Scoob »

flywlyx wrote: Mon, 3. Mar 25, 20:20 Not sure which mod you're using that has that effect. As far as I can tell, Faction Enhancer/Deadair still rely on patrol forces randomly encountering enemies rather than having the actual ability to detect units entering their sectors.

From my perspective, the lack of defense stations at gates is just wrong—it’s like a country having no border control.
The Star Wars Interworlds mod integrates a lot of other stuff, I don't know what exactly. However, I've see fleets rushing to an enemy incursion - travelling over several sectors - and Defence Platforms being built near gates - as well as seemingly randomly in the sector. I agree that the AI should be better at placing them near gates to directly counter incursions.

Regular Faction patrols are reactive to events outside of their direct visual range. I've often seen them rushing off to attack enemies that they cannot directly see. It was one of the main complaints I had about the Patrol command available to the player, as it's NOT reactive to events like the one the Factions use. There was talk about improving it ages ago, but that does not seem to have gotten any where. I rely on protect position at strategic locations, well-placed defence platforms and Reaction Force ships to respond to attacks.
flywlyx
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Re: Everthing is to easy

Post by flywlyx »

Scoob wrote: Tue, 4. Mar 25, 18:21 The Star Wars Interworlds mod integrates a lot of other stuff, I don't know what exactly. However, I've see fleets rushing to an enemy incursion - travelling over several sectors - and Defence Platforms being built near gates - as well as seemingly randomly in the sector. I agree that the AI should be better at placing them near gates to directly counter incursions.

Regular Faction patrols are reactive to events outside of their direct visual range. I've often seen them rushing off to attack enemies that they cannot directly see. It was one of the main complaints I had about the Patrol command available to the player, as it's NOT reactive to events like the one the Factions use. There was talk about improving it ages ago, but that does not seem to have gotten any where. I rely on protect position at strategic locations, well-placed defence platforms and Reaction Force ships to respond to attacks.
Patrol, police, and search for build orders are probably the most useless commands in the vanilla game. They appear to be doing something but accomplish none.
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Ehli
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Re: Everthing is to easy

Post by Ehli »

Yes, even though it's less in terms of realism, I'd prefer having X3's RRF above the current patrol scripts. Too often I'm disappointed a faction allows a core sector being steamrolled (or even worse, picked apart slowly) while having plenty assets in other sectors.
flywlyx
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Re: Everthing is to easy

Post by flywlyx »

Ehli wrote: Tue, 4. Mar 25, 20:07 Yes, even though it's less in terms of realism, I'd prefer having X3's RRF above the current patrol scripts. Too often I'm disappointed a faction allows a core sector being steamrolled (or even worse, picked apart slowly) while having plenty assets in other sectors.
It would likely be more realistic for factions to have a stronger fleet defending their home sectors, rather than allowing anyone to easily sneak in and launch surprise attacks on their shipyards at will.
jlehtone
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Re: Everthing is to easy

Post by jlehtone »

flywlyx wrote: Tue, 4. Mar 25, 20:32 It would likely be more realistic for factions to have a stronger fleet defending their home sectors, rather than allowing anyone to easily sneak in and launch surprise attacks on their shipyards at will.
Particularly for Xenon that should be relatively "safe" option. Additional power that does not boost their ability to raid other factions.

Then again, cruising past Asgard on the Moon is/was way too easy. That at least did look like "strong fleet".
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flywlyx
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Re: Everthing is to easy

Post by flywlyx »

jlehtone wrote: Tue, 4. Mar 25, 21:34 Particularly for Xenon that should be relatively "safe" option. Additional power that does not boost their ability to raid other factions.

Then again, cruising past Asgard on the Moon is/was way too easy. That at least did look like "strong fleet".
From a lore perspective, it’s also easy to justify—just like the endgame crisis, you never really know how many Xenon ships are lurking out there in the dark.

I think the old Torus death zone made more sense. The current Earth is far too easy to access—it doesn’t really feel like the home planet of a xenophobic species with extremely advanced technology. Instead, it feels more like my neighbor’s backyard.
Scoob
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Re: Everthing is to easy

Post by Scoob »

flywlyx wrote: Tue, 4. Mar 25, 19:34 Patrol, police, and search for build orders are probably the most useless commands in the vanilla game. They appear to be doing something but accomplish none.
I'll raise you the command to revisit known stations - aka, update prices - that just runs the Explore command in the sector, so it can takes hours before it happens across all stations. I just manually order a ship to fly to an expired station to update it if needed.

I've provided much feedback on Patrol and Police, but they don't appear to have been worked on and remain useless. Position Defence and Protect until further notice are about the most useful commands that don't involve assigning a ship to a station directly.
Virtualaughing
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Re: Everthing is to easy

Post by Virtualaughing »

If i want such actions then I don't play X. There is some fun to start the game from scratch but doing it for 10 times in the past 25 y is not for me.
Pick one faction. Never shoot anyone again. Make a supply line for some factions. Prevent factions from collapsing. Build shipyards and force your favorite factions to expand to a direction.
X to X3 is MENU SUPERIOR!
I think Egosoft has already worked out our doom, because Xenon AI will reach the stars! :D

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