X4 Foundations Poll #3: What did you NOT like?

[Kamuchi_]

Finally

Trader logic is absolutely horrible: viewtopic.php?f=146&t=410096&p=4809516#p4809389
Fleet management, tested it and decided to wait for 2.0: https://steamcommunity.com/app/392160/d ... 811532927/
Patrolling a system and the ships decide to ignore me: viewtopic.php?f=146&t=410049&p=4808767#p4808767

Because of fleet and general player ai controlled ship combat, I didn't botherd with boarding either for money or ship collection.

This sounds about right so its not a dislike against the feature being there, rather a dislike on account of it not working as well as it should. Still pleased its there though so I view it as a v1.0 set of features which need some attention and polish as opposed to pls get rid of them.

Same, I really want to like it and use it and go to war against ALL factions, but it's just broken that the only war you can have is supplying your fav faction to the brim so they never have ship building issues, otherwise your ships are doing dumb things and die like nubs

[Knossos]

I just posted what I liked in the other one, now the flip side of the coin.

1. Combat

There doesn't feel like a fight. It feels like I am punching someone in a wheelchair. Khaak for example, will mostly fly around in circles as I kill them. 95% of the time they will not even land a shot on me. Everyone else will boost away until they have no shields and then proceed to get melted. The only time I have cause to worry is when the enemy launches missiles. They are next to impossible to see, especially in a fight. You cannot target them, so you cannot auto aim at them, so they are extremely hard to hit. They will also one shot me in my heavy fighter every time.

It would also be good to be able to drop off a crew member from my ship onto claimed ships.

2. Missions

Overall, I am mostly happy with the missions. I like the huge diversity. However, I do very much miss the "protect the station" and "kill the pirate" missions. There is a general lack of killing type missions. And those kill-missions that do exist are typically illegal ones that reduce your reputation with a faction. I much prefer to take out pirates (lawful good).

Station missions are good too, but I find I am getting cluttered with stations that I have built through missions. They should either belong to whomever ordered them built, or you should be able to sell stations / plots.

3. Trading

We desperately need more complex trading commands.
a) Load X from station 1
b) Unload X to station 2
c) Go to A

4. General ships and weapons

I liked that ships in X3 were more unique. Some ships could fit certain types of weapons. Some races had different kinds of advantages and disadvantages. It seems like things are more homogenised now. I don't feel like there is much uniqueness. Balance in general seems a bit off. But there are plenty of threads about that.

5. Management

General management is difficult. It took me an hour or so to figure out how to get a manager on my station from my ship. I tried through menus until I asked someone, and found out that it could be done through talking to the pilot. But what if I have a good pilot? I don't want him to be a manager. etc etc. This could all be made better.

[BigBANGtheory]

Although its not on the list something small (and fixable) which immediately bugged me was the cockpit radar and HUD

I like the look of the cockpit radar and obviously pleased its there this time its the fact its cropped on the left and right sides as though you're viewing it through a scuba mask. Could we please widen the view of the radar?

[ external image ]

[VALERIVS]

To me looking out for blueprints and exploration are the most annoying parts in the game. Both are no fun at all, just time-consuming to get stuff that you need to progress further.

Yes, even the exploration part is not great! If I said it was exciting to look for hidden stations, anomalies, abandoned ships etc., that would be a lie. In reality it did not take long until I started to use as many auto-exploring ships as possible in all the sectors, because I do not want to map the whole universe manually. It is just dumb. Personal opinion of course.

[Damocles_]

The station scanning and those "wire repair" on the surface activities are probably in the game to have the player experience the modules of the station, and get close to the structures.

But: why do the modules get shaded in colors when scanning, thus completely messing up the visuals, making the station look ugly then.
That could be visualized in a subtle way than a gamy colored shading of the entire model.

To get the player have some reason to float around the station, add more meaning to that.
Small cargoboxes stuck at the surface.
Interacting with terminals at the surface.
Placing devices / bombs
Even special airlock-entrances to the station, only approachable with the EVA suit. (with some simple inside corridor to pick up things etc or with interacting with criminals in their hideout)

[Kamuchi_]

Here is another example of the ai being absolutely useless.
Ianamus Zura IV, a K with it's wing are taking a stroll though the system while the Teladi squadrons are gate camping https://i.imgur.com/1pkMvKY.png

Not only did the Xenon take out the station docks as the gate is right next to it, because of that I had placed a few ships there and built 4 gun platforms right next to the gate and no sign of the station getting repaired as ships keep getting killed and station keeps getting damaged.
Is there a cooldown timer on station repair/rebuild? as otherwise I'm going to have to turret wall that entire gate in.

[DarkSideMaster1]

Well, here is my personal IMHO

1. No storyline.
2. No epic rewards as unique ships, stations, etc..
3. No big ships and very small selection a big ships. Odessey very weak. Earlier, the purchase of M2 class meant that the player received a very powerful ship. There was a goal to buy it and a goal to earn credits. Now this is not.

4. A ships design. Just look here. IT IS YOUR GAME. YOU CREATE THIS GAME! IT IS YOUR DESIGN THAT SHIPS

It is X3.
http://www.elite-games.ru/images/x3tc/s ... tas_m2.jpg
http://www.elite-games.ru/images/x3tc/s ... h_a_m2.jpg
http://www.elite-games.ru/images/x3tc/s ... _tr_m2.jpg
http://www.elite-games.ru/images/x3tc/s ... h_k_m2.jpg

and many, many others.. These are masterpieces. Give some rewards to yours the designers


And now, look at X4.... Free that designers

https://www.egosoft.com/games/x4/screen ... en_013.jpg
https://i.redd.it/tl9rh3p6g5221.png

And.. Are you have you seen the design of teladi ships? All ships it is just Avatar from EvE-Online It is epic fail In XBTF design Phoenix was better

5. Xenons. Why are they so harmless? Where is xenon ivasions? Where is war? Where is missions for defend a sector? Where is epic fleet battle?
6. Khaaks. Look number 5.
7. Give players a goal!! Why players must build fleet and stations?


For now, I playing in YOUR GAME: X3-AP (do X4 as X3 and add new feature and you have a great success.

8. Where is jump drive???? It is LORE! For what you remove him from the game? Please, return him! (this may be some reward for very hard missions

[SystemsEternal]

One thing I can say for certain that I really dislike about x4 is how a ship scan from police lets them see the player inventory.

On the same kinda note how my ships with no illegal goods on them are getting scanned from police and then told to drop cargo with no way to see their pilot inventory, to see what they have picked up from containers, I cant tell whether they have illegal goods on them.

And as so far in my play throughs I have never had a successful hack of a station, I had the hacking software that then allows me the option to hack a station production monitor, but on pressing the confirm button....nothing......and no possible way to re hack the target. This is on every hack attempt I have made.


Some other things I didn't like, mostly the unimplemented things, like seminars. Why are they there if they have no use? you released an unfinished game at full release, it is maddening.

The fact that there is no plot, no real drive to get anywhere in the game.

Lack of choice in ships, lack of design in ships(especially teladi, they all look the same, M miner looks same as L transporter or even the carrier)

[Galinet]

5. Management

General management is difficult. It took me an hour or so to figure out how to get a manager on my station from my ship. I tried through menus until I asked someone, and found out that it could be done through talking to the pilot. But what if I have a good pilot? I don't want him to be a manager. etc etc. This could all be made better.

Using the pilot as manager is the "quick" approach. Here's the long way, to assign a marine or service crew and keep your good pilot.

Go to a station and hire someone as a cremember (marine or service crew). Go to your station and dock, then open the ship's information and drill down Personnel > Crew > Full Crew List > Service crew > Apprentice/Able/Specialist then right-click > Comm > Work somewhere else for me. Then right-click > select the station, set the role to Manager and assign.

[MichaelShpin]

Very bad design of ships, both combat units and visually

[vukica]

Ventures.

[lordmuck]

Well, here is my personal IMHO

1. No storyline.
2. No epic rewards as unique ships, stations, etc..
3. No big ships and very small selection a big ships. Odessey very weak. Earlier, the purchase of M2 class meant that the player received a very powerful ship. There was a goal to buy it and a goal to earn credits. Now this is not.

4. A ships design. Just look here. IT IS YOUR GAME. YOU CREATE THIS GAME! IT IS YOUR DESIGN THAT SHIPS

It is X3.
http://www.elite-games.ru/images/x3tc/s ... tas_m2.jpg
http://www.elite-games.ru/images/x3tc/s ... h_a_m2.jpg
http://www.elite-games.ru/images/x3tc/s ... _tr_m2.jpg
http://www.elite-games.ru/images/x3tc/s ... h_k_m2.jpg

and many, many others.. These are masterpieces. Give some rewards to yours the designers


And now, look at X4.... Free that designers

https://www.egosoft.com/games/x4/screen ... en_013.jpg
https://i.redd.it/tl9rh3p6g5221.png

And.. Are you have you seen the design of teladi ships? All ships it is just Avatar from EvE-Online It is epic fail In XBTF design Phoenix was better

5. Xenons. Why are they so harmless? Where is xenon ivasions? Where is war? Where is missions for defend a sector? Where is epic fleet battle?
6. Khaaks. Look number 5.
7. Give players a goal!! Why players must build fleet and stations?


For now, I playing in YOUR GAME: X3-AP (do X4 as X3 and add new feature and you have a great success.

8. Where is jump drive???? It is LORE! For what you remove him from the game? Please, return him! (this may be some reward for very hard missions

Totally agree, that X4 ship you linked looks like a sci fi version of Aladdin's shoe/slipper.

So I wonder if they are "listening" to the majority now? like they said in their upload that they listened to the majority and added xyz..So new ship models all around? few 100 turrets ? epic proportions of weapons to choose from that are all viable ? Better and more mission types bringing back some of the old types, like patrol sectors etc. Make the game harder? make the game addicting like X3? I mean this is supposed to be a continuation of X3 As 4 comes after 3 and you have an X in front of it all. This is a diluted and broken down version of XRebirth with way more features removed, and XRerbirth was quite bad with a ton of features missing from X3. So that is two games losing features and then losing more features.. We should be adding not removing the fun.

Yeah you have massive sectors, with a few bits and bobs in the middle, I donno why you were making it sound so exciting, there is nothing out there / no point to go look way out there.

Will we be getting any feeling of danger? risk? reward?

Currently X4 is an empty shell, and in this shell 90% of the things dont work and are poorly made/designed 10% of the things that work are frustrating to use, and you have 100% of stuff that we LOVED from X3 missing .

All that was needed was to look at X3, update the models so that they look like years and advancements have been made STICKING WITH LORE, not de-evolution and looking like plastic toys of a 4 yrold, add the surface targets turrets/shields etc that we can destroy and please make them easy to click on and target. Add this economy that is "questionable" of X4, add the "wars" that I have yet to see between factions to X3. Bring back jump drives so that carriers are worth 1cent to actually look at, boosters should use energy cells not shields! that may fix the AI during fights leaving shields at 0 and add some form of logistics and fleet resupply.

Pirates are a joke, go fly around a pirate sector in X3 and tell me how exciting it was to get from 1 jump gate to another. Pirates dont do anything in other sectors, S ships scan and pew pew thats it. Pirate sectors SCA, S ships all over the place, khaak flying around like headless chickens and the odd N , M in the mix <-- quite a repetitive pattern btw.

The only turret type viable for AI to use is tracking turrets. No wonder its spammed on every NPC ship as the rest of the turrets are useless

And for the love of whatever we all believe in can you explain how we have 1000's of crew members 100s of pilots, 100000's of workers on stations .. What are we paying them with? Are they slaves? this is supposed to stimulate economy and stuff, yet we have slaves. So why do we even have Cr in game?

Prioritise which items should be repaired by crew members I dont think I need to wait 30 mins before the engines become available for me to target and repair my self.
Manager AI is stupid.

I am sick of typing everything I think is broken coz I am sounding salty when I am not, and I always will support you / Egosoft. <--------- Very important


What I like, I like looking at the Magnetar Dock at my complex, I like (IF IT WORKED) transferring repair drones from my ship to a boarded ship and thats it, coz they do nothing and still need crew.
Trading seems chill, could use the economy screen for sure.
Ventures so far has potential but atm its not really being "used" well and yeah its beta, like the rest of the game
I like the Theory behind faction wars, but yet to see anything or sectors being taken over.
PHQ looks cool
I laugh at how the Xenon send a miner that is left alone in HOP territory to mine.


X4 is currently at the first step of a 12 foot ladder, the rest of the steps are missing and we are down here trying to reach the roof and we cant :/

[Cisor]

Well, here is my personal IMHO

1. No storyline.
2. No epic rewards as unique ships, stations, etc..
3. No big ships and very small selection a big ships. Odessey very weak. Earlier, the purchase of M2 class meant that the player received a very powerful ship. There was a goal to buy it and a goal to earn credits. Now this is not.

4. A ships design. Just look here. IT IS YOUR GAME. YOU CREATE THIS GAME! IT IS YOUR DESIGN THAT SHIPS

It is X3.
http://www.elite-games.ru/images/x3tc/s ... tas_m2.jpg
http://www.elite-games.ru/images/x3tc/s ... h_a_m2.jpg
http://www.elite-games.ru/images/x3tc/s ... _tr_m2.jpg
http://www.elite-games.ru/images/x3tc/s ... h_k_m2.jpg

and many, many others.. These are masterpieces. Give some rewards to yours the designers


And now, look at X4.... Free that designers

https://www.egosoft.com/games/x4/screen ... en_013.jpg
https://i.redd.it/tl9rh3p6g5221.png

And.. Are you have you seen the design of teladi ships? All ships it is just Avatar from EvE-Online It is epic fail In XBTF design Phoenix was better

5. Xenons. Why are they so harmless? Where is xenon ivasions? Where is war? Where is missions for defend a sector? Where is epic fleet battle?
6. Khaaks. Look number 5.
7. Give players a goal!! Why players must build fleet and stations?


For now, I playing in YOUR GAME: X3-AP (do X4 as X3 and add new feature and you have a great success.

8. Where is jump drive???? It is LORE! For what you remove him from the game? Please, return him! (this may be some reward for very hard missions

Totally agree, that X4 ship you linked looks like a sci fi version of Aladdin's shoe/slipper.

So I wonder if they are "listening" to the majority now? like they said in their upload that they listened to the majority and added xyz..So new ship models all around? few 100 turrets ? epic proportions of weapons to choose from that are all viable ? Better and more mission types bringing back some of the old types, like patrol sectors etc. Make the game harder? make the game addicting like X3? I mean this is supposed to be a continuation of X3 As 4 comes after 3 and you have an X in front of it all. This is a diluted and broken down version of XRebirth with way more features removed, and XRerbirth was quite bad with a ton of features missing from X3. So that is two games losing features and then losing more features.. We should be adding not removing the fun.

Yeah you have massive sectors, with a few bits and bobs in the middle, I donno why you were making it sound so exciting, there is nothing out there / no point to go look way out there.

Will we be getting any feeling of danger? risk? reward?

Currently X4 is an empty shell, and in this shell 90% of the things dont work and are poorly made/designed 10% of the things that work are frustrating to use, and you have 100% of stuff that we LOVED from X3 missing .

All that was needed was to look at X3, update the models so that they look like years and advancements have been made STICKING WITH LORE, not de-evolution and looking like plastic toys of a 4 yrold, add the surface targets turrets/shields etc that we can destroy and please make them easy to click on and target. Add this economy that is "questionable" of X4, add the "wars" that I have yet to see between factions to X3. Bring back jump drives so that carriers are worth 1cent to actually look at, boosters should use energy cells not shields! that may fix the AI during fights leaving shields at 0 and add some form of logistics and fleet resupply.

Pirates are a joke, go fly around a pirate sector in X3 and tell me how exciting it was to get from 1 jump gate to another. Pirates dont do anything in other sectors, S ships scan and pew pew thats it. Pirate sectors SCA, S ships all over the place, khaak flying around like headless chickens and the odd N , M in the mix <-- quite a repetitive pattern btw.

The only turret type viable for AI to use is tracking turrets. No wonder its spammed on every NPC ship as the rest of the turrets are useless

And for the love of whatever we all believe in can you explain how we have 1000's of crew members 100s of pilots, 100000's of workers on stations .. What are we paying them with? Are they slaves? this is supposed to stimulate economy and stuff, yet we have slaves. So why do we even have Cr in game?

Prioritise which items should be repaired by crew members I dont think I need to wait 30 mins before the engines become available for me to target and repair my self.
Manager AI is stupid.

I am sick of typing everything I think is broken coz I am sounding salty when I am not, and I always will support you / Egosoft. <--------- Very important


What I like, I like looking at the Magnetar Dock at my complex, I like (IF IT WORKED) transferring repair drones from my ship to a boarded ship and thats it, coz they do nothing and still need crew.
Trading seems chill, could use the economy screen for sure.
Ventures so far has potential but atm its not really being "used" well and yeah its beta, like the rest of the game
I like the Theory behind faction wars, but yet to see anything or sectors being taken over.
PHQ looks cool
I laugh at how the Xenon send a miner that is left alone in HOP territory to mine.


X4 is currently at the first step of a 12 foot ladder, the rest of the steps are missing and we are down here trying to reach the roof and we cant :/

This is how I mostly feel too. Also with a sense of humor. We want to love this game so much.

[Fazmaster]

1) Station scanning. Really Egosoft? It was boring as hell in Rebirth jusr as every stupid minigame. We clearly told you we do not wish any minigames, yet you introduce this again?

Searching small info dots at station modules is and always was the most annoying part in X:R. No-one ever liked how it was implemented, yet it still works exactly this way in v4.30. That it seem to have made it in the same fashion in X4 is hard to believe. Or has it been reworked in the way fly-by or butterrange mod does?

[dougeye]

i had to go with missions but im sure as with many other people its not the so much the content of missions but rather the rewards and scaling.

I would strongly suggest you have a quite simple, easy, medium, hard difficulty selection when starting a new game which effects player activities and rewards, im talking about the mission payments etc and speed of relation building with factions, maybe even combat scaling but i fear it needs work in its current form first.

Things like data vaults are fine with me in terms of the money you can gain, maybe their placement could be procedural each game start so you have to explore for them. The rewards may be high but you are limited to the amount of data vaults there are and it also promotes roleplaying as an explorer, this being how you make you income to start. unlike missions which just give you to much to soon.

I would even say ship pricing needs to go up, more so as sizes increase.

I would also expand the PHQ plot so its not very useful until you have put alot of time and money in.

[Otas Elite]

I would really like more Weapons. The Weapons that are in the game right now feel rather generic.
The big XL Weapons are pretty boring. They should have a slow firing speed (maybe fire every 10-20 seconds) but a large impact.
https://youtu.be/nP_mrdnA-W8?t=593 A example of how a fight between capitals should look like


Turrets have to be rebalanced. I think something like the following would make sense.
- S turrets: good against s fighters/missiles, low damage (equivalent to one s weapon), but high turn speed so they can hit S Ships.
S turrets should prioritize small and nimble targets like S Ships, Missiles and maybe other turrets.
- M turrets: good against m Ships/Hardpoints, damage should be the same as m weapons, turn speed should be low enough to make it hard hitting S ships with it.
M turrets should prioritize other M ships and hardpoints.
- L turrets: good against L Ships/Hardpoints, damage like L weapons, slow turn speed, should have no chance of hitting an S ship.
L turrets should prioritize bigger Ships/Hardpoints and completely ignore S ships.
- XL turrets: massive damage, really slow rate of fire like mentioned above. Should only hit L and XL Ships.

On ships you then mix the different turret sizes to fit the intended role the ship should play in a fight.
Destroyed Hardpoints should burn like in X Rebirth. Not really important but a nice visual indicator of damage and it looks nice.
Not every Weapons should be usable with every ship -> like in X3
The Weapon Energy/recharge Rate in X3 was a nice way to balance Ships.

List of other random thoughts:
- Ships should be more expensive, especially combat Ships. Right now there is no sense of accomplishment for getting an L/XL ship.
- The good old fight missions Protect Station/Patrol Sector with spawned enemies. I just want to have something i can fight without worrying that i completely cripple the xenon and have nothing to fight anymore.
- The Khaak. They were enemies to be feared in X2 and X3. Right now they are nothing more than a crippled race. Bring back the Khaak Cluster that just swarm you to death with many fast and small Ships. Or even better give us a Plot that reintroduces the Khaak Thread (new Khaak Queen?)
- Better Models for destroyers. Just look at X Rebirth you did something really good in that game.
- Xenon I, just give it more everything that thing should be a threat to big ships.
- More Plot, the HUB "plot" was a bad joke
- Research is also a bad joke right now 10 Minutes per research and no cost attached?
- Autopilot should do the same thing your Ship does when you let another Pilot fly your ship. -> More like X3

[Kamuchi_]

I would really like more Weapons. The Weapons that are in the game right now feel rather generic.
The big XL Weapons are pretty boring. They should have a slow firing speed (maybe fire every 10-20 seconds) but a large impact.
https://youtu.be/nP_mrdnA-W8?t=593 A example of how a fight between capitals should look like

Thanks, now I want to play X:R instead
The ship texture and lighting looks awesome and the weapon fire feels like they're actually giving a punch with the ship taking fire all over it hull and the ai not doing the 180 degree turnaround bs but actually slugging it out.

Really don't see the point of reinventing the wheel every release, port the assets over devs...

Sigh, please? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0efykPkzGk

[lordmuck]

snip...
- Ships should be more expensive, especially combat Ships. Right now there is no sense of accomplishment for getting an L/XL ship.
snip..

So when you spend a few 100 million buy one of these toys, would you feel that they are worth the price in terms of performance as in : turret numbers, weapon types, usability of the ship in question handled by the AI/player, looks, overall feeling and satisfaction of the ship ?

the L / XL ships that can be taken out by a S ship?
nah

[Shimrod]

I could check a few of those boxes but I think some focus on usability could address most of my problems.

Remote trading
- Add 'add all' wares autotrade option when setting the behavior in 'default ship behavior'
- Make it easier to identify and exclude illegal wares in ware selection list e.g. using color, or button to untick illegal wares.
- Add stats for traders/miners so I can identify underperforming ships and compare relative efficiency (e.g. mean credits per hour)

Missions
- The only missions I ever really enjoyed were xenon invasion, patrol, defend the station, and I haven't found any of these yet.
- I would also accept more boring missions due to being brief with high rewards: deliver a passenger quickly. Though only if I had a jumpdrive.
- So far my experience with X4 missions is they're a pain in the arse for low reward. I've had one sitting there for days to find a xenon ship with a specific serial number.
- If I'm in need of quick cash it is much easier to just shoot crystals off asteroids than to take missions.

Hacking/stealing/blueprints
- The game makes it necessary to carry illegal inventory wares, in case I need spacefly eggs to unlock a trader, in case for some reason I might need crafting materials etc.
- This means I end up getting randomly scanned and having to reload and lose progress.
- My suggestion would be to make only ship container wares like spaceweed illegal and NOT have illegal inventory wares
- I've tried hacking some consoles on stations but nothing seems to happen, then I can no longer interact with the consoles, it feels like a bug.

Capturing
- It vexes me that I cannot send over one of my crew to pilot the captured ship, that I have to stop what I'm doing and pilot it myself to a station to find a pilot for it.

Small scale fight
- Boosting using up shield feels wrong. Please add a separate boost power bar, like there is for shields and weapons.
- My turrets are doing negligible damage even to small ships. I've only found them useful using laser turrets to irritate enemies into bailing.
- The weapon selection is lacklustre
- Free slots for combat drones are a bit too low. I'd like to put some on traders but there aren't enough slots especially for mining ships which need both trading and mining drones.

Issues not from categories listed in the poll
- Missing Boron, Split, Terran / Aldrin
- Puny capital ships
- No MCSI
- No jumpdrive
- Small universe

[Grimmrog]

I didn't like exploration, with the current way how explorers are broken, findign those datacaches is a grind thats low on fun at all. And it involves no skill aside from being lucky.


als the most "not liking" comes form how derp the AI is in most if no any regards. I really do not even know why a game which had this working well in it's previous ones is now so bad in it.
Anythign thats depnend on pathfinding is kinda broken. and I do eman broken. With 1.5 my entire stations (PHQ) topped working because AI was stuck in calculatign as it couldn't handle pathing the asteroids aroudn the station. And of those few who were lucky and got a path, well they got stuck at or in asteroids.