[WIP] X4 Rebirth (working title) - concept stage

[St4n]

"Ja, es ist generell erlaubt Schiffs- und Stationsmodelle aus X3TC nach X Rebirth zu portieren und diese in einer Mod zum Download anzubieten, solange dies in Maßen geschieht. Ziel kann es nicht sein, dass jemand sehr viele oder sogar alle Modelle aus X3TC in einer Mod anbietet, und damit demjenigen bereitstellt, der X3TC nicht besitzt. Immerhin handelt es sich bei X3TC um ein eigenständiges Spiel."

"Yes, it's generally allowed to port Ship- and Stationmodels from X3TC into X Rebirth and to offer them in a mod as download as long as it's in a limited fashion. It's not wanted that someone offers many or all models from X3TC in a mod to someone who doesn't own X3TC. After all, X3TC is an independent game."

[KRM398]

OMG, Staberind your right! It was a proto personal Yacht, but the ones they made before became nearly frigate class...doood we got ripped off!

(and I still want at least 1 turret for drones support, after all the Rehanas is a freighter and it has 8-10)

[jerryt87]

Count me in for any testing when you get it started up. Sounds good so far.

[Informer]

You can count on me too, if you need some testing.

[TDQuasar]

Exciting project. I'm really glad that someone started this. I will try to contribute with ideas and testing.

Right now I'd have a question. The processor load seems quite heavy already with just the 4 clusters, one of which is basically lacking economy. Will an "average" PC be able to handle 200 clusters?

[St4n]

Exciting project. I'm really glad that someone started this. I will try to contribute with ideas and testing.

Right now I'd have a question. The processor load seems quite heavy already with just the 4 clusters, one of which is basically lacking economy. Will an "average" PC be able to handle 200 clusters?

This can also be messured by testing.

If the 1st "prototype" sector is created it can be multiplied.
So (for example) there is a mod with only 1 sector, a mod with 10 sectors and one with 100 sectors (all exactly the same prototype) and people can messure with their systems how much load on cpu/ram it would produce.

This would allow for setting a basic limit for the mod so it wouldn't lag like hell on an average system.

Also there is a need to consider how much "free load" will be left for running additional scripts and stuff as the mod advances.

For example: If the average system can handle arround 200 "prototype" sectors it should be considered to only put in 150 to have space for additional scripts.



Another point is optimisation. Sure there can be a lot of stuff, but if for example a script is written for some basic stuff that doesn't need much capacity running once will need 200x capacity if running for 200x sectors individually. So for everything that affects every sector (like trading scripts) it should be considered to turn it off or run a simplified version if the player isn't present in that sector. This will make the mod much more ressource friendly in the long run.
If scripts are also optimised for off-sector-stuff you may have more work in the beginning, but you won't hit a wall after you have written 50 scripts and than notice that your mod is putting too much load even on high-end PC's and you than have to start to optimise all of them while not messing up with the other scripts...

[YorrickVander]

Exciting project. I'm really glad that someone started this. I will try to contribute with ideas and testing.

Right now I'd have a question. The processor load seems quite heavy already with just the 4 clusters, one of which is basically lacking economy. Will an "average" PC be able to handle 200 clusters?

I think memory usage will be equally important here - in the games current state it chews up 1.6gb of the 2gb allowed for a 32 bit application.

EDIT : In comparsion, X3:AP with Rebalance 1.30 mod (clean start) uses only 1gb of available memory.

[Observe]

Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions! I won't be able to make much progress until after New Year.

As for memory and performance considerations, we'll have to see how well Rebirth can handle 200+ cluster. These test will be critical in determining the validity of this mod.

I am hoping that with judicious use of NPC ships and stations etc., we will be able to create a functioning population of trading and other activities without bringing the system to its knees. All of this is predicated on Rebirth being able to technically handle the large universe that this mod will require.

Thanks and stay tuned.....

[UniTrader]

i think its not the actual Cluster/Zone count which is relevant, but its more about the global Ship/Object count and the visible Ship/Object count which decide about performance.. and regarding OOS-Optimized Scripts: from what i have seen EGO has already implemented the necesary Options in the Game (attention) and uses them

[bluenog143]

1] Make the economy real and dynamic like it was supposed to be, not where ships and stations and wares, etc. are spawning out of nowhere like they do right now.

2] Remove the mini-games and gimmicks.

3] Add dynamic race and faction relations. This would go hand in hand with a dynamic economy.

4] If AI can be modded then I would also suggest looking into the AI to see if it needs some improvement or optimization.

5] Balance the weapons, shields, ships, etc. so that you don't have a puny fighter taking out a frigate (for example).

6] Redesigned UI and added management options/functionality.


These are some suggestions that I can think of. I'm no pro at this modding stuff so hopefully none of these will suggestions be unreasonable.

Also, I just wanted to mention that while X3 and the previous X's were great, they had some major shortcomings of their own. Some of the suggestions on my list were not in X3 or were implemented poorly. My suggestion is that we get back on track to what X is all about, but that we also see what X3 could have done better.

[Deleted User]

how about making a xnexus page?

[wolfpackmars2]

So, as I'm reading through this thread, the thought that keeps popping into mind is "Why not just take the things we like from X:R and port them into AP?" The list things you would need to mod would be shorter, I would think. You can focus more on the good things about X:R and less on "how can I implement the ability to change ships and fix the menus and how to add non-existent races".

Forgive me if this is a stupid question - I haven't played X:R since it's initial release so bear this in mind - what does X:R offer that X3 doesn't? Aside, of course, for Multi-threading support which is valuable and highways - whose value is open for debate.

[UniTrader]

maybe because X-R is completely diffrent from the previous titles? and most stuff easily possible in X-R is not possible in the previous games (some examples, not necesarily related to this project: no Loading while playing, eg during Sector change, far bigger Sectors, independent Turrets for Capships, far more possible turrets, the tubes in general, simply adding new Factions (or maybe even Races)*, the ability to set the Production for stuff exactly the way you want without throwing off the rest of the economy because one value depends on the other, adding nice-looking complex stations without tubes (i think we and EGO barely scratched what is possible with this Engine), easily modify/add Spoken text if someone wants to try, Triggerable Animations on Models, Vastly improved Compatibility between diffrent Mods, even the Big ones (if the Modders do it properly; DDRS + XTM/XTC anyone? ), an integrated Extension System which can memorize Extensions necesary to load a savegame)
* no one pratically did it yet, but it seems all necesary files are editable


in addition much stuff may be possible, but no one has tried / experimented with it yet, like extensible Ships (in the meaning they change their appearence; by abusing Station Building Steps/Stages) - this may even include the Skunk (by looking at the files and available Script Commands it is possible, but the research for that is too time-intensive for me since i am busy with other projects)

[mrowka]

in addition much stuff may be possible, but no one has tried / experimented with it yet, like extensible Ships (in the meaning they change their appearence; by abusing Station Building Steps/Stages) - this may even include the Skunk (by looking at the files and available Script Commands it is possible, but the research for that is too time-intensive for me since i am busy with other projects)

you did alredy answered your own statment with "Triggerable Animations on Models"

[brammie]

looking at the code, there is a LOT in the game that is not "on" or used..
i want my

Code: Select all

assets\props\weaponsystems\props_wps_player_impulseemitter

in index file but no file found ....

but one thing i miss the most:key bindings

and if we can find a way to reverse those lua file and hack into those bulky screens to make them more user friendly your half way there.

All in all the hardest part is to make some economy model work if you want to mod whole x3:tc/albion the rest is just typing a cr@P load of xml

[UniTrader]

in addition much stuff may be possible, but no one has tried / experimented with it yet, like extensible Ships (in the meaning they change their appearence; by abusing Station Building Steps/Stages) - this may even include the Skunk (by looking at the files and available Script Commands it is possible, but the research for that is too time-intensive for me since i am busy with other projects)

you did alredy answered your own statment with "Triggerable Animations on Models"

well, not really: Animations cannt add Surface Elements like Weapon Slots, Shield Gens or Platforms.. or maybe other Engines?

[Staberind]

*****Horrrible spoiler alert***"
know what a "Golem" is? No?
don't read below the ******************* bit



Presently I have a few projects on the go; 1/ finish the ^&%$($$ plot. (gotten stuck on the urv wharf 4-5 times now)

2.and the more interesting/useful one, creating a micro landing pad for the skunk to land on almost anything, no space shed, no crates, just space for 6-7 entities, also want to make the central column that has the holo skunk display different ships, or symbols, that change to a com screen like in the skunk, so, ships can have a "link to command room" instead of the frankly bizarre system of having the three or four crew do all their work from a docking platform. However, allowing you to crew a ship as well.
this will allow : crew for k, golem, and whatever other ships may require them, hopefully down to m sized ships, (golem is very interesting, see below)

Fighters and other ship_s sized things having L-AGI, (limited artificial general intelligence), aka, 1-2 more virtual crew members, allowing fleets to work more flexibly,

Tug Drone, basically another lagi, a microplatform with a small cargo (a boot) and relatively large engines, for delivering docked ships to wherever, aka, Autopilot. perhaps could be adapted to "Rescue" capitals that have been stranded.
****************************************************


I seem to have developed a fetish for the Golem, its basically a m sized "drone" and messing around in the save xml's (using the save game adjuster, then the base save) has allowed me to create them from capped fighters, albeit weaker, faster ones, with different weapon loadouts, one thing I really liked in x3 was fleets of semi identical hulls, say, mamba's, but having a fleet of 6 vanguards, 6 raiders, and so on, I think its completely possible to do this with practically any ship. although I have only seen it on fighters so far.
Right now I have to grit my teeth and get through the plot, once that is done, I can devote a lot more of my time to say, the urv wharf being able to produce up to m sized hulls, for automated mining and gathering, others are working on shipyards atm, but I will look into importing the ability for more choice in layout and upgrades, "yo dawg, we herd you like plasma, so we put plasma/ma turrets on yo plasma harvester".... "dawg"... and so on.

Oh, I forgot to ask, Observe, when you made a new zone, was it possible to change the axis of the stations?

[Ayporos]

st4n I like your idea, +1 from me.

[St4n]

Any news?

Edit: Thx Ayporos.

[Leszek]

Several smaller ideas.
All trading docks should be universal, for all trading wares for the whole station complex, for all AI vessels - may it solve the problem of queues waiting ships. "Manual" cartographic work is a bit anachronistic in the era of the interstellar civilization. Information about all known sectors, station in them and their products, should be available for each pilot. Map also required new concept for this new large sectors -smaller real view of entire sector?

Anyway, great idea. This can make the XR really epic game.