AP Community Project [Released]

[dillpickle]

As for the delivery library the one I used in OLE (its a vanilla one used in most plots) can have the player deliver wares regardless of the Stations list or if the player is in the ship or not. It delivers wares to an actor anyway.

The L0M04 library you used has to be player ship.

Code: Select all

<check_any>
  <check_value value="{player.ship.cargo.{value@{param@Cue}.{param@ID} L0M04Ware1}.exists}*{value@L0M04.Ware1Needed}" min="1"/>
  <check_value value="{player.ship.cargo.{value@{param@Cue}.{param@ID} L0M04Ware2}.exists}*{value@L0M04.Ware2Needed}" min="1"/>
  <check_value value="{player.ship.cargo.{value@{param@Cue}.{param@ID} L0M04Ware3}.exists}*{value@L0M04.Ware3Needed}" min="1"/>
</check_any>

[Ketraar]

Oops *goes in corner*

MFG

Ketraar

[jack775544]

(The hacking will be pretty much the same as the hack pirate station part of the TC Terran plot)

Why not make a real hacking instead? With some kind of computer terminal. The scanning or automatic hacking sequence is in general imho a bit dull.

That would be awesome.

But how do we implement it? (Certainly not like the Sudoku puzzle in Treasure Hunt. )

I just suggested that as I couldn't think of anything else. I do like the idea of some sort of password where the player is given hints. We do have the forum quest organisers on the project so they would be better better at making these sorts of puzzles.

Edit:@Ketraar since i am doing plot ideas anyway i think i'll officially sign up.
Minor SE, plot writer, gamestart creator

[eldyranx3]

@ Dillpickle

A1 was supposed to be the first act, setting up the corporation: name, specialty, so forth.

A2 was the second act, a long term delivery mission, where the goods you delivered would be either BIO/TECH/WEAPON or so forth. This is why the selector question has its own Act.

A3 could be a third act, patrol a region of neutral or friendly space that has a lot of BIO/TECH/WEAPON, based on what you choose in A1. You are basically protecting the market from say, a Xenon invasion or a Pirate raid or rival corp sabotage mission.

A4 could be a build station mission, plugging a hole in local economy, based on A1.

And so forth.

[Ketraar]

So here a summary of what was said regarding ideas in global terms:

• One mission/plot line independent of it being stand-alone or part of a major plot revolves around the player to create and establish his own corporation. This includes it being registered with the (local?) StockExchange. According to MarkCondren its possible to add the player corporation to the SX and it possibly return dividend (tbc) thus make it more immersive. The course/story on how to get there is still wide open, but it seems to be clear that the main scope of it will be to provide missions to the player based on the type of corporation the player decides to choose from a set of options (TBA). These missions will enhance the player’s reputation and increase his corporation’s ranking that is to be used as trigger for missions and possible rewards.
• In combination to the Corporation plotline there was a suggestion about deep space exploration using the UFJD. This would mean to possibly create special sectors where the player is to explore and search these sectors that will contain data related to technologies (fictional). The sectors should be special and possibly dangerous, new music tracks and layout design to include the feeling of adventure. The data retrieved by the player is from various sources, Xenon, Terran, Kha’ak, etc and when put together should result in that special ship reward we mentioned earlier. This ships is ultra-special, meaning it may hold most weapons known (including KE maybe) and look like a mix of tech (if possible to model). A split M6/7 base with thrown in “alien” look was a suggestion made in DevChat. If this ship hold an additional special ability is not clear at this point, it may if something suitable is found, but if it doesn’t, being unique in weapon load-out range and maybe slightly overpowered (think Yacht in Reunion) should be enough.
• Other assets can be made available as smaller rewards, like the “spare” TS+ linked in OP. If there is a new station model for the player corp HQ it would be great (maybe have a look at the X2 The Return HQ model that was never used), otherwise I generic Corp HQ Model will be used.
• In addition to these plot lines another one was thrown in that had the result for the player to get his own sector. This plotline is also wide open yet and can be elaborated on at will. The sector should not be any existing one (no claiming existing sectors) and given the other two lines are both more about think and trade, this could represent a good opportunity for a more lore loose plotline with more conquer and fighting. Still a good story is always key.
• Another possibility that now looks promising is a plotline that leads to the end of the war, or at least a halt in hostilities. Yet still to be made sure if it’s possible (need to talk to some people), but even in a own plotline or as part of an existing one, it should be kept in mind as a possibility. I’ll get back on toua!!his once more certainty comes up.
• An idea was made to add the possibility of player HQ be able to research and install equipment. DrBullwinkle took this task (maybe related to some idea EJ had). Cycrow gave permission to use his R&D script that already seems to be pointing in this direction.

This is what I would consider base to work on. Take this summary and build upon it, things that could be integrated (thinks a tutorial stuff), possible story lines ideas, character assets, design, etc. This should be our basis to work on.

State your opinions and suggestion now so that we can move on to the next stage of development.

MFG

Ketraar

[Killjaeden]

From the chat:
eldyranx3 mentioned some crazy split female scientist. That would work together with the Split Prototype corvette M6+ (similar to Hyperion) thing mentioned earlier. UniTrader mentioned some kind of Prototype fieldtesting and malfunctions.
How about this:
You -somehow- end up doing work for that female scientist. She works on some engine technology and that technology is built in a normal ship (because it's cheaper then building a new prototype just for that) - maybe a dragon, mamba or the Split TP+ since you are working for split.
You have to take that ship for a testdrive and while you are at it Betty starts complaining. Warning, malfunction ... Jumpdrive engaged. And it jumps you to some remote sector (UFJD sector?). When you arrive Betty does a system check (the board computer voice files are there afaik, lots of funny possibilities) - lots of systems offline. Jumpdrive destroyed of course. While strolling around in your wrecked ship in that unknown sector you discover a strange installation... ...
after some time you get a distorted message (static noise something like that) but can't decipher what it was. It's the scientist trying to contact you. Then you get rescued by <insert way here>

With that installation we could do various things. E.g. new powerfull other tech that would allow powerfull weapons/Power Generators or something like this, but isn't usable for the player. Or explain where the khaak went/ what happened to them (Maybe they left the universe after their defeat using this device?). Or something xenon related, ... The continuation of this plot could involve struggle to secure/control the installation with various competing factions (Corporations or Races?). To unlock it's secrets and then a (spectacular?) finale - which may result in the destruction of it if it's not necessary for canon reasons anymore.

After you successfully complete that plot you get the new Corvette prototype from the split scientist, but without the jumpdrive thingy because that exploded. So you "just" get a nice ship, but have experienced some "new technology".

Another idea is utilize technology/details we already know about X:R and use our plot to maybe introduce this technology (or the beginning of their development) into AP to "close the circle". I think ES would very much appreciate this^^ Maybe that strange "installation" (new model?) can be a starting point.

[EmperorJon]

I definitely think it should somehow cause a ceasefire between the Terrans and Argon, and as a result end the war, making AP "safe" after all plots are done.

[TTD]

I really should look in this forum more often.
Already 8 pages.

Great idea.
Nice to see a few familiar names on board too

I don't mind Beta testing ..Did quite a bit for TC.
Been giving Dilpickles TC for AP mod a thorough run through of late.

Just an idea,if it has not already been mentioned...

A reward ship,(from those not available in game yet),such as the AP Gunner,but with Docking bay operational.
(Not found a ship that will dock with it in my current game ).

[DrBullwinkle]

A reward ship,(from those not available in game yet),such as the AP Gunner,but with Docking bay operational.
(Not found a ship that will dock with it in my current game ).

There is a special reward ship being discussed, currently an M6. In order to be competitive with a Hyperion Vanguard, then it will probably need at least one dock, although that has not been discussed.

Regarding your AP Gunner, it has a single dock for M5-class ships only. So get yourself a personal Kestrel.

[TTD]

cheers for that !

Don't know how I missed that.

Would like the AP Gunner as the reward ship though

edit... running Dilpickle's mod with a few others added.
No M5 ,including Kestral will dock at AP Gunner

[ezra-r]

My suggestion if you admit any, is that you start from scratch with ships, even if they are egosoft ones, limit the numbers vastly.

Why?

* One of the biggest issues noone has solved, not even Egosoft has solved, is the ship bumping, ships in wings swarming like angry bees, making fighting wings a joke. According to what I read, the problem resides on ship design and modelling and solving it would require to revisit the modelling of all ships...

... so that's why I suggest, starting with a few, well modelled, blended in the game. A manageable number of ships for the modders (people can add their own later in).

* Focus on variety of missions, md coding, storyline.

* And last but not least, take good care game has good fps and not overloaded like some other mods which turn into a nightmare after a while due to game engine being so limited.


and...

Good luck in this new mod idea!

[dillpickle]

@ Dillpickle

A1 was supposed to be the first act, setting up the corporation: name, specialty, so forth.

A2 was the second act, a long term delivery mission, where the goods you delivered would be either BIO/TECH/WEAPON or so forth. This is why the selector question has its own Act.

A3 could be a third act, patrol a region of neutral or friendly space that has a lot of BIO/TECH/WEAPON, based on what you choose in A1. You are basically protecting the market from say, a Xenon invasion or a Pirate raid or rival corp sabotage mission.

A4 could be a build station mission, plugging a hole in local economy, based on A1.

And so forth.

Ahh.. I see now...

In which case yes it should work.

Thinking on this idea (always dangerous... ) you could do it as a trade/combat split depending on how you play the game:

• Sign up to assist in a trade capacity
  • Long term supply
  • Build Stations
  • Establish Supply Lines
  • Ferry Passengers
  • Etc...

• Sign up to assist in a combat capacity
  • Convoy protection
  • Defend Stations
  • Bumping off rivals
  • Liberating competitors assets
  • Etc...

Two routes - same outcome. Should appeal to both fighters and traders, plus replayability with two different approaches.

[DrBullwinkle]

you could do it as a trade/combat split depending on how you play the game: ...
Two routes - same outcome. Should appeal to both fighters and traders, plus replayability with two different approaches.

Yay!

(Discussion so far have been light on combat... and the game itself is already light on combat. So more choices = ).

[eldyranx3]

... and the game itself is already light on combat. So more choices =

Ive always thought that AP had more improvements and opportunity for combat, but I will admit, combat can usually be avoided in most of my plots.

@ Dillpickle: That's an amazing idea that fits well into the X mantra. In my head, I was thinking of a small series of diverse missions (A little bit of build, a little bit of combat, etc) , influenced by your corp specialty for ease of coding.

But if coders think that four separate paths in a corporate plot would be manageable, then I'm all for it I might recommend a think or build path as well, but the only downsides I could see of that is just more of the same (Ive never been a fan of follow ship / spy missions myself). Again, its all about how manageable the code would be.

[Ketraar]

@ezra-r
Sorry we are not going to make major overhaul or conversions.

Two routes - same outcome. Should appeal to both fighters and traders, plus replayability with two different approaches.

And we should still try to randomise the missions within those two major groups.

Also if any MD skilled wants to try to think of a good rank system for the player corp. just go ahead. This system needs to allows us to both reward player for completing missions and apply some sort of "prestige" value as the corp grows in assets and maybe also in reputation (if the players chooses the fight path), then a combination of both would be what we'll use to trigger the various missions/plots and/or rewards.

But if coders think that four separate paths in a corporate plot would be manageable, then I'm all for it

I'd say either two big groups like dillpickle suggested, trade and fight, where a mix of most will be included but in trade 80% are trade/think missions and 20% combat related. And the other way around for fight. This should be possible by setting a the mission quota and use a system like the TC corp missions.

Alternatively go more detailed and set 4 groups, Manufacture (trade, deliver stuff), Security (patrol, kill stuff), Intelligence (scan things, explore), Syndicate (all of the previous ones, maybe add here the less legal ones). In all of the groups should be some of all/most mission types, with the focus related to the type of corp chosen. Also this missions should (like TC corp missions) be ranked, that means that I can do 10 easy fetch missions that are worth the same "rank" as 2 hard combat ones (numbers are made up and the other way around is true too).

@DrBullwinkle
Well I think the game has quite a bit of fight (patrol, escort, kill, retrieve stolen missions and all (most) plots are quite fight oriented). In any case all the plots suggested here can include fights if the story writers think it fits. I also mentioned the the "own sector" could do for good story with some conquering and fighting. last but not least, if the stop the war is a go (still working on it) there will be quite a bit of fighting to be done too.

Last thing I'd like to throw in about missions is that we need to scale these using OBS and SRST, or similar to take in consideration both new starters and player with late game saves and their big bastu fleets and trading empires, to keep things interesting. Also we need to think of things like, when do these set of plots/missions start? AP Plots finished? Unbekanntes Feindschiff sent me an idea for link missions that may make sense to guide the player to the new story depending on which start they have chosen. (@UF maybe post it or link to it please)

MFG

Ketraar

[Killjaeden]

Syndicate

That would be interesting maybe, but i wouldn't force the player to do non-legal actions. Maybe optional that provides you a nice opportunity for... profit, or other reward (Marines? increase in Pirate notoriety?) I agree with Ketraar that most plots are mostly fight related - not enough think in the plots - so i am a little bit sceptical about the fight route, as it's usually the easier option for a player. Perhaps make it easier to progress in corp rank with long-term delivery missions? That's the real business after all^^

[eldyranx3]

but i wouldn't force the player to do non-legal actions.

Well, the idea is that if you don't want to do shady things, you won't pick a path called 'Syndicate' to begin with.

[DrBullwinkle]

Some thoughts on combat

Ive always thought that AP had more improvements and opportunity for combat

AP does have some good combat improvements, but it has fewer opportunities for combat. One of the enemy races is entirely gone (Kha'ak). The war doesn't really add combat opportunities -- mostly, it forces the player to find strategies to avoid unnecessary combat in the war sectors.

And RRF still attacks non-player races, which steals combat opportunities from the player. Since AP 2.5, RRF even steals mission targets, which really spoils the fun.

The vanilla game is almost boring, combat-wise. To make the game more interesting, I have to modify OBS.xml and TJobs to increase the action to a reasonable level.

In short, there is still more work to be done to make AP combat challenging.



@Ketraar and KJ: It is not that there are not enough combat missions. There are. They are just far too easy to be fun for the combat-oriented player.

Last thing I'd like to throw in about missions is that we need to scale these using OBS and SRST

YES!!!

That is the best answer to improving combat challenge.

OBS is something that I would really love to help with... or, at least, encourage. I have been able to modify OBS for my own game, but my attempts to make it more adaptable have (so far) been stopped by my overall lack of MD experience/understanding.

1) One thought that came to mind would be for the player to be able to adjust combat difficulty, as is possible in other games. Perhaps an entry in a t file? Or a command interface would be even better.

For example, I change line 711 in OBS.xml by adding an overall multiplier to the final score that OBS calculates. Depending on where I am in the game, I vary the multiplier from 2 to 10 or so in AP (5 to 30 in TC). If the player could modify such a multiplier by themselves, then they could choose a level-of-difficulty for missions that use OBS.

Just doing that could improve combat challenge dramatically, for probably minimal investment of MD effort.

2) Another approach is that of AOBS - Advanced Opponent Balancing System, which re-introduces the TC calculation of in-sector fleet strength to OBS. I would like to see that extended to the player's entire fleet strength. For example, if the player has a huge fleet, but begins a mission while flying a TP or scout fighter, then OBS generates a very tame opponent. It should generate an opponent equal to some percentage of the player's fleet, so that that player must call for reinforcements in order to complete the mission.

3) I really like Ulfius's Hard Mode and Extreme Mode Jobs (Scroll down the page to find the Jobs mods -- in the first post). It would be great to update this for AP, as well as adjust JobWings to increase the strength of support wings without adding a lot of small ships which cause lag.

Oh, and if major invasions are increased in strength, then they should also be reduced in frequency. Xtreme Mode is one of the most-fun mods I have ever used , but I was unable to use it full-time because there were major invasions every six minutes. I would finish fighting off one invasion, only to immediately have to fight another. It was too much of a good thing -- not enough time to play the game. Once per hour (or even two hours) would be better.

I've never been a fan of follow ship / spy missions myself.

Good point -- there are several generic mission types that could benefit from some fine-tuning. Is that something that could be within the scope of this project? For example:

• Return Stolen Ship missions for non-boardable ships should be possible to complete - or higher chance of completion, at least. Because they are mostly not possible to complete, most players avoid them.
  
  Spy missions could be more reliable to start, and more interesting along the way. Shorter spy missions, with more challenging adversaries, might be more fun.
  
  Escort convoy missions would be a lot more fun if the convoys did not get jammed up at every gate.

(If I could have only one wish from the above, it would be to improve OBS -- both for strength and player adjustability.)

.

[X2-Illuminatus]

One mission/plot line independent of it being stand-alone or part of a major plot revolves around the player to create and establish his own corporation.

As I said before, I like this idea, but I still cannot see, how it evolves around a storyline.

Another idea is utilize technology/details we already know about X:R and use our plot to maybe introduce this technology (or the beginning of their development) into AP to "close the circle". I think ES would very much appreciate this^^ Maybe that strange "installation" (new model?) can be a starting point.

Personally I would like to see something like this combined with the exploration and discovering of new technology. So what about the following idea as basis for a plot:

Jonferco is slowly recovering from the happenings in the Albion Prelude Plot and they're planning to continue with their Highway project. Unfortunately, no one of their previous customers or supporters is currently interested in investing money into this. The Argon, who were originally supporting the Highway construction in Albion, are so busy with the war against the Terrans that they won't spend any money on projects like this now. The Paranids, who were interested in the highway technology, weren't not really impressed by the chaos and saw it rather as a confirmation for the incompetence of the unholy ones. So Jonferco is forced to look for other interested parties, which they find beneath the Split.
While testing new weapons, a group of split military scientist around the famous <enter female Split name here> found an unknown sector cluster. However, due to heavy anomalies (not working jumpdrives and scanners etc.) the Split weren't able to fully explore it. Winning an secret bidding, Jonferco is now supposed to explore and open up the sectors for the Split by building their highway system. Unfortunately Jonferco officials were a bit to optimistic about the abilities of their corporation, so they will need help from someone. Someone, who is not only interested in money, but is fascinated by the unkown. Someone like <enter playername here>.

This would allow a variety of missons and mission types:
- Explore: Explore the new sectors and find out, what's causing the anomalies.
- Trade/Build: Help Jonferco to build the highway system through this new sector cluster.
- Fight: Fight against the Unkown that waits in the shadows of the new sectors. Defend the new technologies against those, who believe the techs shouldn't be in Split hands (for example the Borons).
- Think: Unlock the secrets of the new sector cluster and combine them into technologies the races of the X-Unvierse haven't seen before.

This doesn't really introduce new technologies, from which we know that they will be in X Rebirth though. However, seeing that highways are supposed to be the main way of travelling in X Rebirth, I have the feeling that their appearance in X3 Albion Prelude could be a bit bigger. That means, if the whole X-Universe wants to fly in/on them, they have to be built somewhen.

In all of the groups should be some of all/most mission types, with the focus related to the type of corp chosen.

I have to agree with Ketraar on this one. Instead of having a clear only fighting and/or only trading plot, it is, especially for story-telling, far more interesting to have lots of different mission types. It's also a bigger challenge for the player, if he has to do different things on a rotating basis.

[dillpickle]

But if coders think that four separate paths in a corporate plot would be manageable, then I'm all for it I might recommend a think or build path as well, but the only downsides I could see of that is just more of the same (Ive never been a fan of follow ship / spy missions myself). Again, its all about how manageable the code would be.

I wouldn't split it four ways, it would get boring very quickly following a build route, also the 'think pool' is fairly limited when it comes to active missions -> passenger transport, scan missions, deliver/return ship or follow ship.

I'd keep as two combat or 'other' throw in a few variations or options
"Pilot, we had you lined up for a delivery mission, but if you fancy a change of pace then we have a convoy that needs escorting to wherever...'

maybe a few 'custom' missions to break up the generic sameness...

Possibly link missions - 'We need you to build a wasp missile factory in sector X, and supply it with x units of energy, y units of food and z units of ore, once production is in full swing we'll need you to collect x missiles and deliver them to Y.'

@DrBullwinkle
Changing OBS, and other 'core files' (apart from possible bug fixes) will most likely be frowned upon if we hoped to get this signed.

The OBS will work on what you tell it to for difficulty, in most part this is players combat rank - if you tell it that the players combat rank is actual rank + 10, then you'll get more enemies, this is capped at level 30 (Xtreme), in which case you run it twice or more... Similarly if the player has a fleet.

I have an OBS system that builds fleets, rather than ships on pure numbers, so instead of getting a pair of M2's and three M5's based on the OBS numbers, you'd get a more realistic M2, a couple of sM7's some M6's possiibly an M8 and a squad of fighters. Could be used as an addition, but not as a replacement for the mainstream OBS.