Is there a 72 gun ship in the game ? (Vanilla or other)

[Makita]

I don't want to be a nuisance but is there a guide of some sort to help me with adding a unique ship like mention above, i wouldn't mind a unique colossus. But most guides seem old and only refer to xsp importing vs just duplicating an existing ship. Thanks

[apricotslice]

I don't want to be a nuisance but is there a guide of some sort to help me with adding a unique ship like mention above, i wouldn't mind a unique colossus. But most guides seem old and only refer to xsp importing vs just duplicating an existing ship. Thanks

Not really. But read Modding 101 for the basics all the same. (in the guides thread sticky)

If you not doing what I'm doing here, which is adding more guns, then its just a copy and paste within x3editor. Copy the colossus, paste to end of file. Change the ID to something unique. Create your own text file (read modding 101 first), add a new number pair into page 17 with the name and description of your ship. Add the first number into the number slot in the ship editor. Do whatever other changes you want to the ship. Add both files to the game. Start game.

Thats as basic as it gets for adding a new ship.

In the case here, we are fundamentally altering the basic ship, so I do it in notepad first, then use the editor.

Btw, if you want to change the guns the turrets can use, you need to create new turrets in tcockpits. This means cut and paste to end of file, rename, change the guns it can use. Put in game, start game, exit game, then edit tships and change the turrets to the new ones.

[DrBullwinkle]

@Apricot: Sorry to hear about the migraines. I understand that they can bring the strongest man to his knees. Sometimes literally. *Ouch* (It also changes my understanding of another comment that you once made about "medicinal chocolate.")

I would think that the extra 12 guns would be main guns. So an 84-gun "maximum" (for the UI) does make some sense, although I have not tested it.

It does work ! All the guns fire.

Thankyou.

Yay! I knew you could do it!

Now, if you spend five (clear-headed) minutes looking at the turrets in X3 Editor 2, then you will see that you can make your Bigger Mother without my help.

Start by adding ONE extra gun. When you can do that successfully, then you will be able to add as many as you like.

I will help you, if you run into trouble.

is there a guide of some sort to help me with adding a unique ship like mention above

Yes. I have written several mini-guides about modding ships (Ship Tricks):

Adding Guns to a Turret <== Colossus Prototype M0

Add Main Guns to Any Ship <== Brigantine with main guns

How to add Docking Bays to Any Ship <== Tyr with docking bays

These guides are very nearly copy-and-paste. They are meant to be very easy to reproduce in your game. In some cases, you do have to change ID's or two-digit ordinal numbers, but that is very easy to do. If any of the instructions are unclear, let me know and I will update them (as I already did for Apricot's comment about TShips).

===================================================
In the case of the Colossus Prototype M0, I have already changed the ID for you. So it is almost copy-and-paste:

1) Copy and paste the Colossus M0 to the end of TShips.

2) Increment the number of ships at the top of TShips. Look at the third line of TShips. If it says something like "50;401;" then change it to "50;402". The exact numbers may vary.

That's all.

Then, to test:

A) Drag and drop your edited TShips into the X3 Editor. You should see the Colossus Prototype at the end of the Argon listing. Or search for "Colossus" in the left-hand panel of the X3 Editor.

B) If you can see the ship in X3 Editor, then it is probably good. Start the game, and use the Cheat Package to create a ship of type Colossus Prototype.

===================================================
The mini-guides do assume that you know how to edit TShips using X3 Editor 2, which is intended to be easy enough that it does not need a guide. My guides also assume that you know that TShips is a text file that can be edited with a good text editor.

In addition to Apricot's advice (above) to copy-and-paste with a text editor, then view (or edit) in X3 Editor:

- Always add AND DELETE to and from the end of any of the files in the types folder. Adding or deleting in the middle can break your saved game. Obviously, do not delete an item that is in use in your saved game.

- BACKUP your types folder, .cat and .dat files, and saved games before you experiment. If you want to be extra safe, then backup your entire game folder as well.

- Do not edit files inside of vanilla .cats. Instead, extract the files onto your hard drive (in the appropriate sub-folder, mimicking the .cat). Then edit from those files on your disk. That way, if you make a mistake, then you can simply delete or rename your file and the game will revert to the vanilla version.

- "Old" guides are still relevant. Most modding techniques have not changed since X3:Reunion (or even X2).

That is pretty much all you need to know. Theoretically, anyway. Maybe I will roll these four posts up into a guide. Someday. But don't wait for that... give it a try. Kaplah!

[Makita]

So far this is what i was able to understand and complete: I've open the Tship, copied the colossus then pasted to end, gave the ID a unique name, gave the name ID (31112) also a unique number, then went to 17 (boardcomp.object) created a new entry 31112 for the name of the new ship, then 31113 for the description. but i seem to missing something still!

[DrBullwinkle]

So far this is what i was able to understand and complete: I've open the Tship, copied the colossus then pasted to end, gave the ID a unique name, gave the name ID (31112) also a unique number, then went to 17 (boardcomp.object) created a new entry 31112 for the name of the new ship, then 31113 for the description. but i seem to missing something still!

OK, you are skipping ahead. Not in a bad way. But it is easier to debug if you take one step at a time.

Forget the names, for now. Ignore Apricot's comment about changing the ID, because he did not actually look at the ship before he wrote that.

Simply:

1) Copy and paste the Colossus M0 to the end of TShips.

2) Increment the number of ships at the top of TShips. Look at the third line of TShips. If it says something like "50;401;" then change it to "50;402". The exact numbers may vary.

That's all.

Then, to test:

A) Drag and drop your edited TShips into the X3 Editor. You should see the Colossus Prototype at the end of the Argon listing. Or search for "Colossus" in the left-hand panel of the X3 Editor.

B) If you can see the ship in X3 Editor, then it is probably good. Start the game, and use the Cheat Package to create a ship of type Colossus Prototype.

When that works, then go ahead and Create a Custom Name for Your Ship.

[Makita]

Awesome, got the prototype in game, all seems to be working but i only count 56 guns, and how do i add it to a shipyard? ps: thanks to the both of you for the help so far

[DrBullwinkle]

Awesome, got the prototype in game, all seems to be working but i only count 56 guns, and how do i add it to a shipyard? ps: thanks to the both of you for the help so far

Yay! I am glad that you got it working, Tool-Man!

Yes, the Colossus M0 is the result of a previous request from Apricot. He wanted "a Colossuss with as many guns as a Tyr" (56). So I whipped up the Colossus Prototype and documented the process so that he could do it himself. I also increased the power generator and the shields to match the Tyr while I was at it; making the Colossus Prototype a more powerful carrier than any vanilla ship. It is a true M0 carrier/destroyer hybrid.

The 72-gun ship is something that Apricot will create when he figures out how easy it is to add extra guns.

To add the Colossus Prototype to a shipyard:

C) Target the desired shipyard in-game.
- Open the Cheat Package.
- Double-check that the "target" of the Cheat Package is the shipyard.
- Click "Add Ships to Shipyard"

D) Still in the Cheat Package; Do one of the following:

- Turn "Keep Factory/Dock stocked" "ON". Or...

- Click "Add/Remove wares in station hold", choose the Colossus Prototype, and change the amount.

[Makita]

Thanks a ton, now all i need is a 72 gun Titan Prototype

[DrBullwinkle]

Thanks a ton, now all i need is a 72 gun Titan Prototype

Well, you could race Apricotslice to see which of you can do it quicker.

He has the advantage of experience. You have the advantage that he is probably still asleep.

There is only one trick to adding more guns to an existing turret. That is to re-use the turret ordinals when adding extra guns.

Take a close look at the Turrets tab for the Colossus Prototype. Examine the guns on one of the turrets, and you should be able to see how it works.

Do the same thing, for every turret on your Titan. (Of course, do ONE gun first, and make sure that it works, before you repeat several dozen times.)

A couple more tips:

- Instead of editing the normal Titan, use the X3 Editor to copy the Titan. Then "Paste to End". ALWAYS "paste to end", because X3 Editor does not do a "paste" properly.

- X3 Editor will automatically change the ID for you. You can change it to something more meaningful if you like. Just be sure that it is unique.

- You can change the "Variant" on the General tab to make your Titan a "Raider", "Prototype", "XL", or other. The numbers go up to about 20... just try different numbers until you get a variant that you like.

The variant is not super important (except that it should be unique if you want it to work with the Jobs file, but that is a more advanced topic). Mostly it is just a quick way for you to know which ship is which.

[apricotslice]

*yawn*

I always redo the ID, so I dont look at what the editor does with it. All mine are APRICOT_something. I dont use the game convention.

As said, never delete a ship that is in your save file, that breaks the save. But you can alter ships already in the game, although the effects can be anything from doesnt happen until a new ship is spawned, right through to funny things happening. eg. If you add hull, then immediately you start the game, every ship of that type in the game suddenly has less than a full hull, and their speed drops proportionately.

I'll have a look at the rest of the guns if I get a chance today.

But I'm not sure about adding front guns. Would be nice, but how do you add guns when their isnt a gun in the model. I know its easy enough to add them using the editor, but I've done that before and they would not fire.

YES, assemble those mini-guides into a full guide and put it in its own thread and submit to the guides sticky. Thats important stuff, and needs to be officially documented and findable.

Adding ships to a shipyard - if you download my add HQ and MO to boron shipyard script (from my TC or AP download area), then use the script editor to change the HQ to your ship to whatever race shipyard you want, this is the best way of adding them to a game permanently.

[DrBullwinkle]

*yawn*

Uh oh, Makita, the race is on! Apricot is awake now.

I'm not sure about adding front guns. Would be nice, but how do you add guns when their isnt a gun in the model?

How many times do I have to give you the link for the instructions before you will read them?

Add Main Guns to Any Ship

1) Copy and paste the code block into your scene.

2) Check the ordinals -- they must be unique and contiguous.

2a) Optional: Check the position of the main guns; especially the third number which is front-to-back. Ideally, you want that value to be somewhere close to the front of the ship.

3) Add the new guns to the main cockpit (Turrets tab) in TShips (using X3 Editor).

4) Done. Go shoot something.

[apricotslice]

Be gentle, its only 9.55am and I dont really get going until 11. And I dont do caffiene anymore, so I cant jump start that way.

Can I do number 4 first ?

Ok. Will keep that on this computer all day as a reminder until I look at it on my games computer.

[DrBullwinkle]

It's all good, Apricot. I might poke fun at you for having the attention span of a goldfish (hence the "Dory" quip), but your guides do help a lot of people. (Including me).

I'm just teasing; with good-natured intentions.

Yes, go shoot something first. That will give Makita a chance to get ahead in the 72-Gun Mega-Destroyer-of-Doom race.

YES, assemble those mini-guides into a full guide and put it in its own thread and submit to the guides sticky. Thats important stuff, and needs to be officially documented and findable.

OK... Here you go: Ship Tricks: Mini-Guides (Bullwinkle)

[Makita]

ya. still working on that part but its now my bed time !!!

[apricotslice]

Sorry, I just dont get it.

X3editor2 could make it easier to add guns by having a copy gun facility, but no, that would be too easy. Or even better, this turret has x guns on y model mounts, and you type 12 into x and 2 into y and it automatically creates the entries. Entirely too useful to be done.

I cant see where each gun starts and ends in the text version, so I can copy and paste. Where does 1 gun record start and end ?

I think I added in the front guns on the scene text. But again, not at all sure how to add those in tships.

Cant you put me out of my misery and do it for me ? 12 guns in each turret and 8 on the front.

I'll call it an Apricot_Bullwinkle if you want !

Edit : And no, I cant find where the dock is.
Edit2 : I found the dock code. But the documentation to change it isnt there. The guide to changing them has most of its links gone, just get 404 errors. Nice descriptions in a wiki of the docks, but nothing available on how to use them.

So what do I need to change to make the dock into a dock everything up to M6 dock ? Or even a dock everything dock ?

[nap_rz]

Thanks a ton, now all i need is a 72 gun Titan Prototype

no, you need something like this

http://bbs.deeptimes.org/data/attachmen ... sp3b91.jpg
http://bbs.deeptimes.org/data/attachmen ... t56t9f.jpg
http://bbs.deeptimes.org/data/attachmen ... u3etwg.jpg
http://bbs.deeptimes.org/data/attachmen ... lawqtt.jpg
http://bbs.deeptimes.org/data/attachmen ... yqz5vr.jpg
http://bbs.deeptimes.org/data/attachmen ... flydf0.jpg
http://bbs.deeptimes.org/data/attachmen ... emaaub.jpg

that with 120 turrets...

[DrBullwinkle]

Turret Guns

===================================================
Video Tutorial: Add 12 Guns to a Turret (with fast Copy and Paste trick)

Updated TShips entry, with three turrets now complete:

Apricot_Bullwinkle_Moose-3_Turrets_Complete
===================================================


===================================================
If you want the name, as well, then add the following two lines to Page 17 of your 8686-L044.xml file. (If you do not have one of those, then add the lines to Page 17 of *any* t file that is loaded by your game.):

Code: Select all

 <t id="4533">Pirate Bullwinkle Moose</t>
 <t id="4534">It is not known whether this legendary pirate maurader is fact or fiction. It is rumored that nobody who has seen it has survived to tell the tale.</t>

===================================================



Read on if you prefer details written out:

Let's use the vanilla Colossus as an example, since everybody has it.

0) Before we begin, backup your TShips. That way we can revert if we muff anything up.

Also be sure that you are not flying a Colossus in your saved game. Best to save in an empty sector, flying only a fighter (or some other ship), with no Colossus in-sector.

1) Let's begin by looking at the front turret. (vanilla Colossus, Turrets tab). (NOT the cockpit: the "front" turret).

For a moment, let's just focus on the gun itself, which is Model/Scene(1). Ignore the right-hand part (Model/Scene(2)).

2) The first two guns are on turret 3. The second two guns are on turret 4.

See how that works?

Let's put two more guns on turret 3.

3) Click the gun icon. Fill out the forum to duplicate the first gun on turret 3:

Number of laser parts = 1
Primary Model = ships\props\bigturret_dummy
Scene node index = 3
Secondary Model = ships\props\bigturret_rightweapon
Scene node index = 3
Click "OK"

Now repeat for the second gun. Click the gun icon. Then:

Number of laser parts = 1
Primary Model = ships\props\bigturret_dummy
Scene node index = 3
Secondary Model = ships\props\bigturret_leftweapon
Scene node index = 4
Click "OK"

You should now see 6 guns on your front turret.

3a) Copy and Paste Tip: There is a lot to do. I speed up the process by doing three passes:

- I add all of the turret dummies in a single pass; changing ordinals as appropriate.

- I then make a second pass; adding the rightweapons. Always ordinal 3, for this example turret.

- Then I make a third pass; completing the leftweapons. Ordinal 4 in this example turret.

When I do it this way, I can fill out a turret in about 3 minutes (without rushing).

4) If you have any .xsp ships in your game, then open and close the Plugin Manager to allow it to regenerate its own version of TShips (which will be TShips.pck in your types folder on disk). Give it a few seconds to complete its work before starting the game.

5) Test in game.
Still in your empty sector; use the Cheat Package to Create a Ship of type Colossus. Enter it, then enter the front turret. Do you have six guns? Do they all fire?

If so, then you have successfully added two more guns to your front turret!

6) Duplicate the above process for turret 4.

Click the gun icon. Fill out the forum to duplicate the first gun on turret 4:

Number of laser parts = 1
Primary Model = ships\props\bigturret_dummy
Scene node index = 4
Secondary Model = ships\props\bigturret_rightweapon
Scene node index = 3
Click "OK"

Now repeat for the second gun. Click the gun icon. Then:

Number of laser parts = 1
Primary Model = ships\props\bigturret_dummy
Scene node index = 4
Secondary Model = ships\props\bigturret_leftweapon
Scene node index = 4
Click "OK"

You should now have 8 guns in your front turret. Test in-game if you are uncertain.

7) Duplicate the process AGAIN for turrets 3 and 4 ==> 12 guns!

You're done! (Well, done with the front turrets, anyway). It should look like this:

[ external image ]

8 ) Now do the process again for the right turret. When you are done, it should look like this:

[ external image ]

Here is the TShips entry for the ship so far. Copy and paste to the end of your TShips file and increment the ship count in line 3 of TShips:

Apricot_Bullwinkle_Moose-Two_Turrets_Complete

At this point, I recommend that you complete the turrets, then test the ship, before moving on to other features.

[apricotslice]

that with 120 turrets..

If you mean turrets, then 114 of them wont fire. 6 maximum in the game.

If you mean guns, then anything over 72 is most likely not going to fire. Depends on how they got done. But 12 guns to a turret is the maximum the game is hardcoded for.

@DrBullwinkle

Yes I meant text. Doing a lot of copy/paste is easier in the text. The editor is so cumbersome at doing multiple guns that it obviously isnt used for them much. If I'd written the program, I'd have rewritten it after the first attempt to add guns to a ship.

Not looking at the scene for guns. Yes for dock.

0) Using a copy in a test folder. Adding to types in the game overwriting my mod.

1) ok.

2) ok.

3) *sigh* its all that repetitive typing that does my nut in. Ok, now I can access this on the game computer and cut and paste.

4) No. I mod.

5) Grandmothers and Eggs.

6) ok, that is starting to make some sense.

Front guns, ok, will see.

I can definitely can call it a Moose. I have a Camel and Mule in the range of my ships already. But I was thinking of it from your forum name in the game perspective. I like naming things in the mod for people who help me out.

What does the docking bay code look like ? I cant see any mention of an actual word in it anywhere. I can find 19026 and 27, but no words. I copied the scene file from the argon m1 one, and renamed it.

Re undocking, I wonder if Bounce would fix that ? I'm running it in my mod.

[DrBullwinkle]

5) Grandmothers and Eggs.

Is that some Australian term that I don't know? Does it mean, "beer"?

Never mind; I figured it out.

Please remember that I am writing these instructions for *everyone*; not just for you. I know that you know half of the stuff already.

6) ok, that is starting to make some sense.

Yay!

I can definitely can call it a Moose. I have a Camel and Mule in the range of my ships already. But I was thinking of it from your forum name in the game perspective. I like naming things in the mod for people who help me out.

Sure, call it what you like. "Bullwinkle" is fine. I thought of "Moose" because that is my surname: Bullwinkle Moose. But whatever you prefer.

What does the docking bay code look like ?

1) Open types\dummies in X3 Editor. Use the TDebugger.

2) Navigate to 19026.

3) Double-click on "flags".

4) Delete the word "FIGHTER" and insert "STANDARD" in its place.

Re undocking, I wonder if Bounce would fix that ?

I do not think so. But Gazz wrote a pair of tools that seem custom-made for the job:

Docking Lockup Fix

Safe undocking / jumping

[apricotslice]

"Dont teach your grandmother to suck eggs" is the full expression. I dont know if its Aussie slang or not. Usually means no need to state the very obvious. Testing ships adding them to the game is something I've done hundreds of times.

Ah... Dummies ! Not looking in the scene at all, but in Dummies. Doh ! So dont need a new scene, just need to change that reference in the scene within dummies.

I'll try Bounce and see what happens. If I blow up, I'll try both of those.