POLL: Should Egosoft make X4 VR compatible?

[Ergoswot]

Hi all. Following multiple VR threads, I wanted to start a poll to find out how many X4 users on this forum own a VR headset and/or would be interested in owning one for X4. This would help to give Egosoft an idea of if it would be worth it or not.

Options are:

YES - I own X4 and DO own a VR Headset
NO - I own X4 but DO NOT own a VR headset and have no intention of buying one
POTENTIALLY - I own X4 and would consider buying a VR headset IF the game supported VR

Cheers!

[LameFox]

Every now and then I go look up the state of VR to see if I want one. Still haven't found it that appealing yet.

Plus, the performance in this game isn't great in a lot of circumstances. I have a feeling I'd hate the low fps of things like fighting fleet battles even more if I was wearing a headset. So even if I got one I don't think I'd specifically be all that enthused about using it in X4—and especially if they simplified the game world because of that.

[X2-Illuminatus]

The last request for VR support is just a few threads further down with a reply from CBJ why VR support isn't feasible:

I'll just quote what has been said on the last dozen or so times this was brought up.

The issue with VR ... is not just about whether there's a market for it, but whether the cost of implementing it relative to the size of that market actually makes sense.

Implementing VR is not as cheap and easy as the VR manufacturers would have you think. Aside from the overhead of supporting numerous different VR implementations in order to capture enough segments of the fractured market to make it viable at all, making it comfortable to use means cutting down on key elements of the game to achieve the high framerates required, adapting the user interface and control system, and making numerous other smaller changes, all of which takes a considerable amount of work. Our experience with XR VR showed that while it was a really nice addition to the game, and great fun to work on, the numbers simply didn't add up. Nothing that has happened since then has convinced us that that situation has changed, and we cannot afford to keep throwing money at VR on the off-chance that it may one day pay off.

[Ergoswot]

The last request for VR support is just a few threads further down with a reply from CBJ why VR support isn't feasible:

I'll just quote what has been said on the last dozen or so times this was brought up.

The issue with VR ... is not just about whether there's a market for it, but whether the cost of implementing it relative to the size of that market actually makes sense.

Implementing VR is not as cheap and easy as the VR manufacturers would have you think. Aside from the overhead of supporting numerous different VR implementations in order to capture enough segments of the fractured market to make it viable at all, making it comfortable to use means cutting down on key elements of the game to achieve the high framerates required, adapting the user interface and control system, and making numerous other smaller changes, all of which takes a considerable amount of work. Our experience with XR VR showed that while it was a really nice addition to the game, and great fun to work on, the numbers simply didn't add up. Nothing that has happened since then has convinced us that that situation has changed, and we cannot afford to keep throwing money at VR on the off-chance that it may one day pay off.

This is not a 'request' for VR, it is a poll to find out the level of userbase and interest in VR. Obviously I read that thread and It is not that VR is 'not feasible', it's that Egosoft don't believe it's worth doing for the cost benefits it brings. This poll is to gauge the level of actual VR ownership or interest in the userbase, at least those active on the forum.

[chew-ie]

No. Egosoft as a small company did their part with X:Rebirth VR. VR as a tech is clearly not there [at the customer market] yet so Egosoft shouldn't waste resources on that - they have a fairly complex game to manage and I'd like them to improve on that one, not some experimental tech.

Having said that - I know there are some enthusiasts which enjoy VR. This is okay - but a niche company shouldn't take the risk here. If we have reached the time where every game has a VR release, then we could (and should) talk again - but until then my initial point is my IMHO on that topic.

[X2-Illuminatus]

Obviously I read that thread...

Considering that in your opening post you mention that you want to help Egosoft with a decision while in that very thread I linked it is mentioned that a decision has been made already, it wasn't that obvious to me that you actually read that thread. Your poll also doesn't address any of the points why Egosoft thinks VR isn't financially viable (like having a fractured market due to different VR headsets and softwares). Therefore, I don't understand what your poll adds to that topic.

Anyway, good luck with your poll.

If we have reached the time where every game has a VR release, then we could (and should) talk again ...

Is that similar to the time when every game had a multiplayer part?

[dayang]

The argument made in the thread was that Egosoft are under the impression that there would not be enough income to justify the investment to implement VR 'properly'. Not that it was simply financially impossible. In the same thread I suggested simply opening the game up some more to allow modders to do the rest.

So far the poll indicates that CBJ is correct, the userbase simply isn't there (although only 14 respondents thus far).

Having a poll is basically market research and useful to Egosoft either way. Either, it is evidence that the userbase is not there to justify the investment, or if there is a significant user-base, first is that a 'real' user base and second does the size of that user-base justify the up-front investment. This poll would certainly not be the deciding factor. (tbh, I would launch a VR addition as a kick starter: You want vr, pay up front please).

[birdtable]

What absolute tosh ,, " I don't own a VR set so I think Egosoft should not bother" .... I don't own a xbox or ps5 so we should not make games for that format either... X Rebirth in VR was absolutely brilliant and I did buy a VR Oculus purely to play Rebirth and was not disappointed in the least. I can still remember some of the imagery from the game that just blew me away. I totally understand the financial implications of a VR version for X4 but be under no misconceptions X Rebirth in VR was stunning..

[Vectorial1024]

The map itself will be very very difficult to get right in VR, so I don't think this is something us gamers may influence. It is likely the decision was made even before 1.0 was released, hence the current design of the map.

X Rebirth obviously planned to have some "simple-mode" in its future, so the initial UI (e.g. the conversation radial menu, not the X4 7.0 style radial menu) was surprisingly "difficult" to use in PC, but easy to use in PS edition and VR edition. The UI was later salvaged by adding back a sidebar menu for the PC users.

[dayang]

The map itself will be very very difficult to get right in VR, so I don't think this is something us gamers may influence. It is likely the decision was made even before 1.0 was released, hence the current design of the map.

X Rebirth obviously planned to have some "simple-mode" in its future, so the initial UI (e.g. the conversation radial menu, not the X4 7.0 style radial menu) was surprisingly "difficult" to use in PC, but easy to use in PS edition and VR edition. The UI was later salvaged by adding back a sidebar menu for the PC users.

Nah you just leave the map as is. In game it's currently displayed on a 2d screen in front of the pilot. So if the pilot looks left, they will look out of the cockpit window, the screen wouldn't warp around them. It's not like in other games where the player is taken out of the world briefly. The only reason why the look commands don't work is because they are locked out to be used for something else.

Tbh all we really need is an additional camera for the second eye (for depth) and that would solve it for the vast majority of people that are interested in VR. Plenty of controls are already map-able so it's just a matter of tinkering around the edges. I don't think the extra camera is something the modding community can do, but the rest of it, as long as the devs provide the hooks, the modders will take care of themselves.

The radial menu just needs a better visual design, UI in this game is... terrible both from a Keyboard & Mouse and from a Controller point of view. I don't think it's possible to play this game using only one method, it's certainly not comfortable to do so... ship controls are very uncomfortable to use via keyboard.

[MakerLinux]

The poll lacks options. I have VR fully working and understand that X4 is not a proper game for playing in VR. I don't want developers wasting time on this. Not all games need to be VR.

[humility925]

I had VR but not want X4 on VR, it's just not comfort to use, and long term not fun to use, I'm comfortable with computer, keyboard, and mouse, it's safe and comfortable long term.

[hebrux]

you need one more option in your poll.

I own a VR headset but I do not want X4 to become a VR compatible game.

I think it'll take resources away from other more important projects. Like adding functioning Diplomacy to the game.

[Casishur]

you need one more option in your poll.

I own a VR headset but I do not want X4 to become a VR compatible game.

I think it'll take resources away from other more important projects. Like adding functioning Diplomacy to the game.

That would also be a poll option.
Only the VR API interface would be enough. The modding community would then only have to do the rest.

[Captain_Canard]

you need one more option in your poll.

I own a VR headset but I do not want X4 to become a VR compatible game.

I think it'll take resources away from other more important projects.

Ditto, except I think it'll take resources away in from the CPU & GPU, which are already struggling. I also don't think I could read the tiny map fonts (which I already enlarge) in my Oculus Rift.

BTW, I love Elite Dangerous Legacy in VR, but I just don't think X4 can pull it off. Maybe X5?

[humility925]

you need one more option in your poll.

I own a VR headset but I do not want X4 to become a VR compatible game.

I think it'll take resources away from other more important projects.

Ditto, except I think it'll take resources away in from the CPU & GPU, which are already struggling. I also don't think I could read the tiny map fonts (which I already enlarge) in my Oculus Rift.

BTW, I love Elite Dangerous Legacy in VR, but I just don't think X4 can pull it off. Maybe X5?

No, X5 would need more powerful from CPU and GPU, almost every new X need more computer power, so only way VR need improve more tech and power, not game itself, to handle of game that demand it, but most people couldn't afford it anyway with wage low and high cost living currently, at least in USA, I'm not sure about other part of world since I don't live in other part of world at this point.

[Hackod]

It would be great if there was a full-fledged opportunity to look around the spaceship cockpit through VR. I guess this topic has already been beaten to death, but still. If the developers are worried about their reputation, they could at least release an unofficial mod—people would scream with joy. And another part of the audience, who hadn't played X4 before, might become interested in the game.

[Alan Phipps]

@ Hackod: Even assuming that the Egosoft devs found the method, will and time to do that officially, it might somewhat benefit players already owning VR headsets - but I doubt that many would go out and buy a VR headset just to look around X4 cockpits. It would also have to be another 'gameplay option' (which devs dislike adding) so as not to distort cockpit display for non-VR players.

Be aware that all 'unofficial mods' are released by 3rd party independent modders, and not by Egosoft.

[vvvvvvvv]

but I doubt that many would go out and buy a VR headset just to look around X4 cockpits.

There are plenty of headset owners, and VR severely lacks good games. VRs certainly is big enough push to draw people into Elite Dangerous and No Man's Sky, which are not that great in flatscreen, but become either interesting (Elite) or Must Play (No Man's Sky) experiences.

There are 3 million headset users on steam and estimated 20 million worldwide, I believe.

For an example of how this could be done, see Euro Truck Simulator, which has VR as experimental option which is not listed anywhere but works. That too, is a game that has niche appeal in flatscreen but become more interesting in VR.

Another thing to keep in mind is t hat systems like Virtual Desktop allow comfortable play at low framerate, meaning you don't need to reach stable 75 Hz (people play X-plane at 40 fps), and since the time of Rebirth VR new standard were made to ease development for multiple different devices, namely OpenXR.

[alt3rn1ty]

No thanks.
I have been VR curious in the past, tried a friends setup a couple of years ago .. It was crap.
Very system heavy (on top of a game that is already pushing the limits on the best of machines).
And it feels really weird, can't explain it but it makes me go funny, its not for me.