Best Freighters and Miners: A Report

This forum is the ideal place for all discussion relating to X4. You will also find additional information from developers here.

Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum

Vectorial1024
Posts: 304
Joined: Mon, 30. Jul 18, 04:16
x4

Best Freighters and Miners: A Report

Post by Vectorial1024 »

Best Freighters and Miners: A Report
(Last updated for game version v2.50)

Greetings!

I've always been wondering what freighters are the best freighters to use in general situations, but I don't seem to find any text online talking about this. So here I am, presenting my findings to all. Hopefully some of us can get inspired by this.

(Skip to results below if you are not interested in the steps.)

Special Notes

As I am not paying too much attention to here and so won't be updating this anytime soon, I want to point y'all to this resource that got posted below, which is quite similar to what I was originally trying to do, but with something extra (e.g. extra perspective of analysis, data from X4 3.0 Vendetta, etc.)
sentenced-1989 wrote: Wed, 11. Nov 20, 01:45
Aquitaine wrote: Sun, 24. May 20, 04:35 Sorry to necro this thread but I wonder whether:

- This information could be updated with Split ships, and - more importantly -
- Somebody could make a mod with some of these summaries for the encyclopedia, since despite X4 having been out for some time and already released DLC, the number of 'No information available' entries is astounding?
Regarding something similar to this, with Split ships as well you can check here: https://quantum-anomaly.herokuapp.com/x4/efficiency/
Regarding the number of 'No information available' entries, yea, game is full of them. Mostly only Argon ships get them, everything else not so much.
Introduction

You have some wares to transport from station A to station B. However, there are a lot to transport, and you want to minimize the time required to transport all of them.

"Just do more ships!" You said. "More ships can reduce overall time!" But some ships can reduce overall time more effectively than others. At least you should feel like this, seeing the many seeming "similar" choices for ships.

You remember the age-old myth:
  • Use ships that are faster: faster ships take less time to travel, so should reduce overall time
  • Use ships that have larger cargo size: such ships take less trips, so should reduce overall time
So which myth should you believe in? Do you believe only one of them? Both of them? Randomly pick one of them? It's getting difficult to decide.

So let's unravel the mystery and bring an end to this struggle.

Definitions

Let's define some terms to be used in the text.

To prevent the possible terror of 4-dimensional units, I define a new unit Volume (symbol "V"). 1 Volume is equivalent to 1 meter cube of cargo space,
i.e., 1 V = 1 m^3 cargo.

I define a new concept delivery rate (DR), to describe the effectiveness of a ship in cargo delivery. Higher DR means stronger effectiveness in cargo delivery. DR should have the following properties:
  • When travel speed increases, DR should increase.
  • When size of cargo hold increases, DR should increase.
  • 1 ship with speed 1 and cargo hold 2 V should be just as effective as 1 ship with speed 2 and cargo hold 1 V. (When former ship completes 1 round-trip, latter ship will have completed 2 round-trips, but both ships have delivered the same amount of stuff)
Hence, I define that the DR of a certain ship is given by

DR = u * v, where u is the max travel speed of the ship, and v is the max cargo hold of the ship

Since speed and cargo size are counted in the thoudands, we can expect the value of DR to rest in the millions.

Finding 1: Sentinel Variants Are Always Better

It was by surprise that I discovered this finding.

The following relationship between Vanguard and Sentinel variants can be easily verified:
  • The max cargo hold of the Sentinel Variant is exactly 1.2 times of the Vanguard Variant.
  • The mass of the Sentinel Variant is roughly 1.2 times of the Vanguard Variant. (I say roughly, because the game could only display mass up to the nearest ton; decimal values are discarded.)
Let's modify Relationship #2 to be"... is exactly 1.2 times of ..." for simplicity.

Let u be the max travel speed of the Vanguard Variant, and v be the max cargo hold of the Vanguard Variant. Then the DR of the Vanguard Variant is u * v.

But how about the Sentinel Variant?

Intuitive understanding of physics dictates that when the mass of the object increases by a factor of 1.2, then the speed at which this object may travel should decrease by a factor of 1.2; i.e., the speed decreases to (1.2)^-1 times of the original, which is 0.83 times. However, since we are talking about the "travel speed" of ships, and because of the underlying math surrounding drag and max speed, it was found that the max speed of Sentinel Variants are about 0.86 times of the Vanguard Variants.

Hence, we have DR of Sentinel Variant = (0.86 * u) * (1.2 * v) = 1.032 * (u * v).

This shows that, no matter the chassis, Sentinel Variants are always better than Vanguard Variants in terms of delivery rate.

From this point onwards, I will be using data from the Sentinel Variant to present my findings.

Finding 2: Delivery Rate of Ships of Different Categories

Before we continue, let's be clear: the game uses PAR Combat Engine Mk3 // PAR All-round Engine for calculating the max travel speed of ships. I guess this means the game determines that PAR engines are best.

Having standardized to the PAR engines, I calculated the DR of all the Sentinel Variants, grouped together by their roles.

Data source is the awesome Roguey website. (https://roguey.co.uk/x4/ships/) As to the S Miners, which the Roguey website did not include, data is copied from the v2.5 in-game encyclopedia.

S Freighters
  • ARG Callisto: 2804607.6
  • ARG Courier: 7479595.2
  • TEL Guillemot: 3983961.6
  • TEL Magpie: 6637699.2
  • PAR Tethys: 6346860
S Miners

Note: As of writing, in v2.5, S gas miners do not exist, so S miners are implicitly mineral miners.

Also note: there is not any Vanguard/Sentinel distinction in this category.
  • ARG Courier (Mineral): 5536700
  • TEL Magpie (Mineral): 5047000
  • PAR Tethys (Mineral): 4756500
M Freighters
  • ARG Ides: 12800520
  • ARG Mercury: 12996672
  • TEL Tern: 10437216
  • TEL Vulture: 10548432
  • PAR Demeter: 16116000
  • PAR Hermes: 15816528
M Solid Miners
  • ARG Drill: 6634404
  • TEL Manorina (Mineral): 6155400
  • PAR Plutus (Mineral): 7209540
M Gas Miners
  • ARG Sunder: 6725472
  • TEL Manorina (Gas): 6647832
  • PAR Plutus (Gas): 7690176
L Freighters

There are quite some choices here in the ARG side.
  • ARG Incarcatura: 70783200
  • ARG Mokosi: 68527800
  • ARG Shuyaku: 135571200
  • ARG Sonra: 127422720
  • ARG Veles: 71340480
  • TEL Heron: 76230240
  • TEL Pelican: 78523680
  • PAR Helios: 89003880
  • PAR Selene: 85971960
L Solid Miners
  • ARG Magnetar (Mineral): 47323080
  • TEL Crane (Mineral): 53458560
  • PAR Chthonios (Mineral): 62603520
L Liquid Miners
  • ARG Magnetar (Gas): 47159280
  • TEL Crane (Gas): 49003680
  • PAR Chthonios (Gas): 62603520
Finding 3: Best Ships In Each Category
  • S Freighters: ARG Courier
  • S Miners: ARG Courier (Mineral)
  • M Freighters: PAR Demeter
  • M Solid Miners: PAR Plutus (Mineral)
  • M Liquid Miners: PAR Plutus (Gas)
  • L Freighters: ARG Shuyaku
  • L Solid Miners: PAR Chthonios (Mineral)
  • L Liquid Miners: PAR Chthonios (Gas)
The ARG Courier and the ARG Shuyaku definitely deserves some extra attention. The Courier is a fast ship with little cargo space, while the Shuyaku is a slow ship with large cargo space. They represent the two myths mentioned in the "Introduction" section respectively, Courier the "fast ship" myth, and Shuyaku the "large ship" myth. You might think both would not be practical, and that a mix of these two myths should be the best. And yet, both of them singlehandedly outperform all other options in terms of Delivery Rate.

Conclusion

I now have a new understanding on why HOP seems to squash the Argons every time when I play. You can see easily that M Freighters are the most common type of freighters used by NPC. Since Paranid M freighters are superior, and HOP can build the even more superior Sentinel Variants, they are capable of distributing wares more effectively than the Argons. Over time, this results in a higher rate of HOP shipbuilding than Argon shipbuilding. And combined with HOP's small territory and the good highway networks that they have, HOP becomes a very challenging opponent to fight against.

"Know yourself and your enemy, so that all battles can be won". This should provide some insight as to how to defeat the HOP, from a logistics perspective.

Of course, actually choosing what ships to use depend on other factors, such as range and cargo size. You will face problems if you only use L Freighters to do all kinds of tasks: L ships are bulky and not maneuverable when travelling, and it will be extremely inefficient to use L Freighters to deliver, let's say, only 100 energy cells. And, if you are trying to do trading in dangerous sectors, perhaps you should just straight up use the TEL ships; they have stronger hulls and perhaps more weaponry than your other ARG and PAR options.

But still, this guide should point you to the right direction once you have decided what types of ships to use in your trading fleets.
Last edited by Vectorial1024 on Thu, 12. Nov 20, 11:06, edited 1 time in total.
The future awaits.

X4 Foundations mods:
Civilian Fleets: (Obsolete for X4 7.0+) Managing your civilian ships has never been easier.
Station Logistics: Managing your station networks has never been easier.
Market Discovery: Find Black Market Traders; also rerolls them.
Logistics Optimization: Improve your station traders; improve your trade stations!
teleportationwars
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri, 12. Jul 19, 14:03

Re: Best Freighters and Miners: A Report

Post by teleportationwars »

Before we continue, let's be clear: the game uses PAR Combat Engine Mk3 // PAR All-round Engine for calculating the max travel speed of ships. I guess this means the game determines that PAR engines are best.
Where did you get that idea?
Vectorial1024
Posts: 304
Joined: Mon, 30. Jul 18, 04:16
x4

Re: Best Freighters and Miners: A Report

Post by Vectorial1024 »

teleportationwars wrote: Mon, 26. Aug 19, 09:36
Before we continue, let's be clear: the game uses PAR Combat Engine Mk3 // PAR All-round Engine for calculating the max travel speed of ships. I guess this means the game determines that PAR engines are best.
Where did you get that idea?
When you go to Encyclopedia and view the individual entries of the ships, let's say the Demeter Sentinel, you see something like "Travel speed (PAR M Combat Engine Mk3)".

Perhaps it's related to whether you have bought the blueprints of the engines, or whether you have discovered those engines before. Anyway, this should show that even the game agrees that PAR engines are the best.
The future awaits.

X4 Foundations mods:
Civilian Fleets: (Obsolete for X4 7.0+) Managing your civilian ships has never been easier.
Station Logistics: Managing your station networks has never been easier.
Market Discovery: Find Black Market Traders; also rerolls them.
Logistics Optimization: Improve your station traders; improve your trade stations!
User avatar
ballti
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed, 29. May 13, 11:50
x4

Re: Best Freighters and Miners: A Report

Post by ballti »

Nice.
Now you have best ships on paper, what about test "trade 1 to 4 sectors": undock go to +1 sector and buy item then return on 1st station. I think this is ultimate test.
My problem was trafic jam on gate, it was expensive to change all miners to "biggest cargo". Im still not sure if it was the best solution becouse sometimes was still mini trafic jam and biggest cargo miner is slow from idle in traffic jam to gate..
Wargasm
Karmaticdamage
Posts: 718
Joined: Fri, 16. Sep 11, 00:15
x4

Re: Best Freighters and Miners: A Report

Post by Karmaticdamage »

Everything paranid is better. Including their game start. Speed is the key to survival for traders. The Hermes vanguard may not be the most efficient trader, but it is the fastest and thus least likely to die.
burger1
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri, 21. Aug 09, 22:51
x3tc

Re: Best Freighters and Miners: A Report

Post by burger1 »

Teladi sentinel carriers make good traders.
Imperial Good
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri, 21. Dec 18, 18:23
x4

Re: Best Freighters and Miners: A Report

Post by Imperial Good »

ARG engines are usually the best since they have highest travel speed. PAR are usually the worst since they are combat orientated so have fantastic boost at the cost of worst travel speed. 80% or more of the time your trader will be in travel speed and so Arg Travel Mk3 makes a huge difference.

The highway loop makes a huge difference in favour of TEL ships. TEL ships move the most volume but are slow except when moving around the highways in which case they are insignificantly slower than other ships (highway speed + flight speed). For this reason core volume movement is best done with TEL.

Speed makes a huge difference with regard to pirating. TEL ships easily die to even S pirates while PAR ships can easily flee most pirates especially deadly M.

M miners have a mining loop delay which means that those which finish in full cycles (minimal wasted time) have a huge efficiency improvement.

L ships are very effective for mining in sector as they have fantastic travel speed and high volume. Their efficiency dramatically drops when having to use any sort of gate due to gate queue logic. L miners can lose mining drones when in sector which turns their operational area into a hazard for you to avoid.

Generally it is considered that TEL have the best M miners and PAR have the best M traders. TEL M traders are better when servicing the highway loop but any sort of major deviation causes them to lose out to PAR massively. PAR are mostly considered the best for their pirate resistance as well as being effective in all deployment situations. PAR M traders also have less capacity which can be a benefit when it comes to small volume movement where auto trade logic often fails to full large volumes with a trade.

For food and energy S traders are best because these wares use little volume and small amounts. M traders moving the ware will often run mostly empty when auto trading.

In reality there is little difference between the two and one can always compensate with more ships or better anti pirate protection.

L traders are only for manual micro management use. In which case the Shuyaku is by far the best moving the most volume at good speed. It also is quite tough compared with the others.
taztaz502
Posts: 914
Joined: Sun, 17. Nov 13, 12:22
x4

Re: Best Freighters and Miners: A Report

Post by taztaz502 »

I'll stick to my mercury sentinels, only ever lost one that's because it went venturing into xenon territory for some reason.

Bought a vulture once from the ali wharf and a pirate took it out within like an hour so now i'm reluctant to switch (but i think that's because it had crap weapons, my mercury's wipe out most pirate threats.).

Only problem i've had with my mercury is they get scanned quite a lot so drug running is pretty much hit and miss. Weirdly i only deliver to pirate stations and freeports sadly they still get scanned right outside the station and drop all their stuff. Items like this should be legal in freeports and especially pirate stations but when you pick them back up the station turns hostile and incinerates you.
User avatar
mr.WHO
Posts: 9138
Joined: Thu, 12. Oct 06, 17:19
x4

Re: Best Freighters and Miners: A Report

Post by mr.WHO »

It bizzare me why Argons have so many L-size freighters when I only ever use Shuyaku sentinel.

I wish there would be even XL freighters and miners as Shuyaku are too small for me.
j.harshaw
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT
Posts: 2170
Joined: Mon, 23. Nov 15, 18:02

Re: Best Freighters and Miners: A Report

Post by j.harshaw »

taztaz502 wrote: Tue, 27. Aug 19, 14:04Weirdly i only deliver to pirate stations and freeports sadly they still get scanned right outside the station and drop all their stuff.
Would you happen to have a save where there are police ships around a pirate station? If it's those very small ones, they'd have to be very close for the save to be useful.
taztaz502 wrote: Tue, 27. Aug 19, 14:04Items like this should be legal in freeports and especially pirate stations but when you pick them back up the station turns hostile and incinerates you.
What determines a ware being illegal is the owner of the space, who acts as police faction of that owner, and what that police faction considers illegal. So if, for example, you are close to a pirate station in space owned by the Antigone Republic which is policed by the Argon, you would be apprehended for carrying anything illegal to the Argon.
Vectorial1024
Posts: 304
Joined: Mon, 30. Jul 18, 04:16
x4

Re: Best Freighters and Miners: A Report

Post by Vectorial1024 »

mr.WHO wrote: Tue, 27. Aug 19, 16:29 It bizzare me why Argons have so many L-size freighters when I only ever use Shuyaku sentinel.

I wish there would be even XL freighters and miners as Shuyaku are too small for me.
According to the in-game descriptions there are actually two sets of L freighters: the Mokosi/Veles pair, supposedly used by the Republic, and the Shuyaku/Sonra pair, supposedly used by the Federation. The Incarcatura is kind of in-between.

I think I've read somewhere that v3.0 will introduce trading ships "larger than before". So I am looking forward to it.
The future awaits.

X4 Foundations mods:
Civilian Fleets: (Obsolete for X4 7.0+) Managing your civilian ships has never been easier.
Station Logistics: Managing your station networks has never been easier.
Market Discovery: Find Black Market Traders; also rerolls them.
Logistics Optimization: Improve your station traders; improve your trade stations!
Aquitaine
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue, 9. Dec 03, 19:51
x4

Re: Best Freighters and Miners: A Report

Post by Aquitaine »

Sorry to necro this thread but I wonder whether:

- This information could be updated with Split ships, and - more importantly -
- Somebody could make a mod with some of these summaries for the encyclopedia, since despite X4 having been out for some time and already released DLC, the number of 'No information available' entries is astounding?
Imperial Good
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri, 21. Dec 18, 18:23
x4

Re: Best Freighters and Miners: A Report

Post by Imperial Good »

I would not take the information in this thread too seriously as it is mostly theoretical and now quite dated. What one should take from it is that all faction traders and miners operate in the same order of magnitude as far as moving stuff goes. Which to use should be based on personal preference or other characteristics instead of purely a theoretical haulage number for one type of movement.

L ships are also a lot more practical as station auto traders now since they do more often try to move full loads of wares.
sentenced-1989
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat, 24. Oct 20, 23:47
x4

Re: Best Freighters and Miners: A Report

Post by sentenced-1989 »

Aquitaine wrote: Sun, 24. May 20, 04:35 Sorry to necro this thread but I wonder whether:

- This information could be updated with Split ships, and - more importantly -
- Somebody could make a mod with some of these summaries for the encyclopedia, since despite X4 having been out for some time and already released DLC, the number of 'No information available' entries is astounding?
Regarding something similar to this, with Split ships as well you can check here: https://quantum-anomaly.herokuapp.com/x4/efficiency/
Regarding the number of 'No information available' entries, yea, game is full of them. Mostly only Argon ships get them, everything else not so much.
PrivatePanic
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun, 1. Nov 20, 19:41
x4

Re: Best Freighters and Miners: A Report

Post by PrivatePanic »

Regarding efficient L miners, I considered mining speed more crucial than travel speed. It turns out the Chthonios is still the winner. Speed helps in moving about the collection zone, but crucially, the Chthonios deploy drones from dedicated launch tubes. This avoids pile ups of incoming drones competing with departing drones for landing pads.

Also high travel speed is nice, but while piloting my Shuyaku it seemed like it took two sectors to achieve maximum travel speed. So, unless you can cross a sector and hit the first jump gate still in travel mode and pop out on target for jump gate two, the extra speed was not achievable. This was with an ARG travel drive. I switched to PAR combat drives later so the NPCs would spend less time waiting for travel mode charging. And NPCs always stop at a gate anyway.
Tempest
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue, 11. Dec 18, 12:23
x4

Re: Best Freighters and Miners: A Report

Post by Tempest »

i don't have any hard numbers or evidence, but the Split ships seem to be doing pretty well, the miner variants top off the solid + liquid storage at a pretty damn decent speed. (dropped 100 Alligators at one of my stations which only consumes ICE)

it is pretty hard to beat the Split Mk.4 combat drives

haven't looked too closely at the Wyvern yet, but it seems to be doing equally well, on the trading front ; Boa + Buffalo are also solid choices

Chthonios + Hermes were my previous favorites.

just wish i could order ships with mods already fitted (got enough modding parts available)
Exceptional ship mod (Drag) + Exceptional engine mod (Vikas) seems like a great startingpoint for both traders & miners
AMD 5800X|Gskill 4x8GB 3800C14 (MCLK:1800 for Coupled mode)|Gigabyte X570 Elite F37|TUF3080|Samsung NVME 980 Pro 250|ASUS PG279QE 2560x1440@144
Image
dtpsprt
Posts: 2853
Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
x4

Re: Best Freighters and Miners: A Report

Post by dtpsprt »

Tempest wrote: Wed, 11. Nov 20, 15:48 i don't have any hard numbers or evidence, but the Split ships seem to be doing pretty well, the miner variants top off the solid + liquid storage at a pretty damn decent speed. (dropped 100 Alligators at one of my stations which only consumes ICE)

it is pretty hard to beat the Split Mk.4 combat drives

haven't looked too closely at the Wyvern yet, but it seems to be doing equally well, on the trading front ; Boa + Buffalo are also solid choices

Chthonios + Hermes were my previous favorites.

just wish i could order ships with mods already fitted (got enough modding parts available)
Exceptional ship mod (Drag) + Exceptional engine mod (Vikas) seems like a great startingpoint for both traders & miners
Some (most actually) times the "actual" numbers are either misleading or irrelevant. Statistics will tell you what you want them to tell you, especially in comparisons. I just compare the numbers, depending on what I want any individual ship to do. The superior speed of the Split Vessels is very good for "global" movements, while if your refining plant is close to the resources (like you found out first where they are and built it right next or into them) or your stations on the supply chain are close enough, the superior cargo hold of the Teladi vessels is unparalleled...
User avatar
mr.WHO
Posts: 9138
Joined: Thu, 12. Oct 06, 17:19
x4

Re: Best Freighters and Miners: A Report

Post by mr.WHO »

I don't bother with min/maxing.
In early game you're limited by reputation, so usually you won't be able to get freighter/miner you want and later on you can pick anything you want in big amount, so you don't care for extra few percent in performance.
sentenced-1989
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat, 24. Oct 20, 23:47
x4

Re: Best Freighters and Miners: A Report

Post by sentenced-1989 »

Vectorial1024 wrote: Mon, 26. Aug 19, 09:16 As I am not paying too much attention to here and so won't be updating this anytime soon, I want to point y'all to this resource that got posted below, which is quite similar to what I was originally trying to do, but with something extra (e.g. extra perspective of analysis, data from X4 3.0 Vendetta, etc.)

Thanks for the link up there. Your guide was actually template to what I was trying to do so I've built upon it. If I never stumbled on it, I would prolly still be using the generic medium transporter that closes shipyard sells!

Return to “X4: Foundations”