[AP] Plasma Burst Generator WAY overpowered in OOS battles

[swatti]

Anyone else notice this, its been broken since TC atleast.
I got a pirate to bail and left behind two of these, seemingly a lot better then the stats would say... But! In Out-Of-Sector battles theres something badly broken with these, my Blastclaw can kill corvettes with reletive ease...

So far ive found no transport that can survive an encounter with something equipped with these OOS.

EDIT: Also, a lasertower is beaten by dukes freight transporter... Seriously, WTF!?

[Promethium]

I dunno, I really like the PBG.

I don't use them often, and I hardly ever see them, but when I do you get that "I'm getting the hell out of here" feeling, because an M3 or two with one of those can rip an M6 to shreds.

At least to be they're that rare awesome weapon that you don't want to mess with. If they were more common it might be a big problem, but I hardly ever see them.

I completely agree on that lasertower thing though, that's just messed up.

[cheakytoast]

I thought PBC's were completely uneffective OOS but more than deadly in sector

Lasertowers IMO should never be placed on their own since they can easily be taken out by small pirate raids. I usually use about 4 together although if i'm trying to defend my property from M6's i'll probably try and place around a dozen or so.

I know there was a thread about LT getting a shield boost (up to 1GJ i think), anyone know if this can be done by the player?

[Legionos]

I dunno, I really like the PBG.

I don't use them often, and I hardly ever see them, but when I do you get that "I'm getting the hell out of here" feeling, because an M3 or two with one of those can rip an M6 to shreds.

At least to be they're that rare awesome weapon that you don't want to mess with. If they were more common it might be a big problem, but I hardly ever see them.

I completely agree on that lasertower thing though, that's just messed up.

How odd, every damn argon nova has those bloody PBG's in my game.

[swatti]

Most pirates & Yaki have PBG's.

Why cant OOS-combat just be "simplified" X vs X

Shield + Hull = Hit points
Weapons = DPS/damage per second

Weapon range decides when DPS starts and thats it. Missiles(and fire %) would make larger hits now and then.
Turrets in missile-def mode = less DPS, more chance to not get missile hits.

Smaller ships SHOULD have specialties.
M5's should be able to dodge sertain missiles and larger weapons with very high chance. This way large ships wont annihilate your curier just by flying by it, but you cant kill capitals with a swarm of M5's

M4's are interceptors, so they should have high hit-rate against any fighter. Maybe tougher against other fighters too or something else matching their role

M3's "should not get one-shotted", as in no weapon should do more then, lets say 30% of dmg to M3's. Another way to survive a flyby from a big capital in middle of battles.

Bombers & Missile ships should have hit-rate that wont go below sertain percentage(against capitals) to keep them usefull in OOS battles too.

This way OOS battles would create sertain tactical dept without having to change most weapons or give them different oos-stat or behaviour. Fighting outside sectors could be very interesting and even fun.
It would be VERY different and "unrealistic" compared to being in sector but this way there would be a proper way to calculate outcomes and equipping different ships with different weapons could make a huge difference in the battle. Needles to say, targeting priorities need to be looked at too.
Right now its just: "Red dot goes close to green dot" - "Green dot vanishes" (or vise versa)

[JDCollie]

I think PBGs are broken in general. Yes, the AI has difficulty using them effectively, but in the hands of a player and mounted on a moderately agile ship, they are hellspawned flamethrowers that use distilled suffering mixed with despair for fuel.

[Cycrow]

Most pirates & Yaki have PBG's.

Why cant OOS-combat just be "simplified" X vs X

Shield + Hull = Hit points
Weapons = DPS/damage per second

Weapon range decides when DPS starts and thats it. Missiles(and fire %) would make larger hits now and then.
Turrets in missile-def mode = less DPS, more chance to not get missile hits.

Smaller ships SHOULD have specialties.
M5's should be able to dodge sertain missiles and larger weapons with very high chance. This way large ships wont annihilate your curier just by flying by it, but you cant kill capitals with a swarm of M5's

M4's are interceptors, so they should have high hit-rate against any fighter. Maybe tougher against other fighters too or something else matching their role

M3's "should not get one-shotted", as in no weapon should do more then, lets say 30% of dmg to M3's. Another way to survive a flyby from a big capital in middle of battles.

Bombers & Missile ships should have hit-rate that wont go below sertain percentage(against capitals) to keep them usefull in OOS battles too.

This way OOS battles would create sertain tactical dept without having to change most weapons or give them different oos-stat or behaviour. Fighting outside sectors could be very interesting and even fun.
It would be VERY different and "unrealistic" compared to being in sector but this way there would be a proper way to calculate outcomes and equipping different ships with different weapons could make a huge difference in the battle. Needles to say, targeting priorities need to be looked at too.
Right now its just: "Red dot goes close to green dot" - "Green dot vanishes" (or vise versa)

if thats how u want OOS, then u should just play TC

[Promethium]

I dunno, I really like the PBG.

I don't use them often, and I hardly ever see them, but when I do you get that "I'm getting the hell out of here" feeling, because an M3 or two with one of those can rip an M6 to shreds.

At least to be they're that rare awesome weapon that you don't want to mess with. If they were more common it might be a big problem, but I hardly ever see them.

I completely agree on that lasertower thing though, that's just messed up.

How odd, every damn argon nova has those bloody PBG's in my game.

Odd. In mine they seem pretty rare. I see them occasionally by pirates, but that's about it.

[kurush]

But! In Out-Of-Sector battles theres something badly broken with these, my Blastclaw can kill corvettes with reletive ease...

You mean Kha'ak corvettes or M6 in general? Because something with PBG easily kills things bigger than itself even in TC and in AP kyons are even weaker. Overall, OOS and IS performance seam to be similar...

[swatti]

if thats how u want OOS, then u should just play TC

I did, a lot. I quit cause there was nothing to do in the whole galaxy. The war in AP might be quite silly and simply built but hey, its something to do.

OOS battles seem quite the same in AP and TC. I still think they should be simplified into "numbers vs numbers" with bit more dept to them.

[Gazz]

I still think they should be simplified into "numbers vs numbers" with bit more dept to them.

That's what's been happening since the dawn of ti... well, X.

Plasma Burst Generator WAY overpowered in OOS battles

True.
It currently does 4x the hull damage it was supposed to do.

If you want to blame someone - I assigned that value. =)


But see the bright side!
In TC, just about every laser in the game did like 10x as much OOS damage as it does in AP.
That it's now down to a relatively minor inaccuracy on a single laser is still a big step forward.

[swatti]

What im looking for is a bit more understandable and predictable OOS-combat. Also quite a lot slower too. Something i can react to and not just rush in hoping to save my ship that actually was waporized in a nano-second.

Different weapons SHOULD have different behaviour, i dont blame you, no, i thank you. You made a weapon different from all the other "funny colored lasers"

Sadly some weapons do insane amounts of dmg while some dont. PBG also does huge shield-dmg, most below corvette-targets simply vanish as my fighter gets close in OOS-combat.

With the "numbers vs numbers" -thing i meant two novas going against eachother would be 100% equal if equipped identical. Seeing "clones" duke it out would be stupid and boring ofcourse but i doubt that would happen. Ive been testing this.

The battles should play out like board-game and like i said, slow. The dept would come from ship-stats, weapon-stats, missiles and specialties in ship-classes.

[Bobucles]

What im looking for is a bit more understandable and predictable OOS-combat. Also quite a lot slower too.

This is a pretty tall order. The universe is big, ships are slow and fragile, and combat is fast. As I understand it OOS combat is done in 30 second chunks; that's a lot of time in a dog fight!

You can artificially deflate ship damage, but that makes its own set of issues. Shields regenerate at normal speed OOS, so if ships deal too little damage, they will never kill anything! Battles will last forever.

It currently does 4x the hull damage it was supposed to do.

Yeah, but that value is 30 times larger than the OOS values for any other weapon! I guess this matches the obscene damage output that the weapon normally does, but damn. That's a lot.

[Gazz]

The battles should play out like board-game and like i said, slow.

You can have that.
Edit types\TBullets.txt and reduce the OOS damage values of all lasers.

Yeah, but that value is 30 times larger than the OOS values for any other weapon! I guess this matches the obscene damage output that the weapon normally does, but damn. That's a lot.

Are you considering the rate of fire?

Yes, it's a little off but not by a factor of 30. =P

[Legionos]

I dunno, I really like the PBG.

I don't use them often, and I hardly ever see them, but when I do you get that "I'm getting the hell out of here" feeling, because an M3 or two with one of those can rip an M6 to shreds.

At least to be they're that rare awesome weapon that you don't want to mess with. If they were more common it might be a big problem, but I hardly ever see them.

I completely agree on that lasertower thing though, that's just messed up.

How odd, every damn argon nova has those bloody PBG's in my game.

Odd. In mine they seem pretty rare. I see them occasionally by pirates, but that's about it.

no joke, every argon nova escort i fight when i hit a weapon convoy has PBG's

[Promethium]

I dunno, I really like the PBG.

I don't use them often, and I hardly ever see them, but when I do you get that "I'm getting the hell out of here" feeling, because an M3 or two with one of those can rip an M6 to shreds.

At least to be they're that rare awesome weapon that you don't want to mess with. If they were more common it might be a big problem, but I hardly ever see them.

I completely agree on that lasertower thing though, that's just messed up.

How odd, every damn argon nova has those bloody PBG's in my game.

Odd. In mine they seem pretty rare. I see them occasionally by pirates, but that's about it.

no joke, every argon nova escort i fight when i hit a weapon convoy has PBG's

I never see them much because I don't fight Argon ships, but I always notice I occasionally take some friendly fire.

That shit burns through your shields FAST.

[Bobucles]

Are you considering the rate of fire?

Yes, it's a little off but not by a factor of 30. =P

I look at the only stat that matters: the ratio between IS and OOS damage. The PBG hits pretty damn hard compared to other weapons of its class!

Finding good damage values for the PBG is insanely difficult. The damage output pretty much changes with game performance, so it's tough to find something that works.

[Gazz]

I look at the only stat that matters: the ratio between IS and OOS damage. The PBG hits pretty damn hard compared to other weapons of its class! :D

I have long stopped working with exact ratios. With weird lasers like PGB / PSG that is hopeless.
PBG do damage based on the exact range to the target.
PSG do damage based on the size and orientation of the target.
None of that is available OOS.
Best you can do is assign a ballpark value and let it be.

I'm far more surprised that noone has noticed that PSP always do zero damage OOS.
That's a far bigger factor. =)

[A5PECT]

I'm far more surprised that noone has noticed that PSP always do zero damage OOS.

[ external image ]

Please tell me this is on the changelog for the January patch.

[Bobucles]

Best you can do is assign a ballpark value and let it be.

True enough. But the PBG is stupidly powerful. To properly grasp its power OOS takes some high damage! At least it's accurate on that count.

I'm far more surprised that noone has noticed that PSP always do zero damage OOS.

I had to change some OOS values, and there were a few 0's in there. I just made it fit with all the other numbers, didn't even notice what weapon it was.

It's pretty important for the PSP to do damage though. Terran capital ships kind of need it to not die.