X3:TC Feedback

[Khaak_Slayer]

Well, i was extremely excited about this for some time. I even put off playing it for a few days since the release date so i could finally complete Reunion, which i never managed to do before, due to hard drive crashes etc. However having just finished it, i realise that i absolutely love it for its flesh and story. It is so immersive, has so much atmosphere and depth, and even humour. The characters were awesome.
Anyway, I felt that TC would play better if i complete reunion first.

With TC on the other hand, it feels like all of that immersive flesh has just been hacked off, and the bones have been painted with a lot of glossy paint.
The BBS has been disabled, why? I was looking forward to reading the news of the universe, hearing about how the other races are up to their old tricks, and seeing their reactions to the new Terrans. Sure, it was a bit irrelevant in Reunion, but it's often the irrelevant things, and the 'fluff' that makes a game more believable, and even more realistic. It feels like the game has been streamlined mainly for individuals with slightly deficient depth, or who don't have the concept of playing a role in a game. This is most noticeable to me by the giant Credit or Lightbulb icons above stations with missions available in them. Seems like it's become another first person arcade-like shooter. it is even reminiscent of Dark Star One, which, admittedly, was a fun game, but it had almost zero depth, something i played X2 and X3R for for a very long time

I am yet to hear my character even speak in this game, it appears as though i'm just playing as captain(s) generic. Just another one of those many pilots you happen to collide with occasionally in Reunion.

It seems they've added quite a few kool features to the engine, at the severe expense of what the game originally stood for. I don't feel a part of the world, i feel completely disconnected from it infact.
Perhaps i'm just jumping to conclusions about it, but this is my first impression after all. Hopefully things will pick up. I certainly hope they do.

[dimothy10]

Must say i have to agree with mr slayer about the BBS. I do like the new mission system but the lack of news and random articles on things various is a bit of a shame. All in all though game seems pretty good so far. Love the new graphics tweaks etc. look forward to getting my first fab!!

[ldwater]

Hey all,

I was really looking forward to this game, hoping that they had improved on the vast and exciting game of X3.

Unfortunatly it seems little more than a whole bunch of new ships, a new interface and badly spoken voice acting.

[Note: This isn't in any particular order - sorry! ]

The Good

- The interface is very nice and still quite easy to use (if not a bit annoying after a while)
- The new start points are good and doesn't force everyone in one path without a good storyline.
- The mouse aim is a nice touch and handy for people without sticks.

The Bad

- The voice acting is very robotic, unemotional and at points badly spoke (one of the missions the word 'gauge' is pronouced 'gouge').
- The extra missions are still quite random. Im a player who wants to go through the universe without trading or building - just fighting! So why can't I get some consistancy of jobs once the storyline is gone? I have to hunt, sector by sector for work.
- The 'difficulty' doesn't seem to scale. I was doing a escort mission in the Terran figher (the one you start with) and it said the difficulty was average. I then get mobed by about 7/8 ships who quickly dispose of my escort tanker and vaporise me in a few seconds - not what I would call average.
I could be a good pilot in a bad ship or a bad pilot in a good ship - so how do I know what difficulty 'average' will be if im flying a disco?

The Ugly

- When you first get wingmen it says to assign them a colour / group. Doesn't actually assign them as wingmen so you fly off thinking they are following you but instead they stay with the other guys
- If you include yourself in a wing, and give the wing an order, the autopilot will keep kicking in and taking over while your flying.
- I can't assign quick (ie, keypress) wing commands: (ie, red wing kill these guys, blue wing kill those guys)
- Wingmen never fly in formation - they just buzz around you like flys and occasionally die if they fly into you.
- When you first get the wingmen they haven't had any engine upgrades, so you end up being FASTER than them and leaving them behind.
- Also when you get them, the default IFF is to set everyone to friendly - so when I issue an order to attack a pirate they dont actually attack, just fly around it and get shot at.
- One of the first few missions your told to scan a pirate base. But there is no option to 'scan' and the help / mission doesn't indicate that you need to be within 'x'm to start the scan.
- Auto aim doesn't seem to work with mouse flight. I spent ages flying with the mouse and hardly hitting fast moving xenon M5 ships. Switch to stick with auto aim and no problems at all.
- The mission to deliver to telidaium (spelling ) just seems to pop up and not give any options / suggesions on HOW to do it? I was actually under the impression I would loan a ship to deliver it and waited around for something to happen.

I really want to like this game - but the reason I stopped playing X3 was the lack of consistant work / money for a 'fighter / killer' game player.

Im gonna give it more time but I just feel fustrated and tired of the issues & shortfalls.

[RegisterMe]

Initial thoughts

Two days of play so far, a day and a half of which has been wasted due to picking up a modified tag (multiple games, multiple different circumstances, not a Steam install, something is, in my opinion, dodgy here).

This was frustrating.


Interface

I like the new interface - it is slick and stylish. I love the ship graphics, the explosions are better but not awe inspiring. I'm neutral on the mission icons appearing above stations - they are a little garish but they are useful. If I had a choice I think I would prefer just to see them on the sector map, or perhaps only when a station was targetted.


Combat

I like it the new controls. I really do. But it does make combat an awful lot easier. The other thing I have noticed is that capping is much easier. In four hours last night, right at the start of the game (I ignored the plot as soon as I could take a break from it) I capped three M6s. Now that could be luck, but it doesn't feel like it. In my other three or four starts I've seen far more capped ships as well. The missile spam is a lilttle over the top, but much easier now that I am in fully kitted out Nova (ie with turret). That's kind of my point about capping being too easy. Never before have I been able to get a fully kitted out M3 three hours into the game.

I think I am going to like the wing command options.

To put this in some context, in previous X3:R games my trading rank has always exceed my fighting rank, even in the late game when I get to buying capital ships and the like. Three hours into this game of X3:TC and my combat rank is three or four levels higher than my trading rank.


Missions

Easier to pick up. Much easier. Their accessibility means I actually do a lot more of them than I used to do. For instance, in X3:R, if you were pottering about dropping satellites in systems that's all you'd do, unless you happened across a pirate or Kha'ak cluster. Now you can pick up missions as you go. My problem with them is that they are too easy and the rewards too high. Station defense missions are a gimme. The first mission I did netted me 250,000 credits. This involved killing, hmmm, maybe four M5s, three M4s, a couple of M3s and an M6. This would have been nigh on impossible if they'd been attacking me, but they weren't. They were attacking the station and simply ignored my execution of their fellows….. The hardest thing about it was catching up with the M5s.


Economy / "life"

It's early days (in fact hours) but things do seem a little more lifeless than I would expect. It may be that I was expecting more "life" than in X3:R, and because it isn't apparent I see a shortcoming. It may be that I am not looking at things the right way. It may be that things will pick up when the God engine gets itself together…… I do like the corporations and their HQs. I am curious about one of them which appears hostile to me even though I have never encountered it and can't set friend / foe settings for it. There seems to be less cross border trading going on (at least compared with what I would expect) - I've not had a single visitor to my wheat farm in Home of Light yet. Not even an Argon one. In X3:R games I've relied on this to get my rep up with the Paranid. All in all though I think it is too early to comment with any confidence, so these are just impressions and may well turn out to be wrong.

Basically it feels like it is more difficult to kick start the economy.

I suspect that large complex complex construction is going to be just as awkward as it was in X3:R.


Plotline

I really haven't done enough of the "main plotline" to comment. To those who talk about it being short, well, I wonder if there are other plotlines out there that you might be able to pick up later. The different corporations seem an obvious source…….


Performance

I have a pretty powerful rig (that actually seems to work properly now):-

Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9770 (overclocked to 3.8Ghz)
4gb 1333 MHz DDR3 memory
24" E248WFP screen
Dual 1gb ATI Radeon 3870 X2 Crossfire
Soundblaster X-Fi Extreme

I run the game at max res, everything high, AA etc turned up as far as it can go etc. Generally it runs fine, even in combat - no lag at all. The exception to this seems to be when enemies are spawned for, for instance, station defense missions. Then it slows down and becomes choppy. It does not feel like gpu or cpu lag. I've been in far busier systems, with more "free form" combat going on, and not had any lag at all. It feels like something in the act of spawning these enemies causes a problem.


Conclusions

The seemingly arbitrary problems I had with picking up ***modified*** tags really took the gloss off my initial enjoyment of the game. It is really annoying to lose twelve hours work…… This may be specific to some weirdness in my setup (I doubt it though), but because of this overall I'd have to give it a 6/10. Without the modified problem it would be a 7/10. With a livelier universe this would go to 8/10. Slight balancing of missions and combat would get it to 9/10.

Over time I am confident that Egosoft and the army of (hat's off to you!) wonderful modders will get it to 10.

I just don't want to have to start again .


RM

[TigerPJM]

What I find disappointing is flying for 15 minutes (I've timed it) to the Uranus encounter only to have another ship jumping through the jump gate ram me, thereby destroying my ship and ending the mission. This has happened three times in a row, so I'm either unlucky or the mission is broken.

Transiting someone only to be destroyed at no fault of my own is completely un-fun. And this is after three episodes of the autopilot ramming me into various celestial objects...... It seems that any session of over about half an hour will see you ramming into something, or something into you resulting in your abrupt and instant vapourisation. It is really annoying and invariably ends my session. Why can't the path finding be better in general? Why, when I'm pointing directly at the centre of my intended jump gate does the autopilot find it necessary to make countless ugly and nauseating course corrections?

I have to say, I don't think this is really a new game at all. It's X3 Reunion with some extra content and a cleaned up interface. The core mechanics haven't changed at all.

Why? Why?

[nirwin]

Ok, just 'cause I wanna talk about it.

Bad:
Voice acting
Difficulty rating of missions is a bit unreliable
AI for wingmen is still quite dumb
Some performance issues (not too bad)


Good:
Music
Intro
Explosions
Missiles (and their trails)
Plenty of varied jobs
Easier capping (not had anything better than an M4 bail though, and not a huge number, but much more than X3:R)
Love the new interface and controls
Encyclopedia
Missions panel


I've still barely scratched the surface but am just loving the game, playing it a bit more fairly, so if I sustain damage I don't just reload the last save, I live with the consequences. Sadly I was taking on some Xenon and whilst trying to kill an N, I got pummeled by an L, and whilst my shields were low, one of my M5 escorts came arcing round and plowed right into the front of my ship, exploding on impact and causing collosal damage to my ship. I managed to clean up the rest of the Xenon, and limped to a shipyard, didn't have enough for full repairs, and have been slowly fixing the hull for a while now.

The sectors (especially the Terrans) feel gigantic, much more open than X3:R.
Got caught out for a while by the lack of "docking computer" and "open cargobay" controls, but figured it out in the end.

One of the best aspects of the game (for me) is the feeling that the Universe is a very dangerous place to be, I've been in so many scraps in the first 12 hours of the game that X3:R looks like it had stabilisers on. Though maybe that's just because it's been a while since I've had to survive in an M4?

Trading, I can't comment too much on at the moment, I have a small cargobay, and most factories seem to be short on product, so I tend to find the only thing with much of a markup and demand is energy cells, but at 6-8cr profit per item and a cargobay that can only store about 67 e-cells, I ain't finding it too lucrative.
Thing is it's also hard to kickstart the other stations, when you can only move a tiny quantity of e-cells at a time.

There is certainly a little room for improvement, but generally this game seems to deliver quite well.

[withar]

It feels like the game has been streamlined mainly for individuals with slightly deficient depth, or who don't have the concept of playing a role in a game.

I guess it's down to what you expect from the game. I’ve never really seen X3 as a sort of RPG and space sim mix. I’ve all ways seen it as a follow on of the Elite games:** a Space sim, good combat sim and economic simulator. Though the BBs defiantly added a richness to the game they were only a tiny part of it. i don't know, i guess i'm one of these "...individuals with slightly deficient depth..." not in a bad way mind you



**Despite X3 lack of true Newtonian physics or planet landing, nether of which I really care about so pleases don't overload the post with comments about the obvious differences just because I’ve linked the two together

[Ecthelion]

I managed to clean up the rest of the Xenon, and limped to a shipyard, didn't have enough for full repairs, and have been slowly fixing the hull for a while now.

You do know you can jump out of your ship and use the space suit's repair laser to fix your hull, right?

Got caught out for a while by the lack of "docking computer" and "open cargobay" controls, but figured it out in the end.

I didn't realize the docking computer was gone, but I don't see that as a problem. In X3:R, it was a cheap way to escape during combat. Now it actually involves some skill to zoom in to the docking port if you're trying to dock during combat.

There is certainly a little room for improvement, but generally this game seems to deliver quite well.

That's my impression as well.

I agree with the rest of your assessment, although I don't think the voice acting is any worse than X3:R (actually I think it's a bit better). I like the new "death screams", like the Boron "waters failing!" and the Argon "not like this!"

One thing I wouldn't mind seeing is more keybinding customization. It seems like some of the new features can't be set to a hotkey (My Missions, for example).

[Sir.Diealot_swe]

I managed to clean up the rest of the Xenon, and limped to a shipyard, didn't have enough for full repairs, and have been slowly fixing the hull for a while now.

You do know you can jump out of your ship and use the space suit's repair laser to fix your hull, right?

Got caught out for a while by the lack of "docking computer" and "open cargobay" controls, but figured it out in the end.

I didn't realize the docking computer was gone, but I don't see that as a problem. In X3:R, it was a cheap way to escape during combat. Now it actually involves some skill to zoom in to the docking port if you're trying to dock during combat.

There is certainly a little room for improvement, but generally this game seems to deliver quite well.

That's my impression as well.

I agree with the rest of your assessment, although I don't think the voice acting is any worse than X3:R (actually I think it's a bit better). I like the new "death screams", like the Boron "waters failing!" and the Argon "not like this!"

One thing I wouldn't mind seeing is more keybinding customization. It seems like some of the new features can't be set to a hotkey (My Missions, for example).

The docking computer is not gone, use SHIFT and D to dock if you have a docking computer installed

[nirwin]

You do know you can jump out of your ship and use the space suit's repair laser to fix your hull, right?

I have seen a post about this on the forum, but that was after my last playing session (saturday night )
I was wondering if I needed to buy the repair laser, but I guess not, sounds like it takes a long time, but for free hull repair I think I can live with it.

I didn't realize the docking computer was gone, but I don't see that as a problem. In X3:R, it was a cheap way to escape during combat. Now it actually involves some skill to zoom in to the docking port if you're trying to dock during combat.

As someone said, it's not gone, but to activate it, you just press Shift-D (auto-dock) and if you are in range, it will insta-dock.
Never used it as a way to escape combat (ok once), usually just for when I can't be bothered to dock properly.

I agree with the rest of your assessment, although I don't think the voice acting is any worse than X3:R (actually I think it's a bit better). I like the new "death screams", like the Boron "waters failing!" and the Argon "not like this!"

One thing I wouldn't mind seeing is more keybinding customization. It seems like some of the new features can't be set to a hotkey (My Missions, for example).

Maybe not all the voice acting, but on the Terran start, the dude who takes you under his wing so to speak, talks in a more disjointed manner than betty. And since this is the main person people who play the terran plot will be talking too, it seems odd that his voice is so half baked.

I don't mind the availability of hotkeys so much, I find most things are quick to access.

Oh and has anyone else noticed, there is a match target's speed button? Haven't tried it yet, but it was a feature X3:R lacked that I thought would have been useful.

[Ecthelion]

The docking computer is not gone, use SHIFT and D to dock if you have a docking computer installed

Oh. I saw that nirwin said "lack of docking computer" so I assumed it was missing. From what you're saying, it sounds the same as X3:R, so I'm not sure why he said that.

[nirwin]

The docking computer is not gone, use SHIFT and D to dock if you have a docking computer installed

Oh. I saw that nirwin said "lack of docking computer" so I assumed it was missing. From what you're saying, it sounds the same as X3:R, so I'm not sure why he said that.

Lol, I think you misunderstood my post a bit...

Got caught out for a while by the lack of "docking computer" and "open cargobay" controls

(formatting added to emphasize)

The docking computer in X3:R did not have a key assigned to it by default, you had to assign one. Shift-D was a command to tell the auto-pilot to dock at the station, it was not used to activate the docking computer (as far as I know). So the lack of an assignable key for "docking computer" and the fact that Shift-D initiates it, both make it different from X3:R.

[Ecthelion]

As someone said, it's not gone, but to activate it, you just press Shift-D (auto-dock) and if you are in range, it will insta-dock.
Never used it as a way to escape combat (ok once), usually just for when I can't be bothered to dock properly.

Shift-D engages the autopilot dock if you don't have a docking computer. I'm not sure what the docking computer is used for except to save time having to wait for your ship to line up and slowly dock, or to escape combat. If AI ships have it equipped, do they use it? That could save your freighters from crashing if you're in-sector. Normally I don't run into that, but in X3:TC, one of my wingmen crashed into a station when I docked, and I've also seen a freighter fly into a gate.

Maybe not all the voice acting, but on the Terran start, the dude who takes you under his wing so to speak, talks in a more disjointed manner than betty. And since this is the main person people who play the terran plot will be talking too, it seems odd that his voice is so half baked.

To be honest, I didn't find his voice any worse than the main actors in the X3:R campaign, except maybe Julian. English did not seem to be the first language of most of the rest of the cast, and even Julian had some idiosyncrasies.

Oh and has anyone else noticed, there is a match target's speed button? Haven't tried it yet, but it was a feature X3:R lacked that I thought would have been useful.

It's funny, but I had forgotten X3:R didn't have it. The last space sim I played before TC was Freespace 2 (using the wonderful upgraded engine the FS Open team made), and matching speed is pretty much required in it. I'll have to take the time to learn to use it in TC, because it could be pretty handy there too.

Lol, I think you misunderstood my post a bit...
(formatting added to emphasize)

You're right. Sorry about that.

The docking computer in X3:R did not have a key assigned to it by default, you had to assign one. Shift-D was a command to tell the auto-pilot to dock at the station, it was not used to activate the docking computer (as far as I know). So the lack of an assignable key for "docking computer" and the fact that Shift-D initiates it, both make it different from X3:R.

In X3:R, Shift-D had multiple uses. If you had a docking computer, Shift-D used it. If you didn't have one, Shift-D activated the docking autopilot. I don't have a docking computer in TC, and Shift-D still works to autopilot-dock. If it has been confirmed that Shift-D engages the docking computer (if equipped), then it works exactly the same as in X3:R.

I do seem to remember there being a separate docking computer hotkey in X3:R, and that may not have been bound. But I distinctly remember that I could use the docking computer in X3:R without assigning a hotkey myself, and it was done by using Shift-D.


EDIT: I just checked the X3:R Manual (the one updated for 1.4 that's available on the Egosoft website), and on Page 12 it lists Shift-D as the docking computer. Maybe it got added in a patch, but this shows that it was there at least as of 1.4.

One thing I remember from X3:R is that it seemed like there were redundant keybinding entries. It's possible that the docking computer was in there twice or that the Shift-D bind was listed under something else (or hardcoded into the game). X3:TC apparently removed those redundancies, so that's why there's no separate docking computer keybind. That's my theory anyway.

[Cycrow]

In X3:R, Shift-D had multiple uses. If you had a docking computer, Shift-D used it. If you didn't have one, Shift-D activated the docking autopilot. I don't have a docking computer in TC, and Shift-D still works to autopilot-dock. If it has been confirmed that Shift-D engages the docking computer (if equipped), then it works exactly the same as in X3:R.

actually it doesn't work the same, the way you describe is how it works in TC, but its not how it worked in X3R.

in X3R Shift-D would always engage the autopilot to dock weather you have the docking computer or not. You had to use a seperate hotkey to "teleport" into the docking bay.

in TC, if you are in range and have the docking computer, it will teleport you, otherwise it will jsut engage the autopilot

[Ecthelion]

actually it doesn't work the same, the way you describe is how it works in TC, but its not how it worked in X3R.

in X3R Shift-D would always engage the autopilot to dock weather you have the docking computer or not. You had to use a seperate hotkey to "teleport" into the docking bay.

in TC, if you are in range and have the docking computer, it will teleport you, otherwise it will jsut engage the autopilot

That's odd. I remember being able to "teleport" without binding it. Maybe I'm going nuts. It's possible that I rebound Shift-D to the docking computer so early in playing X3:R that I forgot I did it. Still, I went through at least one reinstall on a new computer, and I hadn't thought I had kept any of my profile settings or saves.

So I guess the reference to the docking computer as Shift-D in the X3:R manual was a mistake then. That, combined with my (apparently faulty) memories of X3:R made me certain that it worked that way in X3:R also.

[K.Mak]

I kind of wished the UI bar could be put across the bottom. Also, I kind of hate how they did a windows start bar approach to loading, because I tend to load when I'm about to die to avoid main menu loading and I keep slipping the cursor off the bar so the computer keeps going, "SAVING, SAVING, SAVING, SAVING IS ONLY POSSIBLE, SAVING" and that annoys me.

[Warenwolf]

For those that have tested the X3:TC and have played X3/X2:


I have postponed ordering the newest iteration of the x games until the patch 1.4 or something , but I was starting to wonder whether to buy it at all.
I played x2 togather with a friend and when I bought X3 I discovered that I had bought "X2 renamed" - I had better graphic effects, more sectors and more ships (that were not balanced - while M7 was overpowered, M6 was useless) and so on but at the end - it was still the same game.
So my question is: Is X3:RC just more flashy version of X3?

[Jimby]

My only major gripe about the game is that the option nebula on/off would have been nice. I hate the nebula in the X3 series. X2 did it much better. I would use the no nebula mod, but the mod package button seems to be disabled at the beginning of the game.

[Cycrow]

My only major gripe about the game is that the option nebula on/off would have been nice. I hate the nebula in the X3 series. X2 did it much better. I would use the no nebula mod, but the mod package button seems to be disabled at the beginning of the game.

thats always been the case, the button is always disabled if you have no mods installed. It was the same in X3:R

[Jimby]

That is true, but to enable the button a mod file just has to reside inside the x3 folder does it not? I have placed the 2 files necessary for it to work in the X3 TC folder, but the button remains greyed out.
Does your scrip/mod installer work with X3 TC? I created an spk for it for X3R.