[WIP] X4 Rebirth (working title) - concept stage

[Karmaticdamage]

Would it be possible to allow jumping between systems by the gates like in X3? Like jumping from albion straight to OL via the jumpgates. Right now capital ships jump to the gate, then fly through, then jump one sector at a time to the next jump gate then fly through.

[Cdaragorn]

This is exactly what I've been hoping for!

I'd really love to help you get this done, if you're interested in getting others involved. That's a lot of sectors that need to be created, and I would love to see the full map restored.

[Observe]

Would it be possible to allow jumping between systems by the gates like in X3?

Yes, that is the plan, and is one of the reasons I'm creating a cluster for each X3 sector. That way, each X3/Rebirth sector will connect to other sectors via jumpgates in the same manner as with X3. No more of this crawling from one sector to another with jumpdrive ships as we now have now.

I'd really love to help you get this done, if you're interested in getting others involved. That's a lot of sectors that need to be created, and I would love to see the full map restored.

Sounds like we are on the same page! Providing my initial testing indicates we have a green light, you can expect I'll be ringing your door bell sometime soon.

[ICO_hr]

Now if we could kill off "Danger... Entering Atmosphere" and be able to enter the atmosphere of the planets, that would also be a great achievement and what opportunity to have stations hovering a few kms above the planet surface

Unfortunately I don't see that happening without procedural terrain generation - which Rebirth engine is not capable of. I suppose they could add a module for procedural generation at some point, but I don't see any indication of Egosoft going in that direction any time soon.

Well, this is possible and it's quite simple actualy.The only thing we need from ES is exporter from 3d sofware(Max, Maya...) to XR engine, or if somebody from the community build one.

The tricky part is to hide the transition from space to low orbit or directly to the ground if you want to see trees and details like that.Basicaly should be done simiral to Radiant Heaven transition from space to the planet... space>clouds>clouds>more clouds>ground level.We can even build some base on the ground with platform that is 1-2km high or directly on the ground.

For the terrain creation sofware like World Machine or Vue will do the work.I personaly prefer World Machine.World Machine generates the terrain, base textures and geometry if you want.All of this can be exported to Zbrush or any 3d software, from there building in game mesh is quite easy, lods if is needed, textures.When we are ready with the big details(mountains, trees, whatever) we need to build small area for the first person part, some part of the base that is visibble, grass, trees, some rocks...basicaly everything that is needed for the close up.

Expost all that>import in the XR>WIN!

[Observe]

My preference would also be World Machine. I agree with the challenges and also with the possibilities you describe.

[DarthVain]

Now if we could kill off "Danger... Entering Atmosphere" and be able to enter the atmosphere of the planets, that would also be a great achievement and what opportunity to have stations hovering a few kms above the planet surface

Unfortunately I don't see that happening without procedural terrain generation - which Rebirth engine is not capable of. I suppose they could add a module for procedural generation at some point, but I don't see any indication of Egosoft going in that direction any time soon.

Kind of figured that perhaps a means of setting the destruction height lower might be achievable. That will give us a sense of skimming the surface without being blown up or if all else fails, set the altitude daylight higher. I believe some planets have that daylight effect as if you were in the atmosphere of the planet.

Will do some more exploring with my super skunk (my sub space super booster). What will be great also if the planets could be identified on the nav maps.

[Observe]

What will be great also if the planets could be identified on the nav maps.

I suppose that would make the most sense if we had more realistic ability to fly to and around planets - which we'd want to do if we ever get a procedural terrain engine. In any case, I expect there is close to 100% agreement that the maps and the UI are in serious need of improvement, and likely this is an area that numerous modders are waiting to jump on at the first possible opportunity.

[ICO_hr]

My preference would also be World Machine. I agree with the challenges and also with the possibilities you describe.

Mate i'm dead serious.This can be done and is not that much work.I'm primarily environment artist and alot of the things that are needed are trivial for me...at least from the art stand point.Btw i was thinking about something similar from the first time i saw Radiant Heaven in-game.

[Observe]

My preference would also be World Machine. I agree with the challenges and also with the possibilities you describe.

Mate i'm dead serious.This can be done and is not that much work.I'm primarily environment artist and alot of the things that are needed are trivial for me...at least from the art stand point.Btw i was thinking about something similar from the first time i saw Radiant Heaven in-game.

Well then. Let's do it! [ external image ]

The nice thing is, we have plenty of time, because this game is fresh out of the oven. I would love to see procedural terrain (and even procedural planets) if we can pull it off, and I'd love to see it in this mod if at all possible; but whether this mod or not, the main thing is that it is accomplished.

[ICO_hr]

I would love to see procedural terrain (and even procedural planets) if we can pull it off, and I'd love to see it in this mod if at all possible; but whether this mod or not, the main thing is that it is accomplished.

I doubt we'll see procedural terrain or planets in XR, maybe in X4 but i doubt that too unless there is something build around them like planet factories or some sort of gameplay that builds ontop of the other things.

[KRM398]

procedural planets and terrain and you need some thing to do there? try mining, setting up station for trading,exploring, farming, lumber mills,dams for electricity, and even fishing...I'd stop flying around once in a while to set by my little log cabin and fish, with my fighter or shuttle sitting on the pad behind the house...lol.

Procedurally generated stuff opens a whole new world of things to do.That why we have trigabytes of HD now for just such an occasion.

[Observe]

Well, who knows where this will all eventually lead. In the meantime, we have established immediate priorities, so we'll see how things go with them.

This week will be a bit slow because of other things, but I'll keep plugging away at developing the test mod, so I can provide something for people to mess around with and get a feel for whether we are taking the right approach. All evidence so far, indicates we are on the right track.

[mrowka]

procedural planets and terrain and you need some thing to do there? try mining, setting up station for trading,exploring, farming, lumber mills,dams for electricity, and even fishing...I'd stop flying around once in a while to set by my little log cabin and fish, with my fighter or shuttle sitting on the pad behind the house...lol.

Procedurally generated stuff opens a whole new world of things to do.That why we have trigabytes of HD now for just such an occasion.

Well there is a big asteroid with a mine build in, you can land on any part of it and it feels like a planet, adding fog ( density dependable on range) effect to it would make a greate atmosphere effect.
This things are alredy in game, question is mostly how much preformance will such a planet eat

[Vayde]

If all of these ideas merge, mix and blend well, and the finished product is indeed all we hoped for. I foresee a warning message on the intro page.

WARNING! This Game requires the X:R engine to play.

Best of luck with this guys.


Vayde

[KRM398]

Had an odd thought that just came to me, if we have the Skunk in the new game wither its the only ship or not....what IS it? Its not a fighter because we're allowed a crew of 6 I believe. Its not a corvette because even a light corvette has 1 turret, and it has 10k storage but cant haul, well, anything. So..what is the Skunk? I at first thought ti was a heavy fighter, being it can and does land on ships like the Rehanas, but then it has a crew of 6...hmmm... but then this is Ego we're talking about right guys? So...maybe an M3+...nope they have more turrets too. So, a light freighter perhaps? But it cant haul anything really, missiles and drones but that about it. The description mentioned it was a military vessel proto...so that made little sense.

I'd almost accept it as a military transport ship, a small bulk carrier.But then it has a bigger crew and if you look at it clearly....that marine officer over there has 44-50 guys in his pocket I think....oh Egie, what have you done this time??So finally I gave up trying to figure it out because it made no sense at all.

[imperium3]

Ahaha, I wondered how long it would be before someone started a project like this.

Just a thought WRT making one cluster per X3 sector: Would there be any situations where you'd be open to putting several sectors inside a cluster? The standout example would be the Solar System, as it would essentially then act the same as X3 but with the transorbital accelerators replaced by superhighways.

I'm not sure if there are any other X3 sectors that lorewise are in the same system - perhaps a couple of the ones around Argon Prime? The Aldrin system might also be a fun one to deal with...

[Observe]

Just a thought WRT making one cluster per X3 sector: Would there be any situations where you'd be open to putting several sectors inside a cluster? The standout example would be the Solar System, as it would essentially then act the same as X3 but with the transorbital accelerators replaced by superhighways.

Hi imperium3,

Yes, I agree with you completely! Having ability for multiple sectors certainly expands the potential for busy X3 clusters with sectors connecting via superhighways in the normal fashion. Probably most of the 200+ X3 clusters will have only one sector - at least in the beginning for expediency, but we can grow from there.

[DarthVain]

@ Observe,

Just something completely off the topic, your link to worldwidemods.com returns a 'HTTP Error 404.0 - Not Found' code error.

Just thought I'd mention that.

[Staberind]

{Words about the lack of a gravity well making up and down passé}

This sounds very good, but I fear that it would cause more problems to the player than giving benefits.
Like "OMG, we can walk arround on stations now !"
1h later "God, why do I have to walk arround on that damn stations?"
While I like to have spherical sectors it may bring heavy navigation issues. The human is comfortable with navigating on planes, so no real up/down may cause irritation and the player get's lost in the sector. Also the 2D map wouldn't help much, because you can't see at which "hight" any entity is.

Maybe it would be easier to create multiple planes within a sector, but than you still have up/down. Sadly, there is no real middle way executing this, because immersion is created by no up/down while for a human to easily navigate up/down is needed.

Note: I don't want to talk bad about your idea, that are only my personal toughts about that matter. I try to be as much objective as I can.

I really appreciate another point of view on the subject, I'm glad you shared you thoughts, my observations have been: (from playing a series of games called descent): Indeed it takes a little while to get rid of the need for an artificial horizontal plane and its anticipated layout thereof, it can become equally intuitive to think in terms of in and out from a central point or points, and satisfying when that does happen, plus, with most of the intractable surfaces facing you when you are quite central, we get used to that quickly.
But, and this is the important bit, I definitely agree that its a really big departure from what we have come to expect from the X series, (unless you built your sectors like that in X3, with the stations entry and exit points radiating around the path from one gate to another, ocd much? ) So, while I thought it might be an interesting suggestion, I was having similar thoughts regarding novelty verses problems and benefits. I think the real acid test would be for me to not talk and use Observes tutorial to create a clone of a typical sector in XR, but using a non planar approach, if possible.

St4n, thanks for the very constructive points you raised, as its also given me another idea; while humans would like stuff to be quite planar, other races perspectives will be wholly different, specifically the Boron & Xenon.

P.S. walking in stations does indeed suck, thank goodness for NESA.

Had an odd thought that just came to me, if we have the Skunk in the new game wither its the only ship or not....what IS it? Its not a fighter because we're allowed a crew of 6 I believe. Its not a corvette because even a light corvette has 1 turret, and it has 10k storage but cant haul, well, anything. So..what is the Skunk? I at first thought ti was a heavy fighter, being it can and does land on ships like the Rehanas, but then it has a crew of 6...hmmm... but then this is Ego we're talking about right guys? So...maybe an M3+...nope they have more turrets too. So, a light freighter perhaps? But it cant haul anything really, missiles and drones but that about it. The description mentioned it was a military vessel proto...so that made little sense.

I'd almost accept it as a military transport ship, a small bulk carrier.But then it has a bigger crew and if you look at it clearly....that marine officer over there has 44-50 guys in his pocket I think....oh Egie, what have you done this time??So finally I gave up trying to figure it out because it made no sense at all.

Dooood, this had to be said, thanks. if it were not for the magical 50 or so marines, I would call it either an atmospheric dropship, a "millenium falcon" type deal, or a tactilol M3+ the lol being "Turrets? don't be silly, thats unsporting"

Then I realised: its a prototype hunting ship for upper class twits to hunt Xenon. ("the most dangerous prey and all that, what what?!") Think range rover with cream leather interiour and rediculous amounts of guns,hence the dual cockpit, (in case percy gets way too wasted on spaceweed, perkins, his space manservant can take over, launch a cloud of astrobee's and poors to distract the M. hit boost and exit stage left.
while the staff in the back (station manager, secretary, chef and barkeep) run the business affairs.

[Lc4Hunter]

Just a short information:
We (the modding community) have the allowness of Egosoft to use SOME of the ships from the X3-series.

This is an answer from Bernd to my question:

"Ja, es ist generell erlaubt Schiffs- und Stationsmodelle aus X3TC nach X Rebirth zu portieren und diese in einer Mod zum Download anzubieten, solange dies in Maßen geschieht. Ziel kann es nicht sein, dass jemand sehr viele oder sogar alle Modelle aus X3TC in einer Mod anbietet, und damit demjenigen bereitstellt, der X3TC nicht besitzt. Immerhin handelt es sich bei X3TC um ein eigenständiges Spiel."

English~:
"Yes, it is generally allowed to port ship- and stationmodels from X3TC to X-Rebirth and put them in a mod for download, as long as this is done in moderation. The target can not be that someone offers very many, if not all, models of X3TC in a mod, and therefore that of providing that does not have X3: TC. After all, X3:TC is a standalone game."

(Just translated it via Google, had not much time now, sorry )

My idea (independend from this mod) was to add some "classic" ships like the Argon Nova, Boronships and so on.