Collecting ideas and content for superbox

[Gavrushka]

I definitely think this is geared towards modders and script users, but that doesn't really matter, since I believe something was said about having all the bonus or mod stuff separate from the game. This is also why good tutorials would be needed.. for people who DON'T want to break their game... and you could also just install everything you want before you start a new game, so you don't have to restart unexpectedly. I doubt anyone would have a problem with that since form what I've seen, most members of the forum have already experienced the games Vanilla; if you lie it Vanilla, there ya go. If not, there ya go.

I assumed the ultimate 'X box' was aimed towards the overall community - and more specifically to put a user friendly front end on to scripts and mods - Much like the bonus pack of signed scripts for reunion, but on a far larger scale- IF this product was aimed towards those that were non-Vanilla it would be commercial suicide as I think it is only 26-27% that use unsigned scripts (source uploaded statistics) - My argument was, especially in the interface design, this thread needs substantially more input from outside the S&M forum - I stumbled on it by chance.

I would NOT like this, personally... Sure, the stack of DVD's could become rather daunting, but if they charged extra for these down loadable link deals, AFTER the actual cost of the game box itself... that would suck... and be like the real X Box, and equally... poopy

Oh no - not additional chargeable content - forgive me for not being clear - I meant FREE - The economic sense point was that they wouldn't have to keep updating the production run

[KHCreason]

26-27% that use unsigned scripts

Another point of this box is to collect mods and such, correct? And if certain mods were selected and tweaked and added into this box, they'd be signed, right? I don't really know much about that...

they wouldn't have to keep updating the production run

Ah, in that case, I agree. You do mean not having to re-release the box whenever cool stuff comes out, or something to that effect, correct?

[Gavrushka]

There are historical and 'affectionate' reasons to include the earlier games in the pack - The 'genuine' content for me would be the presently unsigned scripts and mods created by the community - Misssile Defence Mosquitos, Afterburners, Commodity Logistics Software and UTs were all community creations - But I read of Dozens of others that would enhance the game like the Ship rebalancing Mod. THIS is for me is what this release would be about loads of new bolt ons to enhance and develop the game further down the road I would personally take it- This is where I feel the wider communities imagine needs to be grasped and shaped to help Egosoft create what we want, and not what a subset of 'we' want.

And yes this is such an undertaking that when the production run starts there will be many a screaming voice wanting additional content, or alterations - far, far beyond the usual idea of a 'patch' - This is a massive undertaking and the background logistical support needs to be on a similar scale.

I just want to know... This ultimate X Box.... Is it ready yet?....



...How about now?

[Gazz]

I think it is only 26-27% that use unsigned scripts (source uploaded statistics)

Going by polls it's about 50/50.
Uploaded statistics only show the vanilla games because with a modded game, whats the point?
I could upload a game with 20000 stations. Costs me 5 min tops in scripting. =)

[KHCreason]

...presently unsigned scripts and mods created by the community - Misssile Defence Mosquitos, Afterburners, Commodity Logistics Software and UTs were all community creations - But I read of Dozens of others that would enhance the game like the Ship rebalancing Mod. THIS is for me is what this release would be about loads of new bolt ons to enhance and develop the game...

I'm confused, Gav... You just said you wanted all the good mods to be included. I've been saying the same thing... I think we've had a miscommunication.[/quote]

[xXxSamxXx]

sounds verry nice

But to pay 40 Dollars (?^^) for alot of free stuff is a bit too much I think.

Doesn't matter...

It would be cool if I could help you to write the program which includes scripts by pressing some buttons
I already created some programms but there I didn't know what to do because there was no idea
With this project I would have a great idea

Code: Select all

While 1
 If $get_jop = 1 Then
  ExitLoop
 Else
  $me = sad ;:(
 EndIf
WEnd
While 1
 $me = $happy ;:D
WEnd

PS: AutoIt Rools

By the way:
I don't know if anyone else wrote it till now... But it would be cool if there would be some Complex testing programms inside the packet
This weekend I made my own one.
Look at the GERMAN trade!

[Gavrushka]

@Gazz - Understood - I imagined it would not be a reliable source- The main reason for quoting where it came from..

@KHCreason - I think we are more or less in agreement- The debate was more of perspective than from disagreement - I think the only concern I'm expressing is whether there is enough input from the Vanilla Community - be that 10% or 50% of the overall.

[apricotslice]

I dont see scripts being included as a problem. The bigger ones are usually AL based which means you can switch them off if you dont want to use them. The smaller ones are just menu items you wont use. No big deal. No need to remove anything you dont want.

The only ones that wouldnt be included are those that make game changes without a menu item or an AL switch.

I'm currently planning the Merge Mod v2, and that seems like a good place for putting everything people want together into one big easy to install mod. I've suggested this by email. As far as scripts go, all together in one mod is a good way of ensuring that they are fully compatible.

It will add a lot of content to the game, but the player can choose to ignore what they dont want to use, the same as we ignore vanilla stuff we dont want to use.

The only issue will be "balance", as I'm not planning on having any. I see it as up to the player to make their own choices about that.

Anyway, the idea is available for the superbox, and I'm available to do the main work.

[Osiris_sam]

there are ways of creating balance, given the correct situation.
taking a script which is not game mechanic altering, but has very powerful function can be balanced by cost (one time or over time),

scripts which take some aspect of the game and automate it in some way(take ware price monitoring, as this is something ive been paying attention to recently), this can be balanced (in a manner of speaking) by making it inefficient, more beneficial for the player to do it himself. (a hefty price tag also xD)

So in that respect. adding scripts should not be a problem, as longs the scripts function can be adjusted for

As for which scripts to add, i said this before, everyone has different 'holes' in the game, and theres a lot of scripts which fill these holes. the content should aim to fill as many 'holes' as possible. in other words, anything that sounds good

Modifications are a different story and are, unfortunatly, outside of my expertise.

[Gavrushka]

@Apricotslice - Well that makes it al far more understandable - Essentially there is an installer available, developed by you, which will put a great deal of content together which like tins of beans on a shelf we can choose to consume or leave - BUT they are available in the game without altering the game in any way unless we choose to us them? - Well that's fantastic! Then if I'm keeping up, there are a second series of Scripts? - These ones have some kind of Toggle with them that we can set in game or not - Therefore once again full control is left with the end user?

But there are also game mechanics altering scripts - Like the ship rebalancing ones? Or Invasion scripts and the like yes? These have a profound effect on the game and are locked in once installed. - I guess these are few in number, and to a degree mutually exclusive.

Well that makes everything seem very straightforward - We get a superbox which uses Merge Mod V2, there are then a series of game altering Mods that can be installed from a separate Proprietory Menu - They could well be themed in name, like 'Total War' and the like (much like the Civilisation additonal CDs that were released to alter the thrust of the game - and all the additional content such as Screensavers, interviews, videos and literature separate.

Am I over simplifying this? (from an end users perspective- I appreciate there will be a huge amount of work to make it so)

[apricotslice]

basically how I see it, although egosoft would decide the overall format.

But certainly all the things which you either select a start to get, buy a product to activate, have a command or hotkey to activate, or are listed on the AL menu to activate, can all be put together into a single mod.

After that, the disc could contain whatever else was deemed of interest, divided up into categories. But each of these would have to be installed separately, and that might be beyond a lot of people.

It must be added that all of this will make a game 'modified', as none of it will be signed. And the Script editor will need to be turned on manually after starting.

[Gavrushka]

I was under the impression that if it is an Egosoft release product it would be signed? Much as the Reunion pack was. - I think I'm the only Vanilla poster here, and that is a source of some frustration for me.

Are you saying that the Installer would make the game throw up a modified flag, or that Egosoft are not planning to support the scripts that are included in a product that we, the public, will buy? Or am I missing something?

I'm trying to think of the legal disclaimers that would have to accompany a product that could sell into the millions that was actually NOT supported by the company releasing it. I am sure someone will put me right on this.

[apricotslice]

Interesting can of worms

I dont know. But I cannot see Egosoft signing third party scripts that do not meet its requirements for balance. (Most mods that exist now will fail the balance test, as will a majority of often used scripts, thats why only a small number will ever make the bonus pack.)

Dont be mistaken, this is NOT the bonus pack we are talking about, thats something totally different.

The task to weed out what isnt balanced, and then test it all to work together is something I dont think they wish to do. Its a major job. Even with the modding community doing most of the work, the task of double checking will be too large for them to want to do.

I'm not sure the intention was ever to sign mods. Rather just provide the commonly used mods and scripts with the special package as a quick way of finding them and an easy way for people with no modding/scripting use expereince to add them to the game.

I think we'll find a heavy duty disclaimer statement will occompany the disc.

[Osiris_sam]

all that is needed is a link to the script/mod post on the installer, or readme or whatever. and then a big section at the bottom of the disclamer saying something along the lines of 'external scripts are not supported by EGOSOFT, and will modify your game. Support may be available from the original author, blah blah blah'

im sure someone more fluent in legal jargon will write that bit. I guess the bonus pack will be included, (egosoft might as well sign Lucikes script collection 2bh), that includes some good scripts that add positive functionality to the game for vanilla users. but i cant see any other getting specially signed for it (maybe if they are really good :\, who knows)

[apricotslice]

Thats an idea. They should include a html list of everything included, with all the links to the threads. That way, people can find the threads and any later versions easily.

[Gavrushka]

This is moving into difficult territory - I've rewritten my response a dozen times and and still can't find the words.

This is a commercial product totally separate from the idea of merely patching and upgrading a previous version. This is TC the Communities' Take. By definition there has to be some rebalancing of the game by the sheer volume of content if nothing else - Community Support is excellent here, but voluntary - IF the original script/ mod creator is being asked to support their product it is not enough to do it from goodwill alone- because Egosoft will NEED to have surities to Indemnify themselves from such basics as 'fit for purpose' - A simple comment from someone from Egosoft could put this one to bed I am sure.

I'd hate to see content being sorely restricted because of legal issues.

[apricotslice]

Legal issues will be a big factor anyway, no way around that.

I guess thats why they are after ideas for now. Gather the ideas, submit to the legal department, work on the ones that are legally acceptable.

All we can do for now is suggest things, and see what is adopted later on.

[Cycrow]

this pack will contain both signed and unsigned content.

the signed content will be installed at the beginning and enabled by default. Users can also disable any of the signed content they dont want

the installer will also contain a large collection of unsigned content that users can install if they wish. Unsigned content will make the game modified but there will be warnings in the installer about this.

the idea is that all users will be able to see at a glance what they are installing, and what effect it will have on the game. And make it easy for them to install all the content they choose too.

this means there will be no need to activte the script editor, or even go into it to use them. Instead you have to active unsigned content in the installer.

the authors of the scripts/mods will not have to give support, they jsut need to give permission to include this work in the pack.

the only scripts that will not be added into the pack are ones without a proper interface to use them. IE, ones that u have to run manually from the script editor

[Gavrushka]

That's a pretty concise explanation, and it works for me. It's sensible and transparant.

[Forked]

Whatever is in it.. I'm buying it.

My first game was X3: R.. it would be fun to try the earlier games as well