[MOD] Ship Rebalance Mod ver 0.59 [30/08/2009] + 2 COCKPIT PACKS + Alkeena's BSD!!!!

[KaZTek]

no, just no.

M1's have to remain flagships. They're not meant to get into the fight up close. They're the carriers of the X universe.

Carriers of WWII and even today arent capable of dealing damage equal to a battleship on its own, but are capable to do so with their fighters.

The ship itself should be able to defend itself, yes, but not from direct ship attack, but from fighters, who would conceivably get through a defense screen of a carrier fleet and deal damage to the flagship of said fleet (carrier) and do its damage.

CODEA revamps the M1's of X3 from worthless on their own to poweful instruments of military will, but still rely upon support craft and its own fighters to do so. The idea of fleets would obviously work as well for other racial militaries.

[sorrow_13th]

about the M1 i think KaZTek is right. A carrier does not kill its target by itself but by its fighters, and should only have anti fighter weapons. To make use of carrier in X3 we need the CODEA though
about the nova prototype cockpit problem, i try with PSCO1 cockpits mod and it work well. "well" here means the head of the ship is displayed correctly just like normal nova and the cockpit from the mod is also correctly, but if i remove the cockpit mod then the vanila cockpit is screwed up again.
It's not very important though, so just look into this if you have time, otherwise it's not nesesary

[AlphaSpecies]

One thing about the "new" Xenon. Compatibility with Exp. EMPC means compatibility with Exp. MAML too, which i think is a bit too much firepower on a M or even N....

On the M1 problem. Maybe something in between, raise laser energy generator, up the guncount and add compatibilty for heavy Anti-Fighter weapons on each turret or perhaps it is possible to add missile barrage like a m7m, just not the special missiles so the m7m keep their role?

[someone else]

To answer to you Kaztek and others that argue on the "carriers" I quote what I posted here

M1s are NOT meant to be the same as a real Carrier, In Vanilla they have big guns and are smaller and faster than the "destroyers" M2, while a Real Carrier is the slowest ship in a fleet, the biggest, and the most dangerous (due to air strikes) while its weapons are close to nonexistant (relies mostly on escorts and fighters).
So making a comparison and forcing the M1 to become Real Carriers is a FAILURE, it just becomes a cripple because it wasn't a Carrier in the first place.

imho the M1 were intended as "multirole capitals" able to perform as a light destroyer and as a light carrier. From the Vanilla stats I see that...

for the OWP: if you make a OWP instead of just placing a M2 or a couple M7 you do it because the OWP is at least capable as a M2 while being cheaper... if not it is just stupid to place one. If you think that the OWP is big as a M2 (even bigger) but without the engines, you think that there is a lot more space for big guns and big shields. It cannot escape, and the enemy can just stay out of its range. Anyways... I did that because I was GREATLY annoyed by seeing a Large OWP that was shooting CIG only (the biggest gun it could install)... and launching one Banshee every minute or so. (you, pay for the thing, place it with hassle, fill it with guns and then even a couple M6 can kill it? wtf!) I need feedback on them, only feedback can say if I made things good or wrong. imho with IR they are still too weak.

for the Nova prototype problem: Looks like a bug. Corrected now, it will be in the next version.
btw... if you want PSCO cockpits download the "optional pack" from my first page... his mod is not compatible with this so I had to make a compatible version myself.

for Xenons: in theory the Aldrin weapons are grouped together, so if a ship is compatible with EEMPC is compatible with EMAML and the PSSC too. The EMAML is L class cargo though... so xenon M and N cannot mount it (they have M and S class cargo respectively) the same thing applies to the PSSC too, only ships able to load XL cargo can use it. (so no fighter with starbursts) That is sure, the devs did the same thing with the Kyons... if a Khaak scout had XL cargo class it could mount the G-Kyon.
(if you follow my reasoning you can notice that the xenon L and LX can mount MAML... and that is intended maybe more damage than a PBE but way more dodgeable)

@Alphaspecies: all M1 have already compatibility to flaks (the heavier anti fighter weapon imho), and their generator is powerful enough to power them without much problems. Their coverage is pretty good too, so raising the guns with flaks is still useless imho.
the "missile turrets" look quite cool on Teladi M1 only nonM7M missiles though... even if a Missile barrage of Typhoons is deadly indeed.

[AlphaSpecies]

...

for Xenons: in theory the Aldrin weapons are grouped together, so if a ship is compatible with EEMPC is compatible with EMAML and the PSSC too. The EMAML is L class cargo though... so xenon M and N cannot mount it (they have M and S class cargo respectively) the same thing applies to the PSSC too, only ships able to load XL cargo can use it. (so no fighter with starbursts) That is sure, the devs did the same thing with the Kyons... if a Khaak scout had XL cargo class it could mount the G-Kyon.
(if you follow my reasoning you can notice that the xenon L and LX can mount MAML... and that is intended maybe more damage than a PBE but way more dodgeable)
...

Ah, the problem is, my MAMLs are only M-Cargo, though i use a modified TLasers based on CMOD3, maybe vanilla size is L, and so Xenon M can mount them, i'll just change that myself so its a bit more balanced. ( M4 with M6 weapons, ouch )

[someone else]

just checked. my mistake. I thought that they were L when in reality they are M cargo. Looks like the xenon M cargo class will soon drop to S. (all the other weapons that they use are S, so no problem)

p.s. be sure to mod the Prototype MAML.

[Lancefighter]

What I mean i guess is that the python needs something to set it apart - being fast doesnt help if you cant use that speed. my suggestion:

Make the python into a large battery. give it big guns all around, but give it smaller recharge. Makes it niche - its got firepower, but applying it in the right place is what matters most, because its unsustainable. this lets it use the speed to play like a split fighter does - cant load hept in all of a scorpions guns, because youll be out of energy in seconds, but your fast speed lets you doge in and out of a battle when you need to recharge.
I suggest trying this on all split ships, although it might not work for some.

[Raumkraut93]

great mod, but why is there an optional no-civilians-plugin? Does the orgiinal CMod Plugin not work? Why?

Because i want to have the "Xtreme" No Civilians Plugin with a lot more enemies and i think this optional one here is not the Xtreme but the normal one ...

[BlackRazor]

great mod, but why is there an optional no-civilians-plugin? Does the orgiinal CMod Plugin not work? Why?

This mod includes draffut's bug player fixes which fixes some problems in the Jobs file (which is responsible for spawning ships and giving them basic orders); Cmod's no civilians optional mods also alter the Jobs file in order to remove all civilians (and add more enemies in the Xtreme version). Hence there is a clash between the two mods and the last mod to be loaded will be the one used Jobs wise.

Because i want to have the "Xtreme" No Civilians Plugin with a lot more enemies and i think this optional one here is not the Xtreme but the normal one ...

Yes, I don't think the Xtreme version is available, hence you have a choice to make:
- Don't use Cmod's No Civilians Xterme edition
or
- Use Cmod's No Civilians Xterme edition but in this case know that you will lose draffut's fixed Jobs file.

[someone else]

@Lancefigher: mmh... the Scorpion had already the biggest weapon generator of Vanilla M4s, It just can load the HEPT that is a M3 weapon.
Following the same filosophy we can say "mount bigger guns on Python", but there are no bigger guns than Capital Guns. So I propose to raise its front guns to 12. Maybe raising side guns too to 12. It is not able to defend itself from fighters... so this way should be able to deal DEVASTATING damage on Capitals. (EDIT: it will lose the compatiblity to gauss cannons for obvious reasons...) Tell me what ya think.

@Raumkraut93: BlackRazor said almost everything...

I can try to create a Xtreme No Civilians if you want. Just tell me.

I'd advise Improved Races by 7ate9tin11s, it spawns and directs way smarter and fearsome enemies. Every feature is linked to a on/off button, and has some difficulty settings to make the game suited to your level of expertise. Worth a try imho. If you decide to use that just use the No Civilians you find from the first page. Improved Races will take care of providing enough enemies to let you "enjoy" the game .

p.s. so anyone has nothing more to say on M1 changes I proposed here?

p.p.s. anyone wants to try this shiny little mod? makes missiles more interesting...

[Raumkraut93]

@BlackRazor

thank you for the information

@someone else

Thanks for the advice, this "imrpoved races" scripts sounds very interesting
I think this replaces the Xtreme Plugin quite good

[The Invader Zim]

I have a problem. Some ships use the traileffects of the trailpack, but I dont installed it.
Is this mod merged with the trailpack?

[someone else]

nope. tell me what ships have the trails and what are the "trail effects" exactly.

(i'll have a look)

[Lancefighter]

i didnt mean generator, i mean max laser energy..

But yea, giving the python more weapons would work. i suppose, assuming it has the maneuverability and speed to keep the target in its sights.

Gauss cannon removal is something that cmod people might dislike.. (ie, me). Gauss cannons were changed fairly radically... Suppose in terms of balance, its probably still best though, even witht he cmod changes. Can always call in reinforcements for longranged fire support


As per your carriers, I agree your proposal - just be sure to put in some racial variations.

i wish there was longer ranges possible than just 9km :\ a 20km (turreted) fire support ship would be awesome.

[someone else]

i didnt mean generator, i mean max laser energy..

the Scorpion had more generator AND more laser energy than others in Vanilla (in the SRM the Mako has been risen on both to become the best one, following the "Borons have the better components because they were hand-made" line of thought)

Gauss cannon removal is something that cmod people might dislike..

I see what you mean. Gauss removal doesn't make a lot of sense on a Split ship.
What about Gauss being limited to only side turrets? if each side has 12 guns the sides will shoot alone 24 Gauss.
Python as it is now can mount max 24 gauss (8 front + 8 right + 8 left)
(and the side guns shoot forward so...) Perfectly Balanced.
This will limit the OMGness of a full-CMOD3Gauss Python. (36 Guns that shoot without energy consuption at a crazy range? OMFG!!!! )

[Lancefighter]

yea, side turrets only sounds reasonable.. Although having 36 of em would make taking out khaak ships easier

[xWolfzx]

Hi someone else, is there a changelog where i can view what was changed in the no civs mod by draffut? Great mod btw, i've been using this and cmod and loving it!

[Lancefighter]

Hi someone else, is there a changelog where i can view what was changed in the no civs mod by draffut? Great mod btw, i've been using this and cmod and loving it!

check the unofficial bugfix thread, thats where draffut does his stuff

[Raumkraut93]

what about improving the Boron Kalmar, i think its underpowered as it has the size of a argon titan, but less than half shields, 1/5 laser energy, much worse weapon and shield generator, less than half the cargo bay, only half weapon count. i know its an m7 but with the size of some M2 so i think it should be changed to a M7/M2 Hybrid (price can also be raised a bit if you want to, ~50 Mio.).

[OOZ662]

I've been thinking about the Split Tiger...their idea is supposed to be "more guns and speed with shields as an afterthought," yet it has more shielding than my Cerberus.