[MOD] Xtended X-Rebirth (XXR) - Initial Development Phase [2014-04-22]

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Wow! Such a positive response, I will go over all the ideas and try to produce a summary list somewhere.

Perhaps create a GoogleCode project to help with managing it, I have yet to speak to the TXU admin about the possibility of suitable facilities there but that would probably be my first option with GoogleCode running as a fallback alternative.

[Akeela]

I wish you all the luck in the world, for all my negativity about the game, I would so love it to become something fun and playable.

Things I would love to see:

- Expanded pirate faction or underworld of some kind that the player can join/lead

- towing vessel? Some way to get those immobile ships that can't be fixed somewhere to be of some use.

- Salvage ship. Like a mining vessel but can gather wares from wrecks or heavily damaged ships.

[KRM398]

The salvage ship idea is a good one, we lose millions in wares on board ships that have no jd or sometimes engines at all. I talked to some other people who said that surface miners mki 2 were supposed to pick up cargoes in space, but I never tried it. If they do, then we already have the basics, make it a basic construction design (they carry anything) and then use the Salvage Drones..to gather for it, then cargo drones to unload it and BANG...we have a new career, pirate/salvager...lots to sell and lots of ships to get stuff from during a war.

I was talking to someone...it doesn't seem to be here so I'll repeat it here...if we think positively, then the Skunk, docking to a bigger ship, is nothing but an eve pod docking at another vessel. If we think that way, then using the Skunk as a pod we can dock and command other, bigger vessels. Yes we might need to put a captain on it first but we can dock, get off the ship and stand talking to the captain while the ship does what we tell it to. Command by remote, what we were supposed to do now. It does work, partly tried it, you can command a captain to 'take me here' and his ship will. If you try and stay on board the skunk doing that, you lose dock and it throws you out, been there seen it. But get out, stand by the cpatain on HIS ship and its a smooth ride, try it.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

...

WRT the command issue, it will largely depend on how Egosoft have implemented it. Some of the issues that I have experienced could well be hard-code bugs, I would suggest testing and raising related issues in the Beta area. If we can do something about them, then we will.

Extending the dock area of docked capitals is one idea I have had, not sure of the feasibility - plus also considering removing the loot crates from capital dock areas - or at least from ones belonging to the player. Adding rooms such as a command deck with remote view screens is one idea I have been toying with as well as an effective - holodeck kind of external view to monitor the battle (and possibly issue commands). Need to see what is and is not feasible in this area.

I have also had an idea to try and work around the Skunk not being a trade vessel - some kind of inventory based trade promise notes and possibly adding a new trader (or expanding existing NPCs - e.g. managers) to include these notes in their inventory. The availability of these promise notes would be linked to current inventory levels. Purchase of a relevant promise note would remove the relevant amount from the station in question. This may also allow for some interesting alternatives to the concerns that have been raised since release (e.g. a black market dealer could sell items to you "at a heavily inflated price" that you are normally unable to acquire due to faction rep). The promise notes would not be as profitable as freighter trading so as to try and keep balance - may release this idea as a separate mod.

This could be extended to include a Salvager ROV along similar lines to what has been suggested - albeit the salvage notes would be a lower value and perhaps be illegal without a salvage license. Which leads to some other ideas - licenses and police for ROC (and possibly other factions).

There are also a few ideas that I have had and been presented with for plot extensions/improvements/side-steps but I do not want to raise them yet as they could be spoilers (and may not be 100% feasible). Without giving too much away, one related idea is some HOA policed zones (which there do not appear to be any of in the vanilla Albion region).

Still plan to and will summarise these and other ideas - but not until I have my pre-Christmas duties out of the way

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Hopfully like X3 version which did really change the game and is the best general mod in my opinion

My first idea was that this mod would be more along the lines of the original Xtended Mod for X3:R, but I have some personal concerns about some of the Vanilla plot content so another idea is a completely new plot (c/f XTC). However, the actual course of development will largely depend on the team that gets assembled to work on it and the combined vision primarily.

[mrowka]

With model changing you can basicly rewrite the plot, there are tons of ppl that can make some voice acting. It would be even better to make new ones to introduce some basics to new content and maybe improve(or completly change) the guide of the old content.

[KRM398]

The vanilla plot content is pretty bad..it basically says that a intelligent young man with little reason to do so will join a radical organization and betray his country, nation whatever, for no reason. There were at least 3 places so far in the storyline where I would have given Yisha back and flown away. but he wasn't allowed to.So now hes trapped and ,nearly, blackmailed into fighting for the HOA...ok he gets its really Argon trying to come back...but these people have lived this way, either happily or in denial of the truth for decades, so to just scream and run wildly with knives around the house with your eyes closed is deadly...hehe.

I'd do this...start with the same story, then add places for withdrawal.Like when he first met the carrier with her on board, he could have said no I'm not interested and either dropped her there or at the nearest station. Or when they tried to convince him he had to help hack the coms system another place to jump ship.Let him use these, or one of them but there's always the chance he'll rejoin them later either because he changes his mind or because hes forced to. Going into de fre isn't hard to explain I'd go just to see whats there maybe make my fortune while less adventurous are to frightened to. Many of the cut scenes are still good for that just Yisha wouldn't need to be in them.

[TinkerToy]

It may be an idea to sound out Egosoft with regards to their own plans for future expansions. For instance, it could be a bit awkward if the R:Xtended mod is built around a new plot line that introduces the Paranid, and Egosoft launches an expansion a few months later with the same theme but a different storyline...


One of the things I'd really love to see in a mod or expansion is the ability to build TRULY modular stations, i.e. where you could combine any selection of modules in one complex. It would be a great modelling challenge to achieve that capability without resorting to the equivalent of X3's "connector tubes"

[KRM398]

As far as Ego future plans for rebirth, I'm willing to guess that the next 6 months is just bug smashing, followed by 6 months fixing things that aren't working as intended and another 6 months getting everything up to speed and running properly. So expansions?? 2 years from now...want to wait? I say we go with the best ideas we can come up with and believe me, Ego isn't going to overwrite things we're doing, as far as they are concerned if we can do it for free they wont try it. That's smart business, so they wont mess with that.

[Sgt Hawker]

i can help test i have no shred or talent to program/mod so i can test and give detailed reports etc... as on a player side. shoot me a pm if you want me.

[steelgrey75]

How about adding in the ability to take stations by force? Force a landing at a dock on a hostile station, then fight your way through the inside of the station, take hard points within and take control of the station. This idea is inspired by Star Wars Battlefront 2, it was a very enjoyable part of the game I thought at the time.

[KRM398]

Boarding and taking stations was possible in one other game I think, but remember, it would take probably 100 marines to do it...if they win and it cant be a certainty. I'd say maybe 30% + chance. If it were a certainty then everyone would be doing it. So the question is, even if we do do it is the cost of losing 100 marines worth it to you?

This brings up some other things, hacking ships computers to assist boarding and a random boarding chance. As it is once you have 40+ marines that are medium and above, it guaranteed a win. That should never be. Their should be a chance the ship especially a war ship will have security forces on board one might have 10 one might have 50 you don't know. So getting free ships becomes random unless you have some way of seeing how many marines shes carrying. A freighter will have a small number, a light sol for instance will DEFINITELY have at least 2x as many, and a heavy sol or teranis would have more yet, so its never going to be a sure thing, ever.

And hacking should also be a way to get a free ship, after all once every system on board goes down will you stay and fight until the air runs out? I think not, but then a good engineer will fight back so to get it you might have to hack the stupid thing half a dozen times before it goes down completely, depending on how high the level of engineer is.

And there's the possibility of computer hacking from ship to ship, we had that in TC and AP, you needed a transporter, and special computer components, then you needed to get the shield all the way down and hold them there and then transport a chip on board, then it was a random chance of success. Of course the more you did it then you got better at it, a learning experience. That might work here too.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

i can help test i have no shred or talent to program/mod so i can test and give detailed reports etc... as on a player side. shoot me a pm if you want me.

Thanks for the offer - we will certainly need some cute and furry mammals to squeeze proverbial washing up liquid into the eyes of

Seriously though, we will probably need some people willing to just test some things to a death and try the things we both do and do not think of. So if anyone is interested in helping on that score (it will probably be a boring job to do) please feel free to put your name forward.

If anyone has good language skills, your help may be needed at some point to avoid any translation faux pas

As a side note - I would like to allow Egosoft blanket permission to re-use any material that we generate as part of this mod - if anyone has issue with this please say now, if there are some contributors who are resistant to the idea for their personal creative contribution I would add the relevant items to an exception list.

[ICO_hr]

I can help with textures, planets, ships, backgrounds, modeling,interiors, concept art...whatever you need.If you'll need stuff like that of course.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

I can help with textures, planets, ships, backgrounds, modeling,interiors, concept art...whatever you need.If you'll need stuff like that of course.

May come in handy when we hit the concept phase... I am hoping we can start that part of the process early in January 2014, for now let's keep the ideas coming

[KRM398]

Ideas are what I do for a hobby..lol So if you don't mind I'd like to send some stuff in, maybe do a few writing assignments when it becomes clear just what you need (aka what plot or missions you'll be using) I did a few missions/newspaper storys and bbs things for XTC so wouldn't mind helping a little. Not too happy with ego free access..they live for that, I'd like to see us be ourselves and keep everything we do it our own little game mod, but thats just me. I've seen ego make almost entirely new games out of modders stuff and saved themselves big bucks..so I hate to see a game company take free things without even offering a free game copy when they use it...(rant over...hehe)

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Is this really an attempt to start an Xtended project

yes - the idea being to go back to the foundations of what IMO an Xtended project used to mean (c/f XTM - Xtended Mod for X3:R).

There was some disagreement between XTM team members and XTC team members over the direction XTC should go (at least as I understood it). So the idea with XXR is to not lead with a specific vision but rather to facilitate the establishment of the team and the vision, assist with the conceptualisation, and finally make a plan of action for delivery of the final concept - which hopefully the assembled team will be able to follow through on (even if it turns out to be just me)... However, from the level of interest so far it looks like we have the beginnings of an XXR team.

[MagixJonsn]

i miss the sandbox/freedom, its ok for an actionshooter like battlefield or cod, but i want at least something like Hardwar or something.
Its ok when you want to clone good gameideas from Saints Row/The Elders Scroll/Fallout/WOW/Assassins Creed/Diablo3, but why must it always be something like hunt the flags(sorry i's, as itemhunting seems to be copyrighted from ubisoft) or other things that were just bad in the other games every other company is running after, like a donkey a carrot. I predict most games in 2014 will clone the single choice system in dialogs from egosoft, and in press conferences they will tell you how nice the new system is, as you have so many choices now in every game and for the casuals and consoleros its the holy grail, as they cannot choose the wrong one.

1. in devries let the stations be reconstructed after you send enough materials their way(or upgraded to xrebirth stations and extend them to fully build complexes later on).

2. get rid of the move.die, and make it that each station has a max for freighers working for it, maybe some free traiders too. For combat ships let them secure a zone and if everything is full, nothing will be build anymore, but as ships stockpile up, pirates might have it easier to raid some loot, and as such create a hole for new ships to replace the old ones.

3. get rid of all do nothing ships(in highways, some mass traffic can stay, but a handfull is enough), the small and medium ships should be for transport too and help the economy.

4. add sectors/zones for heart of albion where they have their own shipyard and resources, so they don't have to build at the pmc yard.

5. please make it campaign compatible

6. get the small and medium shipconstruction working.

7. bring back blueprints, so i have to deconstruct a ship prior to be able to build it. Each shipyard should have based on the system different lists to choose from, from the start.

8. Scanning stationparts/-moduls should give you construction infos, so if you have a devries construction ship, it can only build devries stations(it should shop in the buildplan what stationparts you are missing to build the albion stations.).

9. limit fuel cell consumption to 100.

10. an option to turn of the asking if a captain should buy fuel cells, its kinda anoying with 10 freighters out. And he should have a AI script for it, or is it sims4 in space?(oh, sorry, the sims go to the toilet and do other things without player interaction, so ...)

11. make trade through the gates possible, its kinda lame, that the player has the only ship/ships that can use a gate. And if Plutarch has it closed, maybe 1 out of 20 freighters should make it throu and on the bright side the shipyards have something to do this way.

12. let me give one/more xl ship(s) to a captain of another one, a manager, or an smaller one. so i can let an arwan escort a freighter for example.

13. fix somehow the pirate economy, like freighters drop 80% of their cargo when they are destroyed, or like the bailing, there is a change a freighter drops its cargo. They should have some universal cargo space in their ships. Pirate ships should be able to be build at pirate stations. Pirates should be able to board ships, and falseid the transportships so they can buy at "normal" stations(like smugglers, so you can get influence by hunting down smugglers around station, like what currently the "police" does).

14. Make it a Sandbox, let HoA and other factions transport things to the other systems. Dunno how to set PMC and HoA to a level so for example every 5th ship gets only attacked by PMC or boarded(in freemode, and to full hostile in campaign).

15. Give the NPC the same things as the Player has, Drones, Weapons, Shields, ...

In general make the players impact less Marvel Action Figure like, save the Galaxy as 1 man Army in an old dinghy, cure cancer with the help of a stick of wood, .... . I hate it since 15 years or so, that every playerchar has to be an uncontested hero, unique to the galaxy, a child from god and the devil with a Supersolder spliced in.
The player should be someone that can fiddle in the story of the galaxy, not write it, else i want a bigger fleet as the bigger factions and an option to set rules for my underlings to build temples everywhere, with nice templepriestesses, and a ship worthy of an supreme overlord.
And than the story is wrong, as ruler of the universe, why just not move the little finger and has the heads of PMC thrown into the next sun and confiscate their stations?

Have so many people something so big to compensate, that they need to target them specific with overpolarized hero figures, superpower equipment and build in cheats(are there mk4/5 shielded NPCs, or NPCs with MK2 Weapons?) so everyone can say he solved every game in 2 hours without cheats?

In other words: Do what you like, we will play it and love it regardless

[mitah_]

I think with the weak story delivered by Egosoft it would be a good idea to focus on game mechanics and ignore a fixed plot or story for the first stage ... we don't know what Egosoft plans for the future, and I from what I noticed people interested in the Extended mods were fed up with the official plots.

That said, ignore the official lore and start XT:R with a custom start with no continuous storyline but maybe only some 'missions' to further the development of the universe - do this mission or that and discover a new system, or a time based system where very x game hours new content will be available (systems, weapons, ships, drones) ... you don't need a plot for that, and it makes the universe feel more alive.

other suggestions:

* MARS - I think MARS was the pinnacle of drone usage in a video game - simple and versatile, some basic settings and context sensitive controls for your drones (you could run mars with 2 or 3 bound keys)

* remove clutter/unused ships

* reintroduce a ship classification system with custom HUD icons

* reduce number of HUD modes, combine some (why not just 1 scanning mode)


* reduce/rename drones, or add more distinction

* modular or more diverse capital ships (mobile drone production, mobile energy generation, salvage and/or towing ships, ...)

--

There are so many things I find wrong with Rebirth I couldn't list them all here, but I guess AP was the best X game considering game mechanics.

Just add better asset/property management, fleet management and station building (already included in XR, although not perfect) and you would make a lot of people happy

[KRM398]

hahaha...and the trade exchange needs to come back. It was a pain at first then I thought it got fun after a while. But make it universal, not just the Tekadi Exchange but 'The Trade Exchange' for all civilizations, every military and government needs money so trade is universal in any X game.

Only need what...4 kinds of drones? Combat/construction (also used for cargo gathering)/scanning (for trade purposes would scan stations in sector they are dropped) and hacking (pirate drones..illegal in some sectors)

combat drones are just improved versions of the fighter drone we used to have.

The construction drone is a dexterous drone used for building because they can do detailed work autonomously, they can also be ordered to gather tagged cargoes after battles or from wrecks.

The scanning drone is a simple to use autonomous drone for traders. drop it in any sector,it automatically sends you updates on prices at all stations in the sector, if it gets destroyed info stops coming you'll need to drop another one or forfeit that sectors business.

Hacker drones are used for stealing or capturing ships. There could even be a license for them if you want to use them legally. But they are used by pirates a lot to steal cargo from docked ships and can be used to shut down key systems so that boarding is easier and even in its extreme can shut down an entire ship and force evacuation of the crew.

That's some items we have and their older counterparts from the X games and how I think they can be used in the new one.