Part three of Steam debate - split and archived.

[Rabiator der II.]

From my experience, I can say Steam has improved over the years.
I still don't quite trust it, but that is mostly about the possibility Valve could do something nasty to my games in the future (or go under and take the Steam servers with it). And you better have a broadband connection, as Steam tends to do a lot of patching. So TEKing66 has a point there
But back to how things developed:

When Half Life 2 was new, the inadequacies of Steam caused quite a furor on the internet. Lots of people cursing Valve, and that was probably deserved.

IIRC one or two years later I got a copy of Day Of Defeat: Source. At the time, things were better than at the release of HL2, but outages were still frequent. Especially the Friends network was often unavailable.

Today, it has become rare that a Steam game won't start. Very occasionally I get a "this game is currently not available", but it is usually fixed after 10 minutes. So I have to admit that Steam usually works fine.

[Kor'ah]

I hardly think there will be a "Steam Free" exe of XR. There is just no money in such a thing. In the end it'll be just simple economics that drives the issue.


One nice thing with Steam that has popped up in the last month is the new workshop for mods. It working pretty well for Skyrim and I would be highly surprised is Egosoft doesn't take advantage of this function for XR. It helps the modding community distribute their work. That can't be a bad thing.

[A5PECT]

There is just no money in such a thing.

I have at least a bit of hope for it.

X3R 2.0
X3TC 2.0
X3TC 3.0
X3AP 2.0

Egosoft has a weird habit of giving away certain stuffs for free. So you can't say every decision they make is based purely on the money.

[TEKing66]

Yes, I agree, Egosoft has been very generous. If they would just say that at XRebirth's "End of Life" they will release a Steam-free patch. Then, I would sign up tomorrow. I can be patient, I have with X3AP. I'll do Rebirth the Same way. Get it, patch it up, and patch it out of Steam. The They are happy, I'm happy, and everyone's happy.

Like I have said before, for a Steam free DVD I am willing to pay $120 to $160, even at that price Egosoft's games are a deal. I have a save for Xtension that has 3+ years of game time on it, one each for X2 & X3R that have 1+ years of game play, I have a X3TC save just short of a year. So, yea, that kind of game is worth the above mentioned money to me. And it is also the reason that I'm not leaving anytime soon, unless the big guy upstairs has other plans at least.

[David Howland]

Well stated TEKing66,
I would second most of what you say, except patch in/ patch out does not help all those loyal X fans who have played and supported ES for up to ten years, who do not have internet.
You and I can download and patch out Steam, that is if the patch promised actually works and it is not a scam to get some die hard suckers to infect their systems with Steam? Some however are not so fortunate, for them the X betrayal is complete, unless we can change the mind of gOD.
So the hopeless struggle must go on and as you and I patch Steam off our computers (if it works), let us shed a tear of regret for the thousands that cannot do likewise!

[Tycow]

that is if the patch promised actually works and it is not a scam to get some die hard suckers to infect their systems with Steam? !

Wow. Just... wow.

Egosoft do something they don't have to in providing a patch to allow you to play AP without Steam, and you accuse them of possibly being part of some grand scam?? I bet they read posts like yours and wonder why they even bother.

[Alan Phipps]

First - no Egosoft insider knowledge here, I'm just a Player.

David seems to have misunderstood the whole function of the patch. It removes the extant requirement to run Steam Client or be online from a game of X3AP that already requires Steam. If the patch were not to work then either the game would not work at all or it would not work without Steam and being online - which surely defeats the whole point of releasing the patch in the first place.

I think the first users to download and try out a non-functional patch would be quite vocal in protesting and warn the others if that turned out to be the case. Also does he think the patch will not be functionally Beta-Tested?

A self-defeating and impractical conspiracy theory is being touted there I feel.

[David Howland]

GENTLEMEM, gentlemen,
Now how did I know that would happen, reactions to my post completely missing the main points ie. agreement with the previous post and the pity that nothing has been done for the poor loyal fans without internet betrayed, and picking up on the trivial suspicion of the patch?
Well of Tycow that is fair enough but really Alan, you should be ashamed of yourself!
However on the tech. point of if the patch was meant to remove Steam and do nothing to the game and it failed to do that, leaving Steam or part of Steam still active, why should that stop the game from working?

[Alan Phipps]

@ David Howland: Perhaps because your 'trivial suspicion of the patch' is both offensive and disparaging of Egosoft and deserved some sensible rebuttal. I replied to your post with my Moderator hat off and see no reason to be ashamed of expressing my personal opinions on the forum as an entitled and reasoning X gamer.

If you attack my personal right to do so I can easily slip the hat back on and deal with it more officially, but I do not wish to do that.

[Slashman]

How does the patch currently work, or how is it supposed to work?

I was of the impression that you downloaded and setup AP with Steam as normal and then apply the patch, thus allowing you to run the game without needing to start Steam. You could then theoretically remove Steam from your system and play AP.

[Alan Phipps]

@ Slashman, that is correct as I understand it.

[TTD]

But that still does not help those who do not want Steam on their system to start with.

I was hoping that the non-Steam exe would have been an optional choice on the DVD release,so that you would not need Steam on your system at all.

[Alan Phipps]

That was not on offer if you followed the X3AP Announcement and Retail threads. All official information about it has always said that X3AP would need to be activated on Steam and that the no-Steam patch could be applied only after activation. (I suspect but do not know that it will look for a downloaded Steam exe file to replace.)

Egosoft/DeepSilver has the right to change that policy of course but there has been no indication anywhere that they have done so or might do so.

[Slashman]

But that still does not help those who do not want Steam on their system to start with.

No it doesn't. But I can see why they would do it this way.

I was hoping that the non-Steam exe would have been an optional choice on the DVD release,so that you would not need Steam on your system at all.

There are a few reasons why they wouldn't make it an install option from the disk.

1) The game isn't technically supposed to be run sans Steam, and having that as an install option would lead an uneducated player to simply opt out of Steam without realizing that there is no official support for the version they are running. People often skip detailed explanations when they are anxious to install and play their game.

2) I tend to doubt that they want to promote the idea of running Steam-free since Rebirth will be a Steamworks game. The Steam-free option is specifically targeted at people who can't run Steam or who don't want it running during their gaming sessions.

3) There is probably the matter of having no other form of protection on the disk(at least I'm assuming so). So authenticating through Steam is the only means to activate AP.

Those are my assumptions on why they haven't done it. It could also, of course, be good old-fashioned laziness. Or maybe they are really busy with Rebirth(which they really need to start giving us more information about before there is a riot on their hands. You have been warned Egosoft!!!).

[TTD]

The Steam-free option is specifically targeted at people who can't run Steam

So how does someone , who can't run Steam on their system , get to install AP and the non-Steam exe?

[Shimrod]

Regardless of potential workarounds to cater for non Steam users in this instance, it's clear that PC gaming in general has shifted completely to requiring online accounts, be it Steam, battle.net or whatever. I gather consoles are going the same way so there's no escape.

To continue PC gaming, one must either buy into that completely or face disappointment and uphill struggle.

For me, this suggests a new hobby is necessary as the last option just offers ongoing pain. Ebooks have been doing the trick for me, combined with hi fi and real ale. I'm checking these forums for issues relating to my scripts but I'm pretty much reconciled to a life without PC gaming.

[TEKing66]

@Shimrod, I would have to agree with you in that PC gaming is headed to the "cloud", heaven only knows how I wish the "cloud" would just dissapaite.
Steam is but a small part of that issue, and I am sorry but I just don't like the idea of "my" data being in the "cloud" where it could be held hostage or worse.

I to have been exploring new hobbies as I fear PC gaming, the way it should be, is dying a slow death for myself and people who feel as I do. Music has always been there for me, and of late it has been playing an increasing roll. Guess I should think Egosoft & Steam for giving me the extra time to put towards it.

@ David Howland, Yes I will be patching Steam out, but for me to get "up to date" with Steam first. That requires me to travel for a half hour to get to a broadband connection, download and verify everything works, then travel back home and copy everything over (so I have a good backup), only then I can patch Steam out. For me, it's more that just downloading a patch. People with broadband basicly get the patches for free, I am paying for internet service just as they are, yet I still must spend money on gasoline to go to a broadband connection and get my patches. Again, IF I could get broadband this would not be an issue, but I can't so it is. And this is the biggest reason I despise Steam, it had another layer to a process that was not broken in the first place.

[Slashman]

The Steam-free option is specifically targeted at people who can't run Steam

So how does someone , who can't run Steam on their system , get to install AP and the non-Steam exe?

Sorry...my mistake. I meant that they can't run it due to limited or insufficient internet bandwidth. This as opposed to people who don't want to run it at all.

With the DVD, all the files are there, so you won't need to download a lot from the Steam servers to get the game running...in theory.

That actually brings up a point. With the DVD, will the game need to update to the latest version, or will it run with the version that is on the disk once activation is completed?

[EternalSpace]

The only game I have with Steam was Half-Life 2. I never use steam and don't plan on it either. The reason? If it was my main platform for accessing gaming it would be fine, but it is not. And because of this I don't keep track of the account which I obviously need to do, but seriously for one or two games it's not worth the headache or potential loss if I do forget to log in all the time to remember my passwords. I hate being forced to use Steam and when I am presented with that in any way or form I avoid the game or bypass steam all together. It's an annoying troublesome system that does nothing to improve on my experiences while gaming. In 10 years if I feel nostalgic will I be able to play this game again? Probably not because Steam is just the beginning of a bunch of crap we will be force fed in the future.

[NUKLEAR-SLUG]

Valve aren't going to delete your account just because you've forgotten your login. Sites provide password recovery pretty much as standard for a reason you know.