Should X be Multiplayer? (Poll) I wan't to make egosoft see how many people want this

[TheBypasser]

Multiplayer X? NO! X was and is the best singleplayer freelance space sim, the great follower of the Elite! And making it multiplayer is just stupid!

[Nanook]

After further thought, we'd also have to get rid of the jumpdrive. Why? Well, just think about how that would fit into a game with several players. How much fun would it be to have an opposing player simply jump around to all your stations and blow them up with virtual impunity? How could you possibly protect them without being there yourself? You can hardly expect the AI to defeat a human opponent. The only fair thing to do would be to eliminate the jumpdrive completely.

Very interesting, considering that you can do that same thing in the game right now. But we arent opposed to the jump drive in the game now, because AI doesnt do that. Which means we cant really have smarter AI in X3, because it really will screw up our game because of the jump drive.

Seems to me jump drives are unfair advantage right now too then, if to follow same logic, I see no reason to remove them.

You're grasping here. You can hardly equate the AI behaviour, which is programmed into the game by the developers, with a human. Human players actually think, and plot, and take advantage of whatever they want. There's nothing to prevent a human player from doing what I stated, but the AI can't do that unless we tell it to. And we don't because it would make most players very upset and frustrated, I'd say.

I'd like to also point out the "fairness" of games. This is something that MMO has to REALLY work out, a multiplayer game does not have to have those rules.
There are ways you can get around that problem.

there's nothing to really prevent another player from simply flying around blowing up your assets while you were elsewhere.

And what prevents any other enemy ship in X3 from attacking any of your ships?

Because the AI's not programmed to do it? What kind of game would it be if the AI did what a human could do, without restrictions? Not much fun, you think??

and no player-owned, AI-controlled ships at all. Is this really what we want?

That's not the only solution.

Alright, let's hear yours then. How would you make the game stay as it is, while not letting other players simply destroy all your assets? How would you prevent it from simply being a deathmatch shoot-em-up? How would you ever build anything at all without someone coming along and simply blowing it up? Basically, how could you have the current universe as it now stands and still have a fair and decent multiplayer experience? I really don't think it's possible. It will require a brand new game, designed from the bottom up for multiplayer. And it would have to eliminate a lot of the features that make the single player game so fun and immersive (at least, for some of us).

[fiksal]

but the AI can't do that unless we tell it to. And we don't because it would make most players very upset and frustrated, I'd say.

By "smarter" I meant, programmed to do more things
I see I might be alone on that, but I prefer an oponnent who has access to same items as player does (or has same stats), but same time can present the challenge.

And what prevents any other enemy ship in X3 from attacking any of your ships?

Because the AI's not programmed to do it? What kind of game would it be if the AI did what a human could do, without restrictions? Not much fun, you think??

My point exactly! AI is...nice.
But why not? I actually think it'd be fun. In the worst case, that's what the difficulty setting s for.

and no player-owned, AI-controlled ships at all. Is this really what we want?

That's not the only solution.

Alright, let's hear yours then.

Sure I can give a stab; pretty much same stuff that I keep on saying...

Let's say it's not MMO, let's say it's a multiplayer game with a lot fewer people (than MMO) per server/game.

How would you make the game stay as it is, while not letting other players simply destroy all your assets?

If you want "nice" opponents (like the AI in singleplayer game), you should be on a friendlier server.
If it's so happens that it's not, and there are people who really like killing NPCs, but not being under fire from PCs, then the server should have a setting that restricts player ship vs player ship combat.
(Obviously if you dont want to play with people, period, you wouldnt like the multiplayer)

How would you prevent it from simply being a deathmatch shoot-em-up?

Option above for "non-PvP" games, so to speak.

How would you ever build anything at all without someone coming along and simply blowing it up? Basically, how could you have the current universe as it now stands and still have a fair and decent multiplayer experience? I really don't think it's possible.

Ok, this is more the issue where PvP combat is allowed (which is closer to the rules of X3, where you can attack anyone and anything).
1st of all, just like any multiplayer game, no matter what the rules are - people that you play with make a big difference. A good game will be horrible with wrong people. So the first choice to make - is the server, and/or the group of people.
With the right group of people, it's then less of an issue but still a problem.
If the Universe (because of players) suddenly becomes more hostile than the usual, then already existing game measures can be taken - like heavily reduced race rep, or following attack from race M1's against the aggressor (like a Race response script).
If that is not enough, then the non-PvP condition can be forced for the new players (if they choose to) in core sectors, for example.

And by the way, since it takes so much time to build anything, I think the servers (upon the agreement of players) should allow importing of saved games; which means you may not need to start from 0 every time. Which also addresses the possibility of loss of all your property.

It will require a brand new game, designed from the bottom up for multiplayer.

Yes, it'd be a new game.

Sure what I put here will change the game, but hopefully that'll keep things we like about X3.

And it would have to eliminate a lot of the features that make the single player game so fun and immersive (at least, for some of us).

Hm, not for me.
However MMO would face same problems to a greater degree - and that one will be in danger becoming EVE's clone. Which won't be same "fun" for me either.

[Nanook]

blah, blah, blah .....

It will require a brand new game, designed from the bottom up for multiplayer.

Yes, it'd be a new game.... more blah, blah.

FINALLY, you get my point. Which is that you can't simply add a multiplayer component to the current game. Egosoft would have to dedicate time and energy to making both a single player game and a multiplayer game. Which, in most peoples opinions, seems to be a very bad idea. The SP game is far from perfect, yet you propose to solve the problems by making a brand new, MP game. Sorry, given the choice, I want Egosoft to spend their efforts on SP.

[Syndrome]

How, though, could X be LAN multiplayer? I mean, what would you do with two or more people on such a massive universe?

Multiplayer is only good if it's used by the (aprox.) 215,000 people who play X. There would be no NPCs, and gameplay would be much more realistic. For example: say you just started a game and you didn't even have a ship yet. You could talk to someone else who had a ship or two, and work for him but trading and making profit. You, of coarse, would get about 40 or 50% of the profit.

[Cycrow]

we actually solved both of the problems in Firelance, jumpdrive and SETA.

Firelance completely removed SETA, but was replaced with something called the Slipstream drive, which works in a simlar way but speeds up the ship instead of the game.

of course, unlike SETA it doesn't increase the speed you make money, ie your traders and factories. Which is personally think is better, but im sure alot of ppl would complain if thats the case.

as for jumpdrives, we turned m6's into jumpdrive emitters, which will block you from jumping in or out in range of an M6, this effectivly stopped you from just jumping anywhere you like and made you sometimes having to travel pirate alleys and more dangerous sectors to get to places.

of course even with these changes, the game will only be able to be a LAN at best, as when you play against friends, you only need to run the server when you and your friends are playing, it doesn't really need to be constatly running.

but for an online game, it needs to deal with it being running all the time. And control players assests while they not player, there really is no simple way to do this.

and thats only one of the problems with an online game, there are lots more

[fiksal]

blah, blah, blah .....

It will require a brand new game, designed from the bottom up for multiplayer.

Yes, it'd be a new game.... more blah, blah.

FINALLY, you get my point.

Thanks for mocking me. I appreciate that.

What point did I get?

Which is that you can't simply add a multiplayer component to the current game.

Did I say that X3 can be multiplayer game? I cant find it.

Egosoft would have to dedicate time and energy to making both a single player game and a multiplayer game. Which, in most peoples opinions, seems to be a very bad idea.

If Egosoft can have enough capital to do that, and will be able to attract more people - then in my opinion, it's not a bad idea.

The SP game is far from perfect, yet you propose to solve the problems by making a brand new, MP game.

No, I definetly had not proposed that.

My point was that X game can be made into multiplayer and can be made as interesting as the singleplayer one.

[fiksal]

we actually solved both of the problems in Firelance, jumpdrive and SETA.

Firelance completely removed SETA, but was replaced with something called the Slipstream drive, which works in a simlar way but speeds up the ship instead of the game.

Yep, that's a solution too. I think Eve might have something like that.
The only reason I dont mention that because such thing doesnt currently exist in X.

as for jumpdrives, we turned m6's into jumpdrive emitters, which will block you from jumping in or out in range of an M6, this effectivly stopped you from just jumping anywhere you like and made you sometimes having to travel pirate alleys and more dangerous sectors to get to places.

That's also seems like a good idea.

but for an online game, it needs to deal with it being running all the time. And control players assests while they not player, there really is no simple way to do this.

Exactly.

[esd]

Could people only please post once in a row? If you have something to add after you've replied, and there's been no replies to your post - use the edit button. Thanks.

[fiksal]

Could people only please post once in a row? If you have something to add after you've replied, and there's been no replies to your post - use the edit button. Thanks.

yep, sorry about that

[elwayno]

im a big fan of multiplayer online games but x wouldnt be the kind of game that u can pick up if ur on holiday or summat like

[blazer1121]

I haven't read what everyone has said so far, but in my opinion, a multiplayer X would be much better than EVE

1. EVE has sucky 3rd person view!! I thought that we'd be rid of third person view in space sims after it was so terrible in Freelancer.

2. It can be any multiplayer LAN or internet.

3. With the right control methods it would be easy to stop constant carnage and newbie ganking he he newbie ganking is fun though

Well thats my 2 cents worth.

[Tenlar Scarflame]

Seems to me that the issue isn't so much with how the universe could fit an MMORPG, but exactly how much computing muscle it would take to run this beast both game-side and server-side. If we're talking about everyone in an MMORPG possibly owning a fleet, and each ship and factory is doing stuff and receiving orders and dynamically making decisions... well, that's a lot for a processor to think about.

It would be easy to place restrictions on noob killing and such (it's, say, illegal and you'd get the local military (perhaps a hired player police force) on your arse in a heartbeat ^_^). On this side of the equation though, there would have to be quite substantial changes to the fabric of the game (MUCH MUCH MUCH more expansive sectors, or things would get incredibly crowded fast- jumpdrives would also have to at least be tweaked a LOT).

Oh yeah, and Suzie would have to only be on one station at a time so as not to confuse her parents. She may be one of the ancients and the UFO pilot but she's not a ninja

[shane-oh]

I don't think that X becoming a multiplayer like EVE would be that good, if they were to implement a multiplayer I think that it should be like the combat simulator in the tutorials bit, and basically you have to see who can make the most kills (sounds boring but in practice I reckon it would be pretty good), a large variety of enemies (as long as you are able to kill them, not unrealistic scenarios like an m5 vs an m2), perhaps different ways to start e.g an m2 and some m3's as ships you have to begin with, also different difficulties/handicaps like no fight command software and weak weapons for a difficult start and all fight command software and maxed weapons and shields. well possibilites are endless but its not going to happen in any X soon, maybe X7 (if they make it that far, your character: Franklin Brennan, Julian's uncles's brother's sister's grand nephew, he's half khaak).

[Coshy]

A co-op, non-pvp multiplayer game may work within the X-theme.

However IMO any type of multiplayer X would decimate one of the fundamentals of the X series, and that is your ability to do ANYTHING at ANY TIME and do it ANYWHERE.

What if you logged on, decided to take your M3 to pirate alley and score some caps, or at least a cargo hold full of missiles, only to find some Ub3r 1337 d00d has parked his M2 at one gate and his Elephant at the other and has a whole squadron of wingmen buzzing around the sector. If you dont think something like this would happen ... then I wager you have never played an MMO.

Or what happens if you log on and before you even get fully rendered, you find yourself at the business end of a set of BHEPTS?

The solution? Place limitations on the players (and therefore make it not an X game)

There would have to be limitations. Such as:
You cant build here
You cant fight here
You cant trade here
You cant think here

Ok, so some of us have problems with #4 in the single player game, which would make a multiplayer game that much more frustrating.

There are tons of techical issues that would have to be overcome, but the more difficult hurdles are more about the people that play, than the machines they play it on. And if you place limitations on the game play, to make the game more 'fair', then you have something that is not X.

[esd]

I haven't read what everyone has said so far, but in my opinion, a multiplayer X would be much better than EVE

I'm wondering if you still want Egosoft to listen to the poll results, as you asked in your OP.

[jlehtone]

Or what happens if you log on and before you even get fully rendered, you find yourself at the business end of a set of BHEPTS?

And think about the burden on the owner of those BHEPTS. He would have to check if it was a NPC or player that got wasted accidentally. One has to say sorry to local police, if it was a NPC.

[g04tn4d0]

Hm. Somehow I imagine that as far as redesign of the gameplay goes it shouldnt be too much, because multiplayer doesnt need to have the kind of balancing rules that MMO must have, and it doesnt need to support hundreds of players on the same server.
The only major problems I see right now are the SETA, small size of the sectors, and perhaps missions.

The fact of the matter is EgoSoft is continuously building directly off their current technologies. A multiplayer version of X3 (or X4) would require major rewriting or (possibly easier) use of a different engine altogether. If they were losing all their sales to Eve Online, Freelancer, or Battlecruiser Millenium Gold, then it would obviously be time for EgoSoft to reevaluate their battle plan. But as it stands right now, the only way we'd ever see a multiplayer X-game is if the guys that own EgoSoft were to suddenly become personally obsessed with the idea of implementing it.

[Mudkest]

yes, but not mmorpg multiplayer like. but lan/internet with private servers would be nice. something like nwn though I am not sure onlimit of people, sectors and what not

[fiksal]

The fact of the matter is EgoSoft is continuously building directly off their current technologies. A multiplayer version of X3 (or X4) would require major rewriting or (possibly easier) use of a different engine altogether. If they were losing all their sales to Eve Online, Freelancer, or Battlecruiser Millenium Gold, then it would obviously be time for EgoSoft to reevaluate their battle plan. But as it stands right now, the only way we'd ever see a multiplayer X-game is if the guys that own EgoSoft were to suddenly become personally obsessed with the idea of implementing it.

Yep, that makes sense.
I'd want to see multiplayer in this game, but I think we are more likely to get an MMO at the end... which would put it in competition with EVE (dont know if it's a good or a bad thing).