Manual for US version of X³: Reunion

AgtSmith · Post by **AgtSmith** » Mon, 12. Dec 05, 07:37

NarcissusG wrote:
esd wrote:Yes there is - it could quite easily be because they want to perfect it first?
Maybe they should have felt that way before selling the incomplete game/manual?

Exactly. I love how these game developers allways talk about quality control and all that stuff AFTER they get our money. Really, no offense to Egosoft but they eare full of you know what saying they are taking the time to get it right. Here is why that is an UTTER LIE. If, in fact, the version that shipped was an "old" version that got sent for publish by mistake then day one the correct version should have been on the website for download because it was done. The ONLY way this has come to pass is if the correct version was never done! Period. End of debate. It is months after release and still no manual means that the manual was not done on release day when, in fact, it should have been done well before release day (like production day).

Egosoft is a bunch of liars, and in my opinion, cheats for scamming people into buying something that by any reasonable standard has inadequate instructions to be used and enjoyed as intended. You can spin it any way you want but that much is fact.

fireflyry · Post by **fireflyry** » Mon, 12. Dec 05, 07:43

AgtSmith wrote:
NarcissusG wrote:
esd wrote:Yes there is - it could quite easily be because they want to perfect it first?
Maybe they should have felt that way before selling the incomplete game/manual?
Exactly. I love how these game developers allways talk about quality control and all that stuff AFTER they get our money. Really, no offense to Egosoft but they eare full of you know what saying they are taking the time to get it right. Here is why that is an UTTER LIE. If, in fact, the version that shipped was an "old" version that got sent for publish by mistake then day one the correct version should have been on the website for download because it was done. The ONLY way this has come to pass is if the correct version was never done! Period. End of debate. It is months after release and still no manual means that the manual was not done on release day when, in fact, it should have been done well before release day (like production day).

Egosoft is a bunch of liars, and in my opinion, cheats for scamming people into buying something that by any reasonable standard has inadequate instructions to be used and enjoyed as intended. You can spin it any way you want but that much is fact.

I like your style.Am I the only one that feels like they are a part-time "game-tester" these days?

AgtSmith · Post by **AgtSmith** » Mon, 12. Dec 05, 08:01

Agreed.

Is sad that I even expect bugs with games these days, it sucks and I piss and moan about it because I think the least a company deserves is serious negative attention until they fix it all up. But a game manual? come on! That is a new low. I mean it is one thing if BF2 or Quake 4 doesn't have a manual or in game tutorial/storyline to walk you into the game but a game like this? Is simply outrageous to ship a game like this without a complete and detailed manual, even worse to ship it without a complete and detailed in game tutorial to walk people through what the X Universe is about.

All I can say in an industry that is consistantly underperforming the expectations of its customers and where we all expect to be treated like dog crap by developers it is really, REALLY saying something that Egosoft has managed to outdo the industries own low standard.

fireflyry · Post by **fireflyry** » Mon, 12. Dec 05, 08:53

AgtSmith wrote:Agreed.

Is sad that I even expect bugs with games these days, it sucks and I piss and moan about it because I think the least a company deserves is serious negative attention until they fix it all up. But a game manual? come on! That is a new low. I mean it is one thing if BF2 or Quake 4 doesn't have a manual or in game tutorial/storyline to walk you into the game but a game like this? Is simply outrageous to ship a game like this without a complete and detailed manual, even worse to ship it without a complete and detailed in game tutorial to walk people through what the X Universe is about.

All I can say in an industry that is consistantly underperforming the expectations of its customers and where we all expect to be treated like dog crap by developers it is really, REALLY saying something that Egosoft has managed to outdo the industries own low standard.

It gets to me that guys are actually paid to test this product as a full time job.They have my dream job of playing games all day yet stuff it up.

All I can say is the gaming industry now earns more than the movie industry yet you don't see them with "patching power!!"

John Claude Van Damme would be stoked!!!!

"Ya guys I know Streetfighter is a lame movie but we fix the crappy script and my wooden acting in the next patch!!Streetfighter 1.7 will be uber-cool ya!!!"

jay.g · Post by **jay.g** » Mon, 12. Dec 05, 13:09

I really try to LOVE X3, but I can't-

The bugs, the bad mission design (some of them are the worst missions I've ever played...), some wrong features and that manual makes it really hard not to hate this game.

I really want to recommend X3 to my friens/family, but I can't-

The bugs, the lack of ways to get into this game without being frustrated after 2 hours of doing nothing, the lack of a guide or any intuitive steering would embarras me, if I did.

OK- games can have some minor bugs- but if you want to make a good game, take more time for Beta-testing and less for programming new features- you can add new features in patches- but not a manual/major bugfixes.

One major bug can be a good reason to quit this game.

I really enjoyed X2(>200 factories, lots of capitals), but I can't really get into X3 now.

AgtSmith · Post by **AgtSmith** » Mon, 12. Dec 05, 17:54

esd wrote:
That would take effort and work on thier part and what you are missing is that they obviously couldn't care less about us getting what we payed for or they would have allready corrected it.

Sorry to be blunt but there is NO other rational explination
Yes there is - it could quite easily be because they want to perfect it first?

So then you are admitting that they sold the game without a manual being completed? If that is so then I think they are the most dishonest and dispicable game company I have ever come across. Selling a game like X3 wihtout a proper manual is just wrong, and then claiming afterwards that it was a snafu with the wrong copy being sent to press when it is obvious there NEVER was a right copy is just BS.

esd · Post by **esd** » Mon, 12. Dec 05, 18:18

So then you are admitting that they sold the game without a manual being completed?

I'm saying that because of the mixup (or whatever happened with it, I'm as clued-in as you are) with the US manual, they've got a chance to re-write it, and they want to do a good job of it.

AgtSmith · Post by **AgtSmith** » Mon, 12. Dec 05, 19:23

Come on, do you really believe that? I should hope you are smarter than that.

There is just no way that this story of the wrong manual version being sent to press is true. If it where then they could have posted the 'right' version the first day it became clear that the mistake had happened as, according to thier lie, it was done. Holding off on supplying the correct version under the guise of making improvements is total BS because posting the one that should have shipped with the game does NOT prevent them from making later supplemental releases of any additions they would want to make to the manual and doing so would take all of about 3 minutes if it actually existed.

It is OBVIOUS to anyone with a brain that there is no 'correct' copy of the manual and, therefore, they are not writing a new and improved version but the version that should have been in the box on day 1.

Screw us over if you must, but don't lie to us at the same time as it just insults our intelligence.

esd · Post by **esd** » Mon, 12. Dec 05, 19:48

Screw us over if you must, but don't lie to us at the same time as it just insults our intelligence

At no point did I lie

Just like you, I'm speculating.

Post by **Cycrow** » Mon, 12. Dec 05, 19:50

what makes u think the version sent out by enlight was the only version of the manual that egosoft made ?
u seem to think thier lieing that they have a more recent copy even thou i know for a fact that they do as deepsilver sent out the correct manual to everyone in europe so how can u possibly say it doesn't exist and egosoft are lieing ?

the manual we got was definatly not perfect but it is the one that egosoft wanted to be distributed, the one enlight sent out was not the one egosoft wanted

egosoft want to make improvments on the current manual so it is better, y is that so hard for u to understand ?

AgtSmith · Post by **AgtSmith** » Mon, 12. Dec 05, 20:03

A) They have said the wrong version got sent to press so by thier own admission they did not give us the correct manual.

B) If this where true and a correct version existed and the wrong version was printed accidentally then it would take all of about 5 minutes to post the correct one.

C) Since they haven't posted the 'correct' one it is clear that there is no 'correct' one and the one included is just a bad or rushed (or both) version and they are now making up this crap about improving it to by time while they do who knows what.

A+B+C = They are lying through thier teeth claimng the worng manual got sent for publishing and they are taking this oppourtunity to make some magic new and improved manual. As for calling anyone I liar, I was referring to the developer/publisher but anyone who repeats such obvious idiocy is propogating a lie nonetheless.

Let's consider a real life example of this situation as they want us to believe. John has a report due on Friday but come Friday his boss reviews what John gave him and explains to him that it was not the report he was supposed to turn in as it contains many errors and falacies. John explains to his boss that it was simply a mistake and he turned in the wrong report. The boss says no problem and asks John for the correct report but when John tells his boss he cannot give him the correct one his boss gets angry. John's boss explains to John that if, in fact, it was simply an error in turning in the wrong report that he should have no problem producing the correct report in a matter of minutes. When John explains to his boss that he isn't going to produce the correct report, even though it is done and was done on time, because he wants to make it better and improved John's boss explains to him the company policy on termination as John's boss is not an idiot.

Post by **Cycrow** » Mon, 12. Dec 05, 20:13

what you fail to notice is that the post is only concering the US manual, which was the wrong version

the EU manual was the right manual, so if egosoft never even created this manual as you say, how could everyone with the deepsilver version have it ?

the manual that they are releasing as a PDF is a new one that they are working on to improve it and most likly add stuff in that wil lbe added via the new patches

Post by **BlackRain** » Mon, 12. Dec 05, 20:22

Hey Agtsmith, I thought I saw in another post that you were getting rid of your copy of x3 or not playing anymore? So why don't you shutup and go do something constructive? No one will miss you when you are gone.

And on another note, Who the hell reads the manual anyway? I really think you guys are just finding anything at all you can possibly complain about just to see your post of you whining. I have over a hundred PC games of which maybe one or two I have looked at the manual for a couple of minutes for a particular thing I might have needed to know, other then that, my manuals get thrown out. The only people who might need the manual are new players, and even still you can figure everything out pretty easily. Those of you who already know how to play and are complaining about the manual, why? You know how to play the game. Don't give me the excuse because you paid for it, so what? You most likely weren't going to use it anyway, and if by some chance you NEED to know something, just ask and someone will tell you promptly (This goes for people who already know how to play)

Now if you do not know how to play, most of the things you need to know ARE in the manual. Yeah there are inconsistencies but really nothing that is going to effect you too much, other then things not being in the game that are mentioned. I have a US copy too, I am looking at it right now, enlight is the one responsible for the manual and everything you NEED to know to learn how to do most, if not all of the stuff, is in there.

NarcissusG · Post by **NarcissusG** » Mon, 12. Dec 05, 20:43

Everyone needs to calm down.

If Enlight sent the wrong manual, so be it. Yet to all the EU manual owners ... you don't have the correct version either, by EgoSoft's own admission. They don't have a completed manual for anyone because they released the game before it was finished and didn't have a chance to re-write the manual to show that.

Personally, I don't want a .pdf file. I want an informative manual in my hands that I can read and study without having to shut my game off (when I'm able to play it, that is.

).

Regardless, I think that EgoSoft should put a .pdf of the EU manual for the US members to use until they finish the new, revised manual.

@ AgtSmith - Really, you are going about this the wrong way. I'm as unhappy as you are about the whole situation, yet losing our temper does nothing but make us look bad. Relax, calm down and try and state your points rather than vehemently slam them in everyone's face.

@ BlackRain - Regardless of what AgtSmith said he would or would not do gives you no right to be condescending to him. Try and remember that he is upset and angry as he paid for a game and hasn't received anything satisfactory (including the manual) from it.

There are two sides to the debates on this forum ... I try to be understanding of the satisfied customers as much as I can, and several of them have been understanding to me in return.

There are bound to be moments where things will get out of hand, and there are bound to be comments that are made that anger each other ... attempting to meet in the middle or agreeing to disagree might be the best option. Noone is perfect and noone can always keep their anger and/or frustration from coming out, but maybe we should all try.

Just a suggestion,

Narcissus

Post by **BlackRain** » Mon, 12. Dec 05, 22:01

I could care less whether or not he is satisfied, it has nothing to do with being satisfied, it has to do with the fact that he is annoying me. It has nothing to do with this game, people like him in general annoy me. If you want to call it condescending, go ahead, but I am being sarcastic, I would have said something much nastier but I don't want to break the rules of the forum and it isn't meant to be condescending more then it is meant to be insulting hahaha. If he was someone I knew personally, he would have gotten it much worse, I have no patience for people who annoy me. He already said he wasn't going to play the game anymore so why continue to post about petty things such as the manual isn't good enough for him. He doesn't like the game period, and has expressed as such a million times already as have you.

While I see nothing wrong with constructive criticism, and I have seen many of your posts Narcissus which I do not feel have been annoying or overly aggressive and as such have not commented on you before. Although I do not agree with you on many points. Also, I still stand with my comment on who cares about the manual? It is a freaking manual! You already know how to play so who cares if the manual isn't correct? (I am talking to you Narcissus on this question, no one else)

Rowgue · Post by **Rowgue** » Mon, 12. Dec 05, 22:37

Ok great you don't like manuals and you've played other games in the series before so you already know how to play. I fail to see how that helps the people that haven't and need the manual or some other option like a proper tutorial to even get started.

I often never look at a game manual as well, except to look up something I encounter later that is not readily apparent. And overall I have little use for most manuals. But this game is not one that is so intuitive that the manual becomes minimally relevant. The user interface is really confusing, and the one thing that I always use in just about every manual is the keymap page which in it's current form is utterly wrong. This is not the game to make the argument for manuals not being neccessary I'm afraid.

Post by **CBJ** » Mon, 12. Dec 05, 22:43

Could people please not get personal here. If you really must have a one-to-one debate then do it by PM.

ChuckB · Post by **ChuckB** » Mon, 12. Dec 05, 22:59

BlackRain wrote:Also, I still stand with my comment on who cares about the manual? It is a freaking manual! You already know how to play so who cares if the manual isn't correct? (I am talking to you Narcissus on this question, no one else)

Me.
I care about the manual. If you don't, that's fine, but this thread is apparently directed at people who care about the manual and it seems that you don't belong to this group.
I therefore don't find your input very helpful for this thread.

Fact is that the manual is not usable and this apparently bothers people who would like to have (and paid) for a usable manual. If you can settle for less, great, but please let us others demand something that is important for us.

Chuck

Post by **BlackRain** » Mon, 12. Dec 05, 23:18

Hey maybe you should both learn to read ChuckB and Rowgue. For one I clearly said if you were new to the series then I could understand why you might need the manual but you can get any info you need from the forums, have you bothered to try? Or do you only see what is right in front of you without any effort to look elsewhere? To you Chuck, that particular phrase was to Narcissus, not to you so please refrain from a question obviously that does not apply to you. KTHX NOOB

I didn't post to be helpful here, in case you didn't figure that out. Yeah, let me settle for less then a 2 dollar manual which you don't even need. Which by the way they SAID they are going to give as a PDF file, so what are you complaining about? You will get your complete manual. If that isn't good enough for you, I guess that is just too bad because that is all your gonna get. No use crying over spilt milk as the saying goes, and by the way that saying is ancient, I wonder if people had the same idea back then as I do now? Apparently some people never learn their lesson.

Post by **CBJ** » Mon, 12. Dec 05, 23:19

I said stop getting personal. You will not be warned again.

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

Manual for US version of X³: Reunion