POLL: Should Egosoft make X4 VR compatible?

[pittlebelge]

Just as a bit of context, I just finished a playthrough of Cyberpunk with Ross's VR mod playing with keyboard and mouse in VR. When it comes to X4, I tried the VR hack with virtual desktop and otherwise I got a HOTAS and keyboard to play on flatscreen and also played a bit on the Steamdeck.

I'd love to see X4 in VR, but I understand that the cost for all the VR functionality would be too great.

I want to point out 2 issues and how they might be solved or how they might evolve in the future. The first is the input side of things. Hand tracking VR controllers are cool, but I can't imagine that they are easy to work with from the dev side of things, button presses are better. Not only that, but if you look at the bestiary of these controllers, it's just endless layers of complications: some have trackpads, some detect finger movements, the buttons are not always the same, and so forth. X4 requires a lot of inputs, and having a solution that just work out of the box for all of them seems like a very costly headache. Here, the only realistic option would be to focus on classic gamepads. Their configuration is more standardized, no hand gesture to handle and most of the work is already done for the steamdeck and simply people who prefer to play with gamepad. If there is ever going to be another X series game in VR, advertising it as "VR with gamepad" is the better option IMO (plus I can't wave my arms around for 8h).

On the other hand, I don't think that most headsets are good enough for a game like X4 yet, but I might be wrong. I suspect that the pixel density of most headsets would be too low to really enjoy the scales and distances of X4. I mostly play flight sims in VR and there is basically an even nicher market of headsets just for that sort of application that is slowly separating from the more mainstream Meta Quest (Pimax Crystal Light for the curious). Basically, seeing little things in the distance is not easy, and most VR games out there put everything right in your face to compensate for the headsets limitations. But as times passes, the headsets keep getting better on average and who knows what will be there in a few years.

I'd also like to say that there are more and more mods for flatscreen games to port them in VR, as I said I just finished Cyberpunk in VR and it was a blast. If seated VR with a gamepad is seen as a valid option by the community, then it would lower the cost of adapting X4 or whatever next X games will be. But, having seen other games struggle, I must point out that there is a lot of work that goes with VR, the inputs, the UI, and an endless stream of little graphical glitches that come from cool little effects that look great in 2D but break down in 3D.

With all that being said, if there was the most barebone, basic, unoptimized implementation of VR for X4, headset only, even as just a console command, I'd be a happy man.

[Hackod]

The number of concurrent players for X: Rebirth VR was only 91 because it's X: Rebirth, not X4: Foundations.

Of course, I agree. In X4 would be like ca. 300-400, imho. I just presented numbers which seem to me being consistent with sale volumes, numbers of players interested in X-serie games, and Egosoft stance on the matter. You're free to belive in your wishfull thinking or rather your interpretation of data and reality, and the alledged power your voice have in a public space. As a VR user, you have my fingers crossed and my hope you're gonna succeed. Good luck!

You didn't fully understand me. Considering the model we’re proposing (just copying WarThunder's solution, where the VR controller can only operate the mouse cursor, which is easier to handle with a regular mouse), it wouldn’t result in only 300–400 players, but rather +300–400 players added to the current online player base. Perhaps more, perhaps less. The point is that it would expand the online community of the existing game.

[jlehtone]

Assuming you have VR and do play X4, then addition of "VR support" would not add you to community. You would simply switch to use the VR when you play X4.

It is very hard to estimate the number of potential players that have VR kit but do not play X4 because it has no VR, and hence do not belong to the "community" yet.

[NightIntruder]

Considering the model we’re proposing (just copying WarThunder's solution, where the VR controller can only operate the mouse cursor, which is easier to handle with a regular mouse),

So your solution is only for players having both VR and some another analog controller, as mouse controller will be hijacked leaving those who control their ships with mouse with no option? I don't know where you got the idea that this basic VR implementation would be as easy as it was in WT. These are two completely different game engines, two completely different development teams focused on different nature of these two games. Doing something is absolutely easy for someone who doesn't have to actually do it But, hey, if it's so easy, why don't you look into the game engine code and do it by yourself?

it wouldn’t result in only 300–400 players, but rather +300–400 players added to the current online player base. Perhaps more, perhaps less.

As said above, IMHO it would be even less VR players than I calculated since there's significantly less players having both VR and HOTAS/joysticks than those having only VR headset. Valve's blog post on Steam about usage of controllers supports my statement (only 15% players use controllers, ca.75% of those are gamepads). Believing in 100% or more of increase of VR players in X4 is just wishful thinking that is not supported by any data.

[jlehtone]

Considering the model we’re proposing (just copying WarThunder's solution, where the VR controller can only operate the mouse cursor, which is easier to handle with a regular mouse),

So your solution is only for players having both VR and some another analog controller, as mouse controller will be hijacked leaving those who control their ships with mouse with no option?

I'd guess the "VR controller operates the mouse cursor" means that both VR controller and mouse give "mouse inputs", so you could use either device to move the cursor. The Saitek X52's throttle had a little stick for thumb that did act as a mouse, but that did not prevent the use of "real" mouse. Likewise, laptops do have touchpad, but can simultaneously use external mouse. So no hijacks.

[vvvvvvvv]

So your solution is only for players having both VR and some another ...

It is fairly standard for sim games. VR racers usually do not support motion controls, so you'll be driving with wheel, gamepad, or mouse keyboard.

There's no reason for mouse not to work in VR, by the way. It works in elite dangerous. Basically flat UI will be on projected surface floating in front of you, and mouse will be moving cursor confined to that surface. X4 already paints UI on a 3d plane, so this is handled.

It's funny. You still see people asking for co-op (not true multiplayer) just so me and my friend(s) can play together.

Coop is much harder to implement even in limited form. It is not a similar situation.

The issue here is that all arguments are just opinions. Like there's a data showing "it is not worth it", there will be data showing the opposite. So there will be no conclusion, and people will keep arguing forever. I find it amusing, however, when people try to shut down feature requests.

I revisited satisfactory forums a while ago, there was an interesting thread. Someone said "Devs said no! They repeated many times, there will be no drones and no flying vehicles!"... 4 years later final version of the game features jetpack, and flying drones. Which was supposed to never happen, according to that one poster at least. Which is why people keep asking.

[NightIntruder]

You guys are free to convince Egosoft staff, on your own from now on I'm done with this discussion not because it's not interesting, but because I have lost my interest in it as seeing it not relevant to me anymore. My attempt to test X4 in VR solution from Steam ended badly a week ago - no VR working, Windows not rebooting, looped in memtest at boot level. I'm using my backup laptop now. Today I used the last known to me solution to fix the problem via software steps. I won't even be interested in gaming & modding in general till I fix my computer or buy one, if neccessary. But first and foremost, I don't believe this and any further discussions about VR gonna change Egosoft stance on the matter in the foresable future. But I will keep my fingers crossed for ya'll lads, just in case Satisfactory's dev team is a role model for Egosoft in player base management and a game development

[vvvvvvvv]

no VR working, Windows not rebooting, looped in memtest at boot level.

That smells like a hardware failure. One thing you could try... go into bios, see if your memory has XMP profile enabled, and disable it.

Good luck though. Those sudden problems are never fun to solve.

[Rambus]

Just found this post.

BIG YES TO VR. Even without VR controller support and just use a k+m. Like all it is viewport change and change to menus I think.

Rebirth VR came out early days of VR and shouldnt be sole used as reason for devs not to work on VR support or any other modders.

[Ergoswot]

Just found this post.

BIG YES TO VR. Even without VR controller support and just use a k+m. Like all it is viewport change and change to menus I think.

Rebirth VR came out early days of VR and shouldnt be sole used as reason for devs not to work on VR support or any other modders.

Yeah, I agree. Most of the people saying no to VR are people who do not own VR headsets therefore do not understand what a huge difference to immersion it makes.

We don't need Egosoft to implement dedicated VR functionality and controls into X4 like Rebirth... we just need a usable VR cockpit and first-person mode.

[StoneLegionYT]

My answer is simply probably no from the fact that I know that they broke even if that with the last VR project they did. I'm not sure if they can bring in more people or less people this time around especially. At that time a lot more people were talking or at least more interested in VR putting all the effort into it now would probably cost a lot of money and would not show many gains if anything.

That being said I'm pretty sure some of the major rework with the rendering engine and things like that were big parts thanks to VR so I don't want to insult VR because I think we are helped overall with the current engine. But I just don't see it being something that they would make a decent amount of money on.

No I'm no programmer and I have no clue how the models and everything are made right now. But if they're able to add VR into it without tweaking things like for example they can make it so you can wear the goggles and you move your head around the cockpit and that's pretty much it but it would work and it wouldn't be overly stupid then go for it let them do that you know maybe just always say it's an experimental feature that might not be developed any further and just allow people with VR sets that just get a little bit more of a upper hand. But that would be only if the current engine and models and everything else support it. I don't want them to have to go in and get everything from the ground up to make it compatible like they had to do before.

[Deki_279]

The developers have already given an answer and I have no hope for changes. We can only count on enthusiasts like LukeRoss, who made a working full VR mod for Cyberpunk 2077, but I doubt that such a request has ever been received by him. I am ready to pay three or four times more to enthusiasts for the opportunity to play in VR if the developer does not need my money.

[vvvvvvvv]

The developers have already given an answer and I have no hope for changes. We can only count

Two years ago, I asked why L miners have insane ship capacity and can store 40 S ships, and shouldn't be this fixed.

At the time I received a response, that fixing that would be too risky due to many reasons, and shouln't be done. "Save compatibility" also was brought up.

This change has been implemented in 7.50 as part of ship rebalance.

So I've learned my lesson. Developer decisions aren't set in stone, are subject to change, hence I'll be asking for the feature until it is implemented, thank you very much.

[Raptor34]

I'll also keep saying no until people who wants VR actually coughs up the development money.
Either that or the tech advances enough that creating a VR edition becomes relatively cheap and easy.

[Wilds]

I sure hope basic 3d projection support is added one day. Rebirth VR looks amazing and motion controller support isn't necessary.

[MarStrMind]

Using a combo of ReShade (SuperDepth3D shader), OpenTrack and VirtualDesktop, you can already achieve a mostly enjoyable VR experience, provided you can render the normal game at 1440p or higher.

If you are interested in spending a bit of time, you can play it like that... however the normal VR controllers won't work so you will need to continue to use your keyboard and mouse. If you have a HOTAS, you can of course use that too. Only downside is that this combo does not work on foot as on foot does not support head tracking.

This is probably the best VR experience possible at this time. I have done it, and it is enjoyable (provided it is set up correctly).

[vvvvvvvv]

that creating a VR edition becomes relatively cheap and easy.

There was a very long and detailed discussion of that on previous pages. Situation now is very different from XR VR time.

Obviously people just ignore all that.

[Deki_279]

Using a combo of ReShade (SuperDepth3D shader), OpenTrack and VirtualDesktop, you can already achieve a mostly enjoyable VR experience, provided you can render the normal game at 1440p or higher.

This is not a VR experience, it is just a stereoscopic effect on a flat screen. There is no VR "effect" or immersion there.

[Deki_279]

Maybe someone more proactive than me will try to negotiate with modders like Luke Ross and order the development of a VR mod for X4. Perhaps the VR community can raise money for this?
If this does not contradict the license agreement with Egosoft

[MarStrMind]

Using a combo of ReShade (SuperDepth3D shader), OpenTrack and VirtualDesktop, you can already achieve a mostly enjoyable VR experience, provided you can render the normal game at 1440p or higher.

This is not a VR experience, it is just a stereoscopic effect on a flat screen. There is no VR "effect" or immersion there.

Try it. I played it like that and it is more immersive than you think.