Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

[Cycrow]

I think there is some kind of overflow bug with the lower ranks (not sure if it is because of 1.1 RC3 or not as i haven't done missions yet with 1.0).
I was at -5 with Boron, Paranid and Split and did a mission for each (scan asteroids in every case, not sure if it matters) and after that I'm +8 or +9 with them, with their enemies not really affected.
Leading to this:

was you rank -5 in all of them, and do you know what percentage it was?

its normal for not effecting the other ranks, as theres a minimum cuttoff, which allows you to gain some notoriety if you are really low, without effecting the other races. But you shouldn't be getting large amounts from a single mission

EDIT: i just did a quick check and it seems to be working fine for me. Its possible that the mission was generated before you applied the patch, so it was still using the values from RC1 or Before. New missions generally after RC2/RC3 should have a reduced amount of notoriety when at low ranks

[gammacee]

Hi folks, I am going to add my name to the list of those who want changes made to dynamic relations.

The idea is great, I like it that I don't get to be friends with everyone. However, there are some bugs in the implementation which mean I have to spend more of my game time 'managing the harm' than anything else. Which frankly sucks.
At the moment, I am an enemy to Paranid and Split, which means I can't trade, pass through their sectors and are randomly attacked by their ships. I got here because I did some asteroid scans for the Boron whilst exploring.
I have used up three agents trying to get my split rep back up to 'not a target' but realise now it is futile. One asteroid scan mission for the Boron wipes out several weeks of diplomatic effort...

I just want to explore...

Suggestion: For non-combat missions, limit reputation harm to a boundary of zero. i.e. you can lose all friendly rep for trading, taxiing, station-building or scanning for an enemy, but don't get any negative rep. This would seem simple and allow us pacifists to carry on being harmless.

[birdtable]

Much prefer a known enemy than a spawned one.. on the flipside your diplomatic agents are equally over powerful. Sometimes it is good fun trying to get your agent to a location.. I for one do not want to be friends with everyone, makes for bland gameplay.... Over spawning is a different issue and should be looked at because there is no true tactic/strategy.

[Thurak]

on the flipside your diplomatic agents are equally over powerful.

oh yeah, 6 tasks later (5 for 1000 influence, 1 for using it) you are from enemy of the Duke to decent friend of the Duke. Why the **** would anyone ignore all the ships you shot down simply because one dude was on a diplomatic mission for a while? But right now leave them too overpowered, imo. As long as the losses are (too) significant and unpredicateble I can very well live with my godlike agents. But later on a nerf for the rep gain mission would probably be a good idea.

[RegisterMe]

@Cycrow - I've a feeling something isn't quite right. I started a new 1.10 RC 3 (439801) (EN) game with the zeroed globals.txt this morning and so far have:-

Killed a couple of pirates (not a mission)
Killed a handful of Dukes (not a mission)
Sold 1000 e-cells in Paranid space
Bought some software
Bought three advanced satellites

I've seen two rep drops (percentages reported on pilot status page) for the Argon and Boron. iirc they occurred on the purchase of the s/w at the Paranid Equipment Dock in Duke's Citadel, and the sale of the 1000 e-cells.

[Stars_InTheirEyes]

After the 1.1 update I used diplomacy to increase my Split rep from enemy of Rhonkar to something far in the green, but loads of Split ships are still hostile to me, including weapons platforms. I've tried doing the 'transmit to all reachable properties' command, nothing. I've toggled off the "set enemy if enemy to me" setting and that turns them all blue but I still get shot at so they clearly still see me as an enemy and I don't know why. I can dock, buy ships and stuff without issue but about 1/3 of the traffic in any split sector is hostile.

[chip56]

After the 1.1 update I used diplomacy to increase my Split rep from enemy of Rhonkar to something far in the green, but loads of Split ships are still hostile to me, including weapons platforms. I've tried doing the 'transmit to all reachable properties' command, nothing. I've toggled off the "set enemy if enemy to me" setting and that turns them all blue but I still get shot at so they clearly still see me as an enemy and I don't know why. I can dock, buy ships and stuff without issue but about 1/3 of the traffic in any split sector is hostile.

Thas because each ship has their individual setting of hostility on Top of the faction settings. Thats why you can attack single freighters somewhere and they fire back without every other ship of the faction in the universe attacking you.
The problem however is that once a ship/station gets hostile it happens quite often (but not allows) that those ships/stations dont drop their hostility upon increasing your reputation without comming them or hackign them.
Which would be in regular X3 a mostly minor issue since you probably either go positive rep with a faction or decide for full out war with them anyway. Due to the dynamic rep however you are far more likly to get into negative rep in FL and make possibly make a recovery in reputation. And now its going to be pretty annyoing when you still have 5% of the ships hostile and you would need to com each one and hope they accept...

Maybe there could be a check every 30 minutes or so where it checks if your reputation is over +3 or whatever and then remove all hostilities from all ships/stations of that faction. If its happening with big enough intervals it would most likly not be too abusable

[Stars_InTheirEyes]

After the 1.1 update I used diplomacy to increase my Split rep from enemy of Rhonkar to something far in the green, but loads of Split ships are still hostile to me, including weapons platforms. I've tried doing the 'transmit to all reachable properties' command, nothing. I've toggled off the "set enemy if enemy to me" setting and that turns them all blue but I still get shot at so they clearly still see me as an enemy and I don't know why. I can dock, buy ships and stuff without issue but about 1/3 of the traffic in any split sector is hostile.

Thas because each ship has their individual setting of hostility on Top of the faction settings. Thats why you can attack single freighters somewhere and they fire back without every other ship of the faction in the universe attacking you.
The problem however is that once a ship/station gets hostile it happens quite often (but not allows) that those ships/stations dont drop their hostility upon increasing your reputation without comming them or hackign them.
Which would be in regular X3 a mostly minor issue since you probably either go positive rep with a faction or decide for full out war with them anyway. Due to the dynamic rep however you are far more likly to get into negative rep in FL and make possibly make a recovery in reputation. And now its going to be pretty annyoing when you still have 5% of the ships hostile and you would need to com each one and hope they accept...

Maybe there could be a check every 30 minutes or so where it checks if your reputation is over +3 or whatever and then remove all hostilities from all ships/stations of that faction. If its happening with big enough intervals it would most likly not be too abusable

That seems like a huge problem? And completely works against the idea of dynamic relations, because well, that isn't very dynamic.

[Clantron]

I love X3 very much and played it for years and years. I even have multiple copies (physical + steam versions). Was really excited to see X3FL and really enjoy most of the features that were added, with one single exception. Dynamic race relations are almost making me quit.

I did an agent job to fix my OTAS rep. It went from -3 to +5.
It resulted in Terran/ATF going from +5 to -3.
Split went from +2 or 3 to -3.
Paranid remained at +7 surprisingly.
I also believe Terracorps went from -3 to -4. (unsure on this one)

These impacts from a single Agent mission to a corporation is just way too extreme. I've been very careful about keeping the main races happy-ish. Boron/Argon +5, Teladi +4, Split +3, Paranid +7. Now I need to figure out what to do with the Terrans/ATF which were also at +5. I'm worried sending an agent there will result in -3 with all other races
In a game that is known to be modded like crazy, I really wish we had some sort of setting to adjust the dynamic relation system's severity.

[edit hours later]
ok, now that I've gotten over my initial frustration. I think my best option is to simply use a mod or edit the files to 'fix' it for myself. I saw some things in the forum here that could help me. It's just unfortunate my save file will be *modified* and without achievements

[zamiel]

Ok, I just don't think this thing is supposed to work this way.

After buying (a bugged) M7D from the Yaki, I tried to lower my relations, so I can max out someone else. So I went to Ocrakoke's Storm, to shoot up a few ships.
I expected my Yaki relations to go down and my relations improving with every other race (as they are their enemies).
Instead I lost reputation with the Yaki, and their enemies as well. Now everyone is in the red again from 3-4 greens. Why?

I take a break from this game now until this is fixed. My game now is about constantly having to redeploy my killed sattelites and spend an hour on comming random red enemies even after fixing my reputation for doing a split taxi mission or selling 3 BoFus to a boron.

[chip56]

From what i have seen: You get the rep loss upon gaining rep with a faction in some way.
However killing someone on their own turf does not gain you any rep with anyone.
This is why killing pirates in PAR space leads to a different result as killing them in BOR space or in a Pirate sector. In the first case you defend PAR so they are happy and it triggers all the dynamic rep for their friends and enemies. In the second case its for Boron. And in the last case: well you just managed to make the pirates hostile without any gain...

[Hexadecimal]

Playing some more (now around 70hrs) I'm finding the system to be fine for the most part...

But...

Every now and again something weird happens...

I will suddenly jump up several ranks with argon and then a few hours later be 1 rank negative again.

Same with corporations, suddenly went positive with dukes for no discernable reason - intact I actively kill their ships...

Otherwise my main reputation that I want positive have been non moving.

I'm not saying that it's too sensitive because for the most part it hasn't been (as stated, my main reps have been non moving) it's just the occasional outlier like that argon rep.

[Cycrow]

There's always going to be large rank changes when you are neutral, as there are so few points between the neutral ranks that you can jump 4 ranks with only a few points.

Once you start getting around rank 6 and 7 the drops will be much less noticeable

[fireanddream]

Well, right now we loose paranid rep for killing Xenons in Argon space. How bout that?

Hi Klord, OP here, I've come back to game and played a few hours of the updated 1.1 version tonight.

The main races are largely manageable now, I think, as long as they stay rank 4 or upward, the rep swing from missions won't hit as hard as before.

I find it even more hilarious how "maintaining a neutral relation with everyone" is MUCH harder than just befriending everyone, because at lower rank the rep swing is crazy. The reps cannot be "stable" until they are rank 4 or above. For a stress-free playthrough, befriend everyone!

And the corps, I think I'm just going to blacklist everyone except MMMC now. It simply is not worth the hassle. More micromanagement. It is just really funny how every screenshot people posted has them in the red with like at least 4 corps.

Dipping into the red occasionally leads to even more micromanagement. Destroyed satellite to replace, red laser towers, and worst of all, I found that a hacked station won't stay hacked if it has a red laser tower. A ship I sent to dock at the station OOS stopped midway as the station turned back to being hostile.

Have you been playing? Do you have any tips? I think I'm putting down version 1.1 too.

[blazenclaw]

Have you been playing? Do you have any tips? I think I'm putting down version 1.1 too.

I'm actually having a lot of fun playing the Lost TerraCorp pilot start; I calculated that it's stable to have every faction friendly except [Paranid - Split - Yaki - OTAS - Strong Arms], so I'm building up a base in the Oceans of Fantasy sectors, increasing rep with primarily Atreus/Boron/Argon. Once I get sufficient income for a TL I'll be breaking out of the Split "barricade" to find the HQ so that I can get Agents, and work on increasing rep with other factions in a stable manner.

I think part of the issue might be in the earlygame when the player's rep is small (less than 4, as you said) and the player can't as easily jump across the map to do missions for different factions, which leads to much of the flip-flopping. By keeping the earlygame limited to a smaller set of sectors, I've found a fair bit more enjoyment by not having to worry about potentially flipping an ally. Of course, people's mileage might vary; I got lucky and got a M3 to bail in the first 30 min from my spacesuit

[izolight]

I think there is some kind of overflow bug with the lower ranks (not sure if it is because of 1.1 RC3 or not as i haven't done missions yet with 1.0).
I was at -5 with Boron, Paranid and Split and did a mission for each (scan asteroids in every case, not sure if it matters) and after that I'm +8 or +9 with them, with their enemies not really affected.
Leading to this:

was you rank -5 in all of them, and do you know what percentage it was?

its normal for not effecting the other ranks, as theres a minimum cuttoff, which allows you to gain some notoriety if you are really low, without effecting the other races. But you shouldn't be getting large amounts from a single mission

EDIT: i just did a quick check and it seems to be working fine for me. Its possible that the mission was generated before you applied the patch, so it was still using the values from RC1 or Before. New missions generally after RC2/RC3 should have a reduced amount of notoriety when at low ranks

This just happened again on a save started with 1.1 (release version)
went 96% -5 with paranids (enemy of priest duke) to +9 (Paranid emperors protectorate) with a single mission (this time covert ops, so it doesn't seem to be tied to the mission type).