Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

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Dupin
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by Dupin »

Boringnick wrote: Sun, 30. Jun 19, 23:21 I know, it has been said more than enough times already, but, damn.

X3:

https://www.egosoft.com/games/x3/screen ... en_266.jpg

https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/a ... 1512657152

https://live.staticflickr.com/8473/8437 ... ae64_b.jpg

X4:

https://www.pcgames.de/screenshots/orig ... rtwork.jpg

https://www.egosoft.com/games/x4/screen ... en_013.jpg

https://static.fore.4pcdn.de/premium/Sp ... easer1.jpg

JUST WHY?


{Images posted directly to the forums should not be greater than 640x480 or 100kb, oversize image now linked - Terre}
:lol: Dude, you are just using screenshots from alpha of X4! In the game shaders and textures much better than this. Indeed, are you realy don't see big difference between qualty of X3 and X4? It's very-very strange...
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mr.WHO
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by mr.WHO »

I can say many bad things about X4, but can you honestly say their models are bad (except Minotaur - that thing is flying atrocity)?
I can't get enough looking at my centaur on the landing pad - it feels tiny in space, yet on the platform it's huge:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1793045633
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1793045672
Techedge
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by Techedge »

mr.WHO wrote: Fri, 5. Jul 19, 20:53 I can say many bad things about X4, but can you honestly say their models are bad (except Minotaur - that thing is flying atrocity)?
I can't get enough looking at my centaur on the landing pad - it feels tiny in space, yet on the platform it's huge:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1793045633
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1793045672
This one really cuts the discussion. Beautiful it's not enough.
BTW I've found myself hanging around many times just to look at the models and their landing and takeoff.
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by sh1pman »

radcapricorn wrote: Thu, 4. Jul 19, 01:14
[*]Mini-plots. These became more of a thing with TC and AP, and they were awesome. X4 has one, and it's horrible. War and guild missions aren't even plots at all, just random non-sensical missions.
Yeah, about these war “missions”. Example: HOP vs ARG, got a mission to deploy a satellite network in Second Contact II. (Do they even use satellite data in war scripts?) Anyway, then I got another mission to deploy a satellite network in the same spot, on top of the first one. Then a third one. Fun! Then there’s a mission in ARG vs Xenon where you have to scan Xenon ships and find the one the carries Spaceweed. For reasons. With no indication of where to look. How is it supposed to aid Argon in their war, again?

And then there’s station construction missions. They (a faction) want me to buy a plot, place some modules, hire a builder, place buy orders for the resources, and in the end I get refunded several times more money than I spent. So... why do they need ME to do it? Building a station in their own territory, with their builder, using mostly their own resources. They’re perfectly capable of doing all of that themselves!

The “missions” aren’t bugged, they’re just a fricking MESS. IMO, there’s no “fixing bugs” with them, they need to be removed and rebuilt from scratch with some thought put behind it.
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Tamina
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by Tamina »

*Edit: just noticed (I am on my phone) this is the wrong thread for this.
sh1pman wrote: Sat, 6. Jul 19, 12:53 And then there’s station construction missions. They (a faction) want me to buy a plot, place some modules, hire a builder, place buy orders for the resources, and in the end I get refunded several times more money than I spent. So... why do they need ME to do it? Building a station in their own territory, with their builder, using mostly their own resources. They’re perfectly capable of doing all of that themselves!
I agree with the first and last part but not with this one.
First of all "someone has to do it", if it is not you, it is some other guy that gets payed for planning and managing the build. Your government also hires other companies to build public places, bridges and what not. Granted, this is not the case in X4, but this is supposed to be a game. This is like questioning why the player drives a racing car in a racing game, when the AI is perfectly capable of doing it on their own.

This perfectly depicts reality IMO :) Including you (the manager) gets paid multiple times the effort (millions) exploiting government funds; buying resources very cheap and exploiting underpaid employees in the real value-adding processes.

The only thing missing from reality is that it takes you way longer to finish the project then you got from the government (mission timer) but face no real consequences when doing so and then leaving the project unfinished with a multi million severance pay.
Meanwhile the Argons have to pay multiple times more then the original fund in order to finish it at all, and stopping the already begun project is no alternative anymore.
@Egosoft please fix ASAP

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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by radcapricorn »

sh1pman wrote: Sat, 6. Jul 19, 12:53 Then there’s a mission in ARG vs Xenon where you have to scan Xenon ships and find the one the carries Spaceweed...
I think they just ask to scan "a ship", not "Xenon ships". Or did it specifically tell you to look for high Ls? Not that it makes sense either way.
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by sh1pman »

radcapricorn wrote: Sat, 6. Jul 19, 13:43
sh1pman wrote: Sat, 6. Jul 19, 12:53 Then there’s a mission in ARG vs Xenon where you have to scan Xenon ships and find the one the carries Spaceweed...
I think they just ask to scan "a ship", not "Xenon ships". Or did it specifically tell you to look for high Ls? Not that it makes sense either way.
It was in Arg vs Xen questline and asked specifically to find a Xenon ship with spaceweed somewhere in the galaxy. I wasn’t able to find one.
Tamina wrote: Sat, 6. Jul 19, 13:37 *Edit: just noticed (I am on my phone) this is the wrong thread for this.
sh1pman wrote: Sat, 6. Jul 19, 12:53 And then there’s station construction missions. They (a faction) want me to buy a plot, place some modules, hire a builder, place buy orders for the resources, and in the end I get refunded several times more money than I spent. So... why do they need ME to do it? Building a station in their own territory, with their builder, using mostly their own resources. They’re perfectly capable of doing all of that themselves!
I agree with the first and last part but not with this one.
First of all "someone has to do it", if it is not you, it is some other guy that gets payed for planning and managing the build. Your government also hires other companies to build public places, bridges and what not. Granted, this is not the case in X4, but this is supposed to be a game. This is like questioning why the player drives a racing car in a racing game, when the AI is perfectly capable of doing it on their own.

This perfectly depicts reality IMO :) Including you (the manager) gets paid multiple times the effort (millions) exploiting government funds; buying resources very cheap and exploiting underpaid employees in the real value-adding processes.

The only thing missing from reality is that it takes you way longer to finish the project then you got from the government (mission timer) but face no real consequences when doing so and then leaving the project unfinished with a multi million severance pay.
Meanwhile the Argons have to pay multiple times more then the original fund in order to finish it at all, and stopping the already begun project is no alternative anymore.
@Egosoft please fix ASAP
It would make sense if these missions were a bit more involved than just building a station. It takes 1-2 minutes of “work” - placing modules - and rewards you with millions of cash. Benefit to cost ratio is through the roof for such a basic task. It should either pay an average cost of modules + a small 5-10% bonus, or have some additional non-trivial requirements.
P.S. sorry about the wrong thread.
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by Skeeter »

The thing about x games and its ships is that the designs can look really different between games which i dunno if i like. I mean why not have some consistency from game to game since its the same race same universe just a different time. Can they not evolve existing ships like new models of designs where they improve them but not totally replace them. Kinda like how federation ships progressed from series to series the connie up to the sov.
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spankahontis
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by spankahontis »

radcapricorn wrote: Thu, 4. Jul 19, 01:14
As for not appreciating something due to "lack of understanding of the code", that's simply a non-argument. Customers don't give a flying duck about how clever, complicated, or tricky your code is. They care about results, about your product working as it's supposed to. Sadly, some developers mistake that for a waiver to write crappy code, but that's another matter entirely. You should know this, so I don't understand where that remark even came from.
The "problem" now is not that the war "just needs to be fixed". That is not a problem, that is a fact. The problem is that it still needs to be fixed. It needed to be fixed before release, or removed altogether until a later update. Neither was done.
That you rely on mods to fix one of the core game components is only indicative of how poorly it was approached in the first place.

I gave Rebirth my full support, but what deeply troubles me about the War Mechanics was.. We were supposed to get these mechanics in Rebirth! It never materialized.

I remember Bernd saying before Rebirth's release that you could "Profit from the war".. What War???? Heart of Albion and Plutarch rarely ever skirmish with each other. The only war was part of the Ren Otani story plot and when that was over, back to the game having no war mechanics.
Which, ironically enough.. Black Rains Civil War in Rebirth Mod fixed and even that wasn't a
perfect solution.

I worry that X4 is going to be another case of big plans that fall apart that they just stop talking about it in hopes it goes away.

I wasn't one of those people that just bitched and whined about Rebirth not working like it should, I was patient and the game turned out good in the end, the Expansion making it more interesting.

But i've had enough of waiting, it's been 8 months now! There is being patient and there is just being patient to the point of passive aggressive.
If they can't fix it this time around to a decent state, not asking for it to be perfect, just decent level; if that can't be accomplished then what reason can Egosoft give me to stick around for X5?
I REALLY want to like this game, it's half-decent at the moment, but it could be X3 and I wouldn't be satisfied, waited too long for a better X Game and Egosoft needs to figure out what's going wrong? and fix it, too many years have been wasted and I don't have the patience anymore.
mr.WHO wrote: Fri, 5. Jul 19, 20:53 I can say many bad things about X4, but can you honestly say their models are bad (except Minotaur - that thing is flying atrocity)?
I can't get enough looking at my centaur on the landing pad - it feels tiny in space, yet on the platform it's huge:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1793045633
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1793045672

I love the Perseus Vanguard, it has a Bat Wing feel to it.. Just wish there was decent paint jobs for it.
Last edited by spankahontis on Tue, 16. Jul 19, 19:15, edited 1 time in total.
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mr.WHO
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by mr.WHO »

War is working correctly in X4, but it is heavily impeded by indestructible stations bug (faction cannot kill outpost to takeover the sector) and general lack of info what is hapening (e.g. who is attacking who and where at the moment).

I was helping HOP conquer Xenon territory (managed to help HOP claim one sector), but gave up due to indestructible Xenon outpost poping like mushrooms.
spankahontis wrote: Tue, 16. Jul 19, 19:04 I love the Perseus Vanguard, it has a Bat Wing feel to it.. Just wish there was decent paint jobs for it.
Cold Metal:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1806034068

Obsidian X (Collector Edition paint):
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1806034128

Warden:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1806034161
Last edited by mr.WHO on Tue, 16. Jul 19, 19:25, edited 1 time in total.
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spankahontis
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by spankahontis »

mr.WHO wrote: Tue, 16. Jul 19, 19:12 War is working correctly in X4, but it is heavily impeded by indestructible stations bug (faction cannot kill outpost to takeover the sector) and general lack of info what is hapening (e.g. who is attacking who and where at the moment).

I was helping HOP conquer Xenon territory (managed to help HOP claim one sector), but gave up due to indestructible Xenon outpost poping like mushrooms.
Only 2 weeks ago in my playthrough, I saw a Sector (Company Regard) fall into Xenon Hands, that gave me hope that Egosoft might just pull this off.

Allot of the time I see Paranid Destroyers and HOP Destroyers just buzz past each other in a Contested Sector in the Godrealm, if HOP wanted to take that region it could in the sheer scale of numbers it has. The Godrealm of the Paranid and the Argon/Ant.Republic are running on fumes right now.
But they simply can't go for the kill, as you pointed out, those ****** indestructible Defense Platforms that are semi-built.

I was disappointed when they went quiet about Rebirth having War Mechanics, but that's me hoping it was down to time constraints that Rebirth didn't allow?
But X4 and once again this promise broken would be devastating so I hope you're right, mate.
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mr.WHO
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by mr.WHO »

Have hope - aparently Egosoft is trying to fix it for 3.0.
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by photomankc »

radcapricorn wrote: Thu, 4. Jul 19, 01:14
BlackRain wrote: Wed, 3. Jul 19, 19:43
Let's clear up a few things.

.....
TLDR. It's a game man.
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by pref »

spankahontis wrote: Tue, 16. Jul 19, 19:24 Allot of the time I see Paranid Destroyers and HOP Destroyers just buzz past each other in a Contested Sector in the Godrealm, if HOP wanted to take that region it could in the sheer scale of numbers it has. The Godrealm of the Paranid and the Argon/Ant.Republic are running on fumes right now.
But they simply can't go for the kill, as you pointed out, those ****** indestructible Defense Platforms that are semi-built.
When i checked in 2.0 patrol scripts and such had no higher level logic, they just picked a target close to them preferring same class and that's it.
It wasn't even indestructible stations that caused the most problems, but defending ships ignoring attackers apart from a few lucky situations. And attacks lacking a systematic goal as well - seemed like just a simple go attack X station.

Haven't even seen anything war logic related in roadmap - and i guess it needs lots of new AI features to develop, then some heavy balancing with eco impact considered.
Comparable in scope to what changes LU made to X3, not just a couple fixes.
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by Panos »

Boringnick wrote: Sun, 30. Jun 19, 23:21 I know, it has been said more than enough times already, but, damn.
JUST WHY?
https://i.imgur.com/YfLYyK3.jpg <Oversize images replaced with links. Alan Phipps>


That's just a Teladian M haulier screenshot from ingame, and not one of the best looking ships, why I am the one not seen an issue here? Sure missing some lighting and reflections, yet X4 ships looks amazing compared to X3. Look at the scale of that thing also.

Here are some other ships.

https://i.imgur.com/fkq1fHY.jpg

Thats another Teladian M haulier landing.

https://i.imgur.com/v2wZpg0.jpg


Do you have actually a good GPU to crack up the graphics? Egosoft has done some pretty cool job on the graphic section.
As said missing some better lighting and reflections but thats about it. Compared to the low polygon images from the X3 you posted before, and X4 alpha.
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by Skeeter »

Mixture of lighting and flat clean surfaces/textures gives the impression that they look fake and too new etc.

Take a look at the 1st ship u shown, the backend flat grey panel, it supposably looks like it has dirt/texture to it but to me it looks like a stretched texture with big streaks in which are flat and undefined, then there is the blue areas where the 20 symbol is. Its too strong and bold that area and far too clean looking with no real depth or texture as in grit and no imperfections which gives it away. Tone the blue down, add some hull panelling in at about 10% transparency layer to give it some dark and light patches and maybe a bit of a film grain layer at 5% transparency and try maybe make the 20 have depth with a black outline. If a spec map is used for the panneling it would make it more reflective looking. Im sure they do use spec maps but not the way im thinking.

Just some textures are really not that great. Plus withe the modularity of the designs ships tend to be blocky and limits the artist design u could make with a unique model shape without needing modules stuck on like in older games or other space games. Elite does it better as in hides things or intergrates modules into nicer designs like say the weapons come out of ports that are closed when not in use and when in use open up like a cars headlamps on retro sports cars do and shows the barrels sticking out, compared to x4 stuck on brick weapons. I think rebirth even did it better as i think they were deployable and could be hidden tho i think they still had a brick for a base for which the weapon came out of sticking out of the ship tho could be wrong.

I went from a 3gb 780 ti using low preset gfx to a vega 56 and i cant go past medium with some things still turned off or low on stations due to fps issues even tho the cpu even using 50% in most cases or the gpu even getting to 50%. Try turning it to max as i should be able to fly with the gfx card but nope and i dunno why the game says it requires 3gb min, the game even maxed never reaches 3gb maybe 2.5gb vram. So.. I just tend to take it as a badly optimised game that they dunno how to get the performance properly like another company probably could. Yet they ego will say but but we are simulating a whole universe etc well whats the point of doing that if the game doesnt run very well. Rather have a game run nice and stable than a economy i couldnt give a monkey about being realistic. But thats just me. I play space games for the space adventure not a economy sim. I should be pew pewing 90% of the time but u dont.
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by Greenhorn »

:o It would be interesting if someone could contact rougueysx4.com.Ive tried, didnt work ,and place all ship pics in the ship statistic windows. So new people who dont have the game,and for qurioisty,metal & plastic graphic ships .
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spankahontis
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by spankahontis »

pref wrote: Tue, 16. Jul 19, 22:23
spankahontis wrote: Tue, 16. Jul 19, 19:24 Allot of the time I see Paranid Destroyers and HOP Destroyers just buzz past each other in a Contested Sector in the Godrealm, if HOP wanted to take that region it could in the sheer scale of numbers it has. The Godrealm of the Paranid and the Argon/Ant.Republic are running on fumes right now.
But they simply can't go for the kill, as you pointed out, those ****** indestructible Defense Platforms that are semi-built.
When i checked in 2.0 patrol scripts and such had no higher level logic, they just picked a target close to them preferring same class and that's it.
It wasn't even indestructible stations that caused the most problems, but defending ships ignoring attackers apart from a few lucky situations. And attacks lacking a systematic goal as well - seemed like just a simple go attack X station.

Haven't even seen anything war logic related in roadmap - and i guess it needs lots of new AI features to develop, then some heavy balancing with eco impact considered.
Comparable in scope to what changes LU made to X3, not just a couple fixes.

Like I said, I understand why they abandoned having this war mechanic in X:Rebirth; disappointed, but understandable, I just hope this cycle has given them the time needed to implement it in full. But at the moment it's a mess.
They abandoned the promise once, I don't want them to do this again with X4, otherwise they need to go on the record and apologize that they can't do it.
Otherwise it builds a bad reputation of promises they can't keep. Egosoft are not Hello Games, let's keep it that way.
Panos wrote: Wed, 17. Jul 19, 02:30
https://i.imgur.com/YfLYyK3.jpg <Oversize images replaced with links. Alan Phipps>


That's just a Teladian M haulier screenshot from ingame, and not one of the best looking ships, why I am the one not seen an issue here? Sure missing some lighting and reflections, yet X4 ships looks amazing compared to X3. Look at the scale of that thing also.



Do you have actually a good GPU to crack up the graphics? Egosoft has done some pretty cool job on the graphic section.
As said missing some better lighting and reflections but thats about it. Compared to the low polygon images from the X3 you posted before, and X4 alpha.

There are some beautiful Argon Fighters and Paranid Ships, love the Eclipse and the Perseus Vanguard.
But also some ugly ones as well as ships I feel are recycled from X:Rebirth, like the Shikyru Freighter Class, reminds me of the Lynarea Universal freighters in Omicron Lyrae.

Also, I like the fact that ships use Parts that attach to their Chassis like the Boosters, Turrets, Shields. Because it's realistic.
You go on holiday the jets use the same Turbines, cause they're likely built by the same Engineering Companies and apply them to the planes.

I'd like to see more Corporations in X4 with their own blueprints to their own patents. Like special Boosters and Engines whose Blueprints you can only get from a particular Corporation/Faction if you raise relations with them; you can't buy them from the Argon Federation/Godrealm/Holy Order Paranids/Teladi/Boron Etc.
You could still buy them from an Argon Wharf/Shipyard, but they don't own the Blueprints/Patent to them.
Last edited by spankahontis on Wed, 17. Jul 19, 16:32, edited 1 time in total.
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mr.WHO
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by mr.WHO »

More beauty shots:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1806938748


I think the only thing that stand out as "less quality" are XL ships that are downgrade comparing to X-Rebirth.
S, M size ships are clearly superior quality in X4.
L size ships are on par with X-Rebirth.

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