Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

[Boringnick]

I know, it has been said more than enough times already, but, damn.

X3:

https://www.egosoft.com/games/x3/screen ... en_266.jpg

https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/a ... 1512657152

https://live.staticflickr.com/8473/8437 ... ae64_b.jpg

X4:

https://www.pcgames.de/screenshots/orig ... rtwork.jpg

https://www.egosoft.com/games/x4/screen ... en_013.jpg

https://static.fore.4pcdn.de/premium/Sp ... easer1.jpg

JUST WHY?


{Images posted directly to the forums should not be greater than 640x480 or 100kb, oversize image now linked - Terre}

[Buzz2005]

lack of money, in the past for x3 they had special teams for every faction to model the ships

Now its clear they don't

[Cdaragorn]

The only thing that's clear is that you are oversimplifying what they've done so you can act like what you care about is the only thing there is to care about.

Building ships for x3 was far simpler than building them for x4. Ships in x4 have interiors and cockpits and other improvements that make building them a much bigger effort than the ships of x3 that could just be pretty for you to look at and didn't actually have to think about being functional.

We would all love to have the ships look nicer, but many of us also love the effort they've put into the immersion of actually flying and owning them. Where you think you see plastic I see complex robotics that have turned the old trinkets into movable machines.

[Buzz2005]

I didn't mean to sound harsh or in any way diminish the hard work that was done to make even one ship but what Iv stated was something a dev said on reddit about special designers for x3

And personally the only ships I don't like is paranid destroyers, they just look weird

But Argons are great

[Tanall]

Now, I will admit, that the ships in X4 do have a more 'plasticy' look. But this is likely down to the new engine handling material shaders differently. The key thing to pay attention to in comparing X4 to X3 is model detail.
Look at every ship in X3, IN GAME (not just the concept renders). They have glorious textures, but the actual model geometry is rather simple. Now look at the ships in X4. The textures are kind of meh, but the ships have orders of magnitude more model detail. The Gorgon pictured is a prime example, with all the struts and supports holding the outer hull panels. Or the look of the drives or weapons.
They traded texture detail for more model detail, and the good part about this is that they can always go back and add texture detail ON TOP of the higher model detail at a later date.

[Axeface]

They traded texture detail for more model detail, and the good part about this is that they can always go back and add texture detail ON TOP of the higher model detail at a later date.

The textures are just as good in x4, in fact they are probably higher res. You are correct that the modelling quality and details in X4 are far, far better than X3 though. The problem in X4 is the designs - and this is caused by many things, even balance. For example the Odysseus (for some reason??) can hanger a lot of ships, so its FAT. TEN M's!? Why?. Why can a destroyer hanger so many ships? Why should it? I'de rather that ships like the Odysseus have external hangers for maybe 2 fighters and leave the carrier work to the carriers. This adds to the games bloat problem too, I think they need to start reducing the amount of ships in general. I would prefer good performance battles with more impressive capitals and tougher fighters, than battles with a trillion drones and fighters lagging and melting even the best PC (and why can stations have so many turrets!?? DO you even care about performance egosoft??). Then there was the decision to make all turrets and engines etc huge. Im not against this per se but it could have been handled so much better, for example why dont the races have their own turret style? Everyone seems to have turrets designed by the Argon - looks terrible. And, standardised engines need to go, model bespoke engines for all ships - this just has to happen if you want good looking ships. The hanger door too, it doesnt need to be a swivelling door - it could open on runners or something, and it could be fast - hell, it could be race specific - and on that note, the docks! All the same regardless of race.

I think the Gorgon is the best example of whats wrong with X4's ship designs. Its a mess.

I had hoped that X4 was going to exploit the opportunity to really hammer home what each races style is - give the races a real identity and make their ships work well together, look awesome together. Its a shame.

[radcapricorn]

They have hangers? What for? Executing war criminals? How do they work in microgravity?

[Derp]

https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/a ... 1512657152

This is a picture from X3: Albion Prelude. It is the third full game using the X3 engine, At the time of its release, Egosoft had had six years of asset modeling to draw on.

https://www.egosoft.com/games/x4/screen ... en_013.jpg

This is a picture from X4: Foundations. It is the first full game using the X4 engine (I'm counting Rebirth as a tech demo, not a full game. Look at any NPC's hands to know why). Everything that went into this game was created for this game.

JUST WHY?

Because game assets take lots of time and effort. Better to have a working game with recycled dock modules than to insist everything be unique and never get played.

[radcapricorn]

I'm counting Rebirth as a tech demo, not a full game.

Too bad, because most X4 ships got nothing on Rebirth. Especially capitals.

[Derp]

I'm counting Rebirth as a tech demo, not a full game.

Too bad, because most X4 ships got nothing on Rebirth. Especially capitals.

Yeah, that's the weird thing. Why not give them to ANT or something?

[lordmuck]

Because they found a pen drive of some students assignment in his/her first year of 3d game modelling course and decided to use this crap :/ .. The assignment was called "making space toys for four year old kids "

[Axeface]

Because they found a pen drive of some students assignment in his/her first year of 3d game modelling course and decided to use this crap :/ .. The assignment was called "making space toys for four year old kids "

I really dont think thats fair. Like I said before the quality of the models is good, great in fact (with some exceptions, like the paranid capitals). Egos modellers have proven themselves time and time again, Rebirths art is excellent. The models in X4 have a lot of a detail, hold up to close inspection in first person (much better than rebirth even) - they are neat. I think the problem was probably a combination of an overworked small team, time, and lack of an overall concept artist, perhaps? Its like the races lack a general direction and design language. I think the mdoels were just made 'blind', without much pre-planning or thinking or concepting (which should be done by someone other than the modeller). I may be completely wrong of course, I just dont know.
Im not sure about the state of opimisation though.

They have hangers? What for? Executing war criminals? How do they work in microgravity?

Lol, im sooooo sooorry for my tiny spelling mistake ;p

[lordmuck]

Because they found a pen drive of some students assignment in his/her first year of 3d game modelling course and decided to use this crap :/ .. The assignment was called "making space toys for four year old kids "

I really dont think thats fair. Like I said before the quality of the models is good, great in fact (with some exceptions, like the paranid capitals). Egos modellers have proven themselves time and time again, Rebirths art is excellent. The models in X4 have a lot of a detail, hold up to close inspection in first person (much better than rebirth even) - they are neat. I think the problem was probably a combination of an overworked small team, time, and lack of an overall concept artist, perhaps? Its like the races lack a general direction and design language. I think the mdoels were just made 'blind', without much pre-planning or thinking or concepting (which should be done by someone other than the modeller). I may be completely wrong of course, I just dont know.
Im not sure about the state of opimisation though.

They have hangers? What for? Executing war criminals? How do they work in microgravity?

Lol, im sooooo sooorry for my tiny spelling mistake ;p

I will just give a few examples. Go look at x3 Nova and then look at x4.. x4 looks like a table top with a glass nipple. It looks like it only took 30mins to stuff together. I am not referring to textures. Most of the s ships look like they have been quickly chopped up and we ended up with 40% of the size of the model as I am guessing they did not fit in the stupid lifts / docking areas. Teladi and PAR ships are all identical some just squashed some pulled and some have a chunk cut out to look different, which is totally cheap and dirty. All ships in x4 are absolute crap in terms of shape / style / lore in terms of the model. From past iterations I would even choose numerous ships from x2 over x4!

In x3 and whenever I mention x3 I am saying without DLC within its first few months just like x4 atm.

All ships in x3 look like if they were actually made they would work and perform perfectly by looking at the ship. In x4 however I cannot fathom why the engineers that have """advanced in tech""" for a few hundred years have devolved in intelligence and made such flawed ships so even the basic idea of the model its self has had 0 thought put in also why would an engineer a few hundred years after x3 use far less turrets ? (coz CoMPutAtioNS iS tOo mUcH FoR oUr Pc NOW)

Every ship in X3 felt unique from each other when used (more so in looks) each small upgrade from an m3 to m3+ or scout to m3 felt like a massive accomplishment and it was things like this that gave addiction to the game in terms of advancing. While a number of people were upset when it comes to arming destroyers and so on due to the lack of weapons available to buy due to 0 in stock, I found this also enjoyable and loved each moment of trying to get a particular set of weapons from trade or piracy.

Each ship in x3 had its uses and the way the model was made fit the use of that particular ship and it was always hard to choose a favourite in its class if we exclude the Hyperion which has much better docking bays if we compare to a cerberus or ospray (which is an eagle with a MASSIVE wingspan!!)

Put an m3 from x3 against its equivalent in x4 or any class vs its "advancement in technology with a few hundred years to iron out any flaws" equivalent and tell me how ancient tech/shape/design in terms of weapon layout thrashed its counter in x4.

[Cdaragorn]

I will just give a few examples. Go look at x3 Nova and then look at x4.. x4 looks like a table top with a glass nipple. It looks like it only took 30mins to stuff together. I am not referring to textures. Most of the s ships look like they have been quickly chopped up and we ended up with 40% of the size of the model as I am guessing they did not fit in the stupid lifts / docking areas.

No, they don't. The models are very detailed and while you may not personally like the look of them many of us do. The problem I have with your posts is that instead of just expressing your dislike of how the models look you go into ridiculous hyperbole and openly insult those who put their time and effort into making them. I'm fine if you don't personally like something about the game and I'm even very interested in your opinion. I'm not fine with insulting anyone because of it.

Every ship in X3 felt unique from each other when used (more so in looks) each small upgrade from an m3 to m3+ or scout to m3 felt like a massive accomplishment and it was things like this that gave addiction to the game in terms of advancing. While a number of people were upset when it comes to arming destroyers and so on due to the lack of weapons available to buy due to 0 in stock, I found this also enjoyable and loved each moment of trying to get a particular set of weapons from trade or piracy.

Each ship in x3 had its uses and the way the model was made fit the use of that particular ship and it was always hard to choose a favourite in its class if we exclude the Hyperion which has much better docking bays if we compare to a cerberus or ospray (which is an eagle with a MASSIVE wingspan!!)

Now this is a complaint I can completely agree with, but it also has nothing to do with the topic of this post. The balancing of the ships is definitely severely lacking right now and I have high hopes that this will be addressed more as we get into the DLC additions to the game that will add many more ships to the currently limited stock. Ship balance has nothing to do with the models, though.

[mr.WHO]

X4 Minotaur is an eyesore, but other are not half bad.
They have their own style not really comparable to X-Rebirth (which had it's own style) - there are mods that port XR ships to X4.

[linolafett]

Guys, is no one noticing that we are partially comparing screenshots from way before release, where the materials were indeed not metallic?
You can even see blockout turrets on the paranid ship.
The materials were massively changed, just look at post release screenshots.

EDIT: And i would like to stop the insults towards the devs.
Calling us stupid interns who slapped the art together without a grain of salt gets this topic closed rather quickly. This is not how communication should be held and tolerated here.

[radcapricorn]

...why would an engineer a few hundred years after x3 use far less turrets?..

Few hundred? Nah, it's just over fifty. Yep, all it took was half a century

[mr.WHO]

...why would an engineer a few hundred years after x3 use far less turrets?..

Few hundred? Nah, it's just over fifty. Yep, all it took was half a century

Arawn and Fulmekron from X-Rebirth have more turrets than entire Argon Federation fleet (one carrier and bunch of destroyers).

While I think that amount of turrets of L-size ships is OK the XL ships are badly undergunned - they should have at least twice the current amount of turrets.

[radcapricorn]

As far as I know, no one called you guys any names in this thread. But, we've seen you do much, much better work (the company as a whole, and yourself personally, even back when you really were an intern), and it's really appalling to see you taking this realization as an insult.

[Tamina]

As far as I know, no one called you guys any names in this thread. But, we've seen you do much, much better work (the company as a whole, and yourself personally, even back when you really were an intern), and it's really appalling to see you taking this realization as an insult.

I think this is more on the line with: Insulting someones work is basically insulting a person directly. This goes especially for art - and especially especially for chefs, oh dear. There is constructive feedback and there is "they slapped it together in 30 minutes".