V2.20 - Worst Update Yet!

[Nafensoriel]

All these rather familiar first release discussions have nothing to do with 2.20 being the worst (or not) of the updates. Back on topic please.

@ Tamina: You're welcome, feel free at any time!

This is off topic.. but I just realized after years here that the Germans get a cat moderator and the English don't.

We should get the pitchforks ready and make alan convert to the cat cult!

[pvarn]

I'm having a hard time seeing 2.20 as a giant step backward, rather a small creep forward on the issues I care about. I expect there have been major advances (based on the patch notes) in areas I do not experience. My opinion is this rant is over-stated.

[Ragman]

Yeah so far my game is working much better, less lag etc

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

At least some of the alleged "fixes" are either not working in all cases or may have even introduced problems when previously none were observed.

Just so things are clear, which issues specifically are you referencing? We of course aim to release versions where the fixes are effective and nothing retroactivly gets broken, but there are of course issues which are known but do not get addressed in that patch. During the 2.20 testing process, we did state that several issues are to be fixed in an upcoming patch, primarily so that we can get 2.20 out the door while it's in a state we consider acceptable. Anyway, let us know what issues you're talking about and we'll check if these are already fixed for the next version or on our radar.

There are a few issues but the two main observations that triggered my post were:-

• Fixed never-ending conversations with NPCs via the target monitor. - I had never seen this before but as of 2.20 I have now seen an occurrence
• Fixed NPC ships potentially waiting forever to restock at equipment docks. - This one I may have misinterpreted but even after 4+ hours of runtime without SETA in 2.20 there are still numerous ships floating around outside wharfs/EDs apparently stuck on the "Restock subordinates" (or something like that) command

In the grand scheme of things, these two issues are relatively minor in themselves BUT the problem is there seems to be an apparent trend wrt X4 and software quality as a whole. I have no doubt that the team at Egosoft are working hard on addressing the various issues but the quality of the X4 releases are generally sub-par for the X-series games IMO/IME.

There have been other concerns seemingly introduced with 2.20 too (including but not limited to):

1. Integrated player shipyard/wharfs (and seemingly EDs - not confirmed) not able to equip cargo drones to ANY ship using the build screen despite having the plans for cargo drones (based on Station builds)
2. Orders silently cancelling with no notification as at why despite not being assigned to a ship/station (this one may have been an existing issue but I have only really noted it in V2.20)
3. Mouse interactions with UI elements (esp. popup trade dialogs) being even less user friendly than with V2.0 (there have been issues with mouse cursor interactions with the UI since initial release) - case in point: slider operation for cargo amounts in MORT dialogs not working reliably.

Sure, the game is getting more stable in terms of hard crashes and the new features are welcome in the main but that is besides the point...

It is a case of X4 V2.20 being more of the proverbial straw that break's the camel's back than any specific issues. It seems things on the general bugs front are getting progressively worse.

[Misunderstood Wookie]

I do not appear to get some of these bugs.
Firstly I do no think I have run this game vanilla since launch-
I have been using FOCW the entire time along with some form of the auto trader script (TaterTrader/AutoTrade) Such as X3 AP I used the War Mod alongside Lights Universe like any sane person would use or at the very minimum the first install for X3 would be Lights Universe.

First thing I did for X4 was install anything which fixed a lot of the endless time with ships doing nothing and stations waiting with orders (FOCW + TradeStationSink) I am now using a mod called Station Balance which is based upon Trade Station sink, this makes stations dump wares to keep the economy going while the fixes in FOCW help with actually making the AI build things and expand and fight.

Along with a few annoyance fixes that those are the major two, my biggest gripe with the game is just how randomly the engine performs I honestly want to see more time is done with making functional game logic and fast logic to fix the AI behaviours and make sub-routines not CHEW threw CPU threads like a rat into your kitchen closet.

I am sitting on a Xeon 6 core atm clocked at 4.5ghz AMD 480 G1 Gaming, Yes slightly below spec but GFX has nothing to do with why the game is not playable sometimes.
I can be plotting along at a constant 80FPS in dead space when out of bloody nowhere I start hearing "hey stop firing atm, that's it!" then BANG frame rate will tank to 54-48 for up too 15mins at a time just because three or four ships decided to have a bit of feather rustle.If I dare go onto an open space station I am set to watch the still movie at 25-38 frames per second!!!!
Look I understand there is shit going in the background.. but the GPU is at 100% the gfx definitely are not doing anything demanding for the GPU what is it rendering a few mediocre modelled ships and station hubs yes I say this because you think I cannot tell the model quality is rather basic to keep performance up! There is nothing fancy going on with the lighting, sure SSAO is a frame killer but that is to be expected. however, nothing I do with GFX besides that makes it run any faster.
I mean sure it is A LOT better than on my old 4 core CPU that would not even maintain 60 while looking at a station within 10km of the player.


I think my point is not being made as I have been saying this since I first launched the game, something IS NOT RIGHT!!! with the game logic it is doing things which tie up the CPU too often causing it to hang at times causing severe frame stuttering they need to focus their time on the core engine performance the economic aspect is open let modders fix that for now.

I have talked a number of other players, a number of whom are running better hardware than me things like Ryzen 2800X so and 1070ti etc they still have the same problems I get albeit not as bad but they still get 10-20frame difference tanks under certain conditions.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

I think my point is not being made as I have been saying this since I first launched the game, something IS NOT RIGHT!!! with the game logic it is doing things which tie up the CPU too often causing it to hang at times causing severe frame stuttering they need to focus their time on the core engine performance the economic aspect is open let modders fix that for now.

I believe we are on the same page here - there are numerous QOL-type bug issues with the baseline AI and game engine that detract from the improvements that are being made. There are numerous core issues which really need to be addressed before they add more stuff.

Where the AI logic is concerned, it is bound to be an on-going concern due to entity counts but that does not excuse some of the issues with orders hanging or being automatically and silently abandoned for no apparent reason. Order could not be completed notifications are seemingly not generated (or at least not logged) in all cases and orders are seemingly being auto-cancelled for no apparent reason.

The mouse driven interaction with the UI has been appalling since release, mis-clicks are STILL happening and at least some control hit box checks are obviously badly flawed (drop down menus for ammo/drones in the station layout screens for example). There are even some issues with entity selections from the map UI - for example: rubber band selection of ships can seemingly randomly auto-deselect (at least some of them) for no apparent reason.

I am normally quite pragmatic about game bugs but I do have my limits.

[Xenon_Slayer]

Fixed never-ending conversations with NPCs via the target monitor. - I had never seen this before but as of 2.20 I have now seen an occurrence

Bug report - There was an attempt to fix this but another case apparently remains. It's a tricky one as the issue doesn't survive savegames.

Please confirm: You could save while the conversation window was still visible? Was the character in the window still moving after you saved, or was it a frozen image?

We would still like to know the above info when this happens.

Fixed NPC ships potentially waiting forever to restock at equipment docks. - This one I may have misinterpreted but even after 4+ hours of runtime without SETA in 2.20 there are still numerous ships floating around outside wharfs/EDs apparently stuck on the "Restock subordinates" (or something like that) command

There are improvements on the way for the queues at shipyards and equipment docks. If you do have such an issue, hosting a savegame or directly sending it to owen@egosoft.com would help us verify that our solutions clear your case.

I personally can't comment on the other issues at the moment. The cargo drone one will be something I'll look into and I'll make sure those involved are aware of the other issues if they aren't already.

Edit: As for 2.20 regressions, the only one I'm aware of is accepted War missions being removed after a certain amount of time.

[pref]

Fixed NPC ships potentially waiting forever to restock at equipment docks. - This one I may have misinterpreted but even after 4+ hours of runtime without SETA in 2.20 there are still numerous ships floating around outside wharfs/EDs apparently stuck on the "Restock subordinates" (or something like that) command

There are improvements on the way for the queues at shipyards and equipment docks. If you do have such an issue, hosting a savegame or directly sending it to owen@egosoft.com would help us verify that our solutions clear your case.

Don't think it's a queue issue - in this dropbox save the wharf has no ships in build queue, also has no ARG fighters docked. Was running the game on seta for a couple 10 mins but argon military just circle there seemingly endlessly.
Or if you mean there is a queue hidden from player then it might be that.
Also near ANT wharf there are a couple ships on resupply, have not found other factions' ships with a resupply order so i don't know if it affects them as well or only ANT/ARG.

[SPiDER]

@ Xenon Slayer yesterday I posted two save games in two threads about the "wharf Storage" and " Ships Returning From Venture" in those save games you can clearly see the behaviour of the ARG and ANT Military situation with ships stuck and orbit wharf problems
Argon Prime wharf orbit Colosus and subordinates "resupply" and 68 ship buildqueue
Argon Prime SHipyard 1 Behemoth "wait" command
Hat 3 Eqp Dock 1 Behemoth "wait" command
And Hop ships making it to Argon prime
And the ghost town that is SC11 because of the ARG ANT military problem

[kobayashimaru]

Egosoft is getting worse, not better with their Software Quality and the result is an unacceptable degree of product degradation.

In some ways, V2.20 is an improvement BUT in others it is a major misstep by Egosoft.

At least some of the alleged "fixes" are either not working in all cases or may have even introduced problems when previously none were observed. Egosoft really need to look more closely at their test and release strategy and address what seems to be a systematic problem with their current release process.

Weird, you’re the last person I’d expect to hear this from Things must be really broken if even people who usually defend the game (carriers, combat, economy, etc) are calling this out. Well, I myself stopped playing at around 1.60 ad decided to just wait for improvements. Guess I’m not done waiting yet...

Yes, the last person! Things must be getting really dire.

I postponed playing this game for a year or two. Maybe then, after 3-4 dlcs and 100 euros more this game becomes actually playable.

[greengriffon]

"Worst Update Yet"?

In space, no one can hear your Hyperbole.

[memxcom]

I have to agree worst update yet, I can't even play the game for more then 15 seconds now before CTD, 2.0 and previous versions I had zero crashes. Anyway I'll wait for next patch to see if they get it sorted, I hope so.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Fixed never-ending conversations with NPCs via the target monitor. - I had never seen this before but as of 2.20 I have now seen an occurrence

Bug report - There was an attempt to fix this but another case apparently remains. It's a tricky one as the issue doesn't survive savegames.

Please confirm: You could save while the conversation window was still visible? Was the character in the window still moving after you saved, or was it a frozen image?

We would still like to know the above info when this happens.

Static image from a teldai race station manager reporting trade complete (according to subtitle text) IIRC. Was away from the computer at the time the event was triggered so not sure of what exactly it was talking about.

In the game save I have sent a link to (game save >25MB google attachment limit), I think it was the manager of my HQ who replaced another manager that disappeared for no apparent reason.

Fixed NPC ships potentially waiting forever to restock at equipment docks. - This one I may have misinterpreted but even after 4+ hours of runtime without SETA in 2.20 there are still numerous ships floating around outside wharfs/EDs apparently stuck on the "Restock subordinates" (or something like that) command

There are improvements on the way for the queues at shipyards and equipment docks. If you do have such an issue, hosting a savegame or directly sending it to owen@egosoft.com would help us verify that our solutions clear your case.

Sent a link to the file on my google drive as mentioned above.

I personally can't comment on the other issues at the moment. The cargo drone one will be something I'll look into and I'll make sure those involved are aware of the other issues if they aren't already.

Edit: As for 2.20 regressions, the only one I'm aware of is accepted War missions being removed after a certain amount of time.

I do appreciate the efforts of the Egosoft team and have faith that things can be improved, it is a shame that I felt strong enough about the state of successive X4 releases to post a thread like this.

[Buzz2005]

I think everybody understands, the game can be frustrating and I had moments to make a thread like you plenty of times

I was lucky to buy rebirth after 3 years

[SPiDER]

Looks like somebody found the reason the ARG military got broke ( ship building issue ) just posted in Beta forum...

[Misunderstood Wookie]

I think everybody understands, the game can be frustrating and I had moments to make a thread like you plenty of times

I was lucky to buy rebirth after 3 years

Hmm X3 had similar teething issues.
I deffo knew to come into this game the first year would have bugs and performance drops galore I just brought in early because after XR they kinda have make this one work for them as this is the big daddy a proper sequel to X3 AP however it does feel a bit bland right now and I am not certain I am happy with the fix bugs before fixing the core scripts logic behaviour which keeps the whole game running smoothly without tear shreds into cpu cycles. I mean Vulkan API is amazing it should be running flawlessly on most AMD hardware as GPU taxing with Vulkan can be optimised quite well, of which I think is not a great case for Vulkan use beyond the fact I can see they went with Vulkan as it helps a lot with Ai Logic if you program it right it allows a lot to go on, on screen with near no frame hit.

I still believe the game needs to the performance monitoring re-done after launch and figure out exactly what bits of code are running too slowly the only thing I can think is that we are getting loops in the math or it is doing math too frequently due to not so great code and this ultimately is the cause of the frame tanking and all the other bs when it actually has to do process ships flying around you.

[bradfordvs]

For what it is worth, I have been patiently waiting and watching (knowing Egosoft is actively working on making the game better). In the meantime I have been playing Skyrim SE, which is buggy after how many years, and Kenshi which crashes every couple of hours (still a great game). In my opinion the commonality is that each game is hugely complicated due to their non-linear nature. I applaud Egosoft for involving the community to the degree they have, and for their continued support of the game. How many games in your library have been released with virtually no support or updates from the devs, let alone having the devs actively engage with you? To be clear, the last sentence is a rhetorical question .

[CBJ]

I have to agree worst update yet, I can't even play the game for more then 15 seconds now before CTD, 2.0 and previous versions I had zero crashes. Anyway I'll wait for next patch to see if they get it sorted, I hope so.

The chances of us getting it sorted for whatever specific problem you are having will be much improved if we know why it's crashing so much for you, where it isn't for most people. That will mean you creating a thread in Tech Support and providing the information requested at the top of that forum.

[Misunderstood Wookie]

For what it is worth, I have been patiently waiting and watching (knowing Egosoft is actively working on making the game better). In the meantime I have been playing Skyrim SE, which is buggy after how many years, and Kenshi which crashes every couple of hours (still a great game). In my opinion, the commonality is that each game is hugely complicated due to their non-linear nature. I applaud Egosoft for involving the community to the degree they have, and for their continued support of the game. How many games in your library have been released with virtually no support or updates from the devs, let alone having the devs actively engage with you? To be clear, the last sentence is a rhetorical question .

Can agree to that, I never liked XR at the start, tho after much dev since I can happily say a lot of reviews are outdated and do not apply to the final game, it runs well, it plays well, the only thing it lacks is that X3 appeal but that is what X4 brings to the table. The dev team are always active and respond to issues on the forums I brought X4 early because they will need funding to keep making the series. As for Skyrim SE, I can happily direct you into a bug-free experience I have been modding Skryim since pre SE.

Thank me later - check spoiler

Spoiler

Show

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecial ... mods/15984
or at very least, https://skse.silverlock.org/ & https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/266
Either way that guide, in theory, runs butter smooth if you follow the steps.

Vanilla/Light Weight Experience (great install and forget with a mod manger 'Vortex or Mod Organiser 2')
1. Unofficial Skyrim Patch (a huge fix for just about everything broken in vanilla)
2. SKSE (place the files into the root where skyrimse.exe is and launch game with its .exe, fixes much performance issues)
3. BethINI (setup your gfx, save n exit)
A couple of nice things for vanilla
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecial ... /mods/3532 + https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecial ... mods/12125 + https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecial ... mods/18308

[Xanador77]

For me it's the best update yet! Started again after a break and the fleet/carrier improvements are what makes the change. Bugs are still there and AI should be improved, but I have fun. At least I did not noticed more bugs than before, but I think that depends on what you're doing ingame.