new game, can't buy any ships

[zakaluka]

Now in 2.1 beta, 2 hours in and spent just enough time to get myself a few million credits, 3 drills and 2 explorers. I go to buy a Nova Vanguard from Argon Prime, to upgrade my fighter. Engine Part shortage.

Who will it be this time to defend this, saying new players must explore using their Elite and find ANT/MIN before being able to buy ships? That'd give me a laugh.

[radcapricorn]

Nah, you can buy it. I thought the same, scouring the sectors to find a wharf that didn't have this "Not enough Engine Parts" tip. They all did have it. So I gave up and just ordered a ship anyway. It got built. The gist of it is, as explained in other threads, is that that UI is not indicative of what's actually going on. Now, as far as I can tell, you can still run into a resource shortage problem (I did several times on upgrades), but what resource exactly, that tooltip doesn't actually say.

[Shehriazad]

Some complaint once or twice a week...same suggestions that are mostly ignored every time.

It's getting a bit tiresome, aye?

[zakaluka]

Some complaint once or twice a week...same suggestions that are mostly ignored every time.

It's getting a bit tiresome, aye?

(EDIT: let me scrub the sarcasm)
As a person with experience in software development, this is when you begin to ask if there's actually a problem with the design.

[radcapricorn]

I mean, one thing you just don't do, ever, is mislead the user. If you don't have relevant information to display, or you can't display it in a useful way yet, don't display anything. If something isn't fully implemented yet, don't allow user to do it. I don't get why Ego is stubbornly ignoring this simple rule. This shipyard problem, the seminars, the auto-whatever, the "difficulty" of various missions, the "collect wares"... I shudder to think, imagine a disk repair utility that says "contents of this volume will be lost", but when you click OK, contents of all other volumes but that one would be lost.

[linolafett]

If the build menu shows a "not enough resources" message, then there are not enough ressources really there at the time of your order.
If thats not the case in your game, then please create a bug report with a savegame for us to reproduce that.
When you confirm anyways the order will be put in the queue and will be completed at some point when the resources were delivered.

Being able to put ships into the queue was deemed better than prohibiting players to order anything at all.

[lordmuck]

Have you ever tried to order that 1 thing that 1 place only supplies and hardly ever found any in stock? I have ..IF I had money I would exploit the situation and try become a supplier of said item. Why should an economy in a game be different? Having said this! Even the AI should exploit the situation and build more stations / complexes to support such a hole, not build 5 or more defence platforms. If its not a station issue and more of a delivery issue the manager at the station should purchase or build transporters specifically for said product. Which is not happening, they prefer to build 1000s of constructors which are doing nothing in comparison to the amount of stations being built at the same time by that faction. Not only producing 1000s of constructor ships, they then employ another constructor from a different race..

So while IRL we run into shortages of an item and it should be the same in a game, the AI should try build more stations providing the item and not useless defence platform spam, therefore making more money and also keeping up with the factions building needs OR buy/make transporters and not constructors that they will never use all at the same time.

EDIT: build missions could also be used to fill such holes not "make a dock and storage" which is used ....... by no one and nothing useful comes of it.

[radcapricorn]

If the build menu shows a "not enough resources" message, then there are not enough ressources really there at the time of your order.
If thats not the case in your game, then please create a bug report with a savegame for us to reproduce that.
When you confirm anyways the order will be put in the queue and will be completed at some point when the resources were delivered.

Being able to put ships into the queue was deemed better than prohibiting players to order anything at all.

Isn't this from the very thread where the user provided a savegame?.. Which is it then, there are not enough resources for my order, or for the whole queue?

Look, I have just started playing the game yesterday. Got the Boron mission, (s)he needs a ship. I go looking for a wharf. Every wharf I find says it's missing some amount of Engine Parts, form several hundred to several thousand. Knowing people have been having issues with this for a long time, I keep looking (keep in mind I've no idea where they are, except a couple that I saw on streams, so it takes time). That's already pretty much the prohibition you're talking about. As in, why would I place the order if it says it doesn't have resources?..

But all wharves that I found have the shortage. So I steal a freighter, thinking that I'd supply the stuff myself, or worst case use that freighter for the mission. I go to the wharf that's least short and order a small fighter there. The order does complete. In my case, it completed almost immediately. But the "shortage" never did go away. By the way, this completion triggered the "build station module" achievement, for whatever reason; I reported it elsewhere, but this event does add texture to the issue, so there.
Anyway, I continue playing and want to upgrade a ship. So I bring it to another "short" wharf, order the things, confirm, and... nothing. The timer's stuck. So I get my freighter and order it to bring the parts... except even before it gets there, the timer unsticks and completes, even though the displayed shortage, again, is still there.

What must I, a new player, make of all this?.. How in the world should I know that the UI doesn't mean what it says? How should I know that "The display is a bit misleading and will be improved. When you order a ship, you'll find that it is somewhat prioritised in the queue. What the menu actually displays is based on what resources would be missing once everything in the queue is finished."? Why should I have to find out about this second-hand, scouring between this forum, the Tech Sp. where the Linux thread is, and the Beta forum?!?

This certainly falls into "don't display anything" category. Because as it is right now, it only creates confusion.

PS. If you really do need another save, I'll upload one later this evening.

[linolafett]

The linked savegame is about a different issue i think.

Please create a new bug report in the same forums as the linked thread. Stating your observation that the ship buiild UI displays missing ressources but the ships get build anyways.
Only one bug report per thread. In that way we can handle the reports better internally. Thanks for your effort and time!

[GCU Grey Area]

the AI should try build more stations providing the item and not useless defence platform spam...

That's probably what they're doing. The name of a station changes depending on what modules have been built. Every new NPC station I've seen built since the start of the game started out as 'Defence Platform' - that just means it's got a place to dock & a defence module. After it's first production module is completed it's name changes to reflect it's new role. Those defence platforms aren't useless spam, they're often simply stations which haven't been finished yet.

But all wharves that I found have the shortage. So I steal a freighter, thinking that I'd supply the stuff myself, or worst case use that freighter for the mission. I go to the wharf that's least short and order a small fighter there. The order does complete. In my case, it completed almost immediately. But the "shortage" never did go away. By the way, this completion triggered the "build station module" achievement, for whatever reason; I reported it elsewhere, but this event does add texture to the issue, so there.
Anyway, I continue playing and want to upgrade a ship. So I bring it to another "short" wharf, order the things, confirm, and... nothing. The timer's stuck. So I get my freighter and order it to bring the parts... except even before it gets there, the timer unsticks and completes, even though the displayed shortage, again, is still there.

What must I, a new player, make of all this?..

In those circumstances I'd suspect an NPC freighter made a delivery. Not enough to get rid of the shortage entirely, but sufficient to get one or more ships built, particularly if the ship's a size S & doesn't require many resources. The shortage notification remains there because the wharf is still well below what it needs to function properly, but enough was delivered to get it running in the short term.

This certainly falls into "don't display anything" category. Because as it is right now, it only creates confusion.

Disagree, think it's still a vital notification - would be far worse to have no indication at all that a wharf or shipyard was subject to supply problems. Very handy too when buying in bulk to know the limits of when a shipyard/wharf can provide before it's going to run out of resources (i.e. setup an order for as many ships as it takes to get the shortage notification to display, then change the order to 1 fewer). It's also very helpful for players who own a trading fleet to help prioritise trading with shipyards & wharves which are most in need of resupply (therefore also likely to be the most profitable).

[radcapricorn]

...What must I, a new player, make of all this?..

In those circumstances I'd suspect an NPC freighter made a delivery. Not enough to get rid of the shortage entirely, but sufficient to get one or more ships built, particularly if the ship's a size S & doesn't require many resources. The shortage notification remains there because the wharf is still well below what it needs to function properly, but enough was delivered to get it running in the short term.

I suspect as much as well, but my point is that is not what the UI says. It says there isn't enough materials. Well if there isn't enough materials, how the hell does it build then? I mean, put a new player's shoes on for a second.

This certainly falls into "don't display anything" category. Because as it is right now, it only creates confusion.

Disagree, think it's still a vital notification ...when buying in bulk ...for players who own a trading fleet...

No argument, it is vital. Or will be, eventually, hopefully. At the moment, it's just misleading. And I'm not even talking about buying in bulk. Again, try looking at this from a newcomer's perspective: like, I wasted maybe four hours trying to find a wharf that wasn't short, when all I had to do was just place the freaking order. Well, I say "wasted", maybe I should rather say "could've enjoyed those four hours more". It's funny though, I've been following the issues since release, but reading and reasoning about them is one thing. Seeing them first-hand, it's quite another.

Now, as I said, I knew there were issues with the supply chains. I know how to side-step some of them. That's not what my ranting's about. It's about the disconnect between the UI and what's going on in the game.

[MegaJohnny]

So while IRL we run into shortages of an item and it should be the same in a game, the AI should try build more stations providing the item and not useless defence platform spam, therefore making more money and also keeping up with the factions building needs OR buy/make transporters and not constructors that they will never use all at the same time.

I don't know if the faction logic actually takes shortages into account, but in my savegame several factories have been built in Trinity Sanctum producing Engine Parts.

[lordmuck]

the AI should try build more stations providing the item and not useless defence platform spam...

That's probably what they're doing. The name of a station changes depending on what modules have been built. Every new NPC station I've seen built since the start of the game started out as 'Defence Platform' - that just means it's got a place to dock & a defence module. After it's first production module is completed it's name changes to reflect it's new role. Those defence platforms aren't useless spam, they're often simply stations which haven't been finished yet.

Sorry I have not seen these be converted into something else / built on yet in hours :/

So while IRL we run into shortages of an item and it should be the same in a game, the AI should try build more stations providing the item and not useless defence platform spam, therefore making more money and also keeping up with the factions building needs OR buy/make transporters and not constructors that they will never use all at the same time.

I don't know if the faction logic actually takes shortages into account, but in my savegame several factories have been built in Trinity Sanctum producing Engine Parts.

I am not saying they wont build stuff, engine parts are not a shortage in my playthrough so I cant say much about that. If the AI is doing what I said in my previous comment, then perhaps they just need a small tweak to be a little more on the ball on these bits. However nothing has been said as to why all the constructors and not traders to haul the stuff around if there are enough stations.