Egosoft had to release X4 unfinished?

[Notak]

i don't see how its fraud, its unfinished in the sense it has bugs, how is that fraud?

Edit: you try creating a program that works on multiple platforms with multiple graphics cards and so many variables its unthinkable, its not fraud, its unfinished, beta testers can only do so many variables, this is why public releases are always buggy

Edit 2: back in the day of Goldeneye on the n64 (an old fav) there was many testers because once the game was released there was no going back, now we have the internet to fix things on the fly, the internet age means things like this is possible, as much of a blessing it is, its also a burden, just deal with it and get on

[Phoynix]

knowing releasing a broken product is fraud in every western(likely most) countries on the planet.

Its a matter of intent, if they had the honest belief that X4 was fully working(or at least bugs were minor in that they didn't stop gameplay) then they didn't commit fruad, if however they released X4 while aware it contained game stopping bugs(which it does I had to restart 3-4 times after hitting them) then it was fraud.

Not saying one way or the other if I think they knew it had game stopping bugs, but I am sure they knew it wasn't properly tested and buggy and badly balanced. Early Access was the way to go, it really was it would have given them a far better product(look at 1.3 patch alone) that would have then been released to the general public in a far better state and with lots of mods already downloadable made by the hardcore fans. It would have been a win for consumers and a win for developers... There was better ways to handle the launch without good reasons as to why they couldn't have done EA, if it was released knowingly with game breaking bugs it was illegal, that is to say fraud and a criminal act.

As for everyone defending them...

EA would have resulted in the MAJORITY of all bad reviews NOT existing...
They are almost entirely about serious bugs... you still have other silly reviews where people dont like the complication etc and to be fair even the Tutorials stop functioning or they function and the gameplay mechanic they are teaching you is broken(claiming quite a few ships at release)

Without those bad reviews the game would sell more copies, with more copies comes increased profitssss... Increased profits gives Egosoft the ability to create better expansions which in turn bring in more money, the profits from X4 and its expansions being greater then would allow egosoft more resources for the next game they decide to develop.

Which is actually better for EVERYONE developer and Consumer?
Maybe instead of saying well they did it before... again and again and again but they fix it in the end so don't complain, you should be saying "Egosoft we love your games we love your support but we wish you would do better on the release in regards to bugs by putting it through Early Access first"

Instead it seems to be if you have a problem with Egosoft even if you love the game that your a troll or baiting or flaming. Their is a difference between feedback and putdowns outside of a few cases on the forums the majority of people not 100% happy with the release day product has been feedback.

i don't see how its fraud, its unfinished in the sense it has bugs, how is that fraud?

Edit: you try creating a program that works on multiple platforms with multiple graphics cards and so many variables its unthinkable, its not fraud, its unfinished, beta testers can only do so many variables, this is why public releases are always buggy

[StoneLegionYT]

Oh boy....

[AdrianB1]

The way I see it:
1. the balance sheet is very clear, Egosoft could not wait another year to launch, money were running out. This is a fact, one year ago they had less than half a million euros, that is not enough to pay 5 decent developers for 2 years. They need money now or go under.
2. A later launch would be the Easter season, but sales are lower than Christmas season, so no a good choice. Also not enough time to get everything fixed and polished, not "good enough" but "delightful".
3. Hardcore X series fans paid the money, most of them knowing that the flaws will be fixed later.
4. The state of the game hurts a lot the sales to newcomers or casual players, but there were not many options.
5. Is it fraud? Maybe, not for me as I chose to wait for a better experience in a later version. Can one sue for $75? Definitely yes, in my country (in Europe) it would cost me a few hours and I would be able to self-represent (I am not a lawyer, but an IT mgr, but I went in court a few times on my own and won every time) with no extra cost. Is it worth? For a principle, yes, for the money, no. Do people have principles these days and fight for it? Very few.

But the fight in this thread is not justified. The defenders are aggressive for no reasons, the situation is quite bad. The complaints are justified, but I don't understand what is the expectation. Will Egosoft improve the game? Most probably yes, they have a track record of doing it. Will it be tomorrow? No way. Is this discussion changing anything? No, there is nothing to change: Egosoft sold an incomplete game to keep afloat, they are probably working to their best to improve it, it will be ready when it will be ready - by their financials they have no more than 5 developers, so they are not EA or Ubisoft to prioritize and throw more people at it, they have a single product and a "all hands on deck" situation.

So what are you talking about and what are you expecting?

[Notak]

@Phoynix Fraud is illegal in any country, take them to court and see what happens....

They released a product they did not say that that product would be bug free at launch, you chose to purchase that product end of.

Fraud: no
False Advertising: prove it and you might "MIGHT" have a case
Forum full of ppl bitching: Confirmed

Edit: You wanna moan, go buy fallout 76, the most disgraced game in 2018

[Taramafor]

My theory is that due to the disaster of Rebirth (doesn't matter if it SOLD well. The game DAMAGED THE COMPANIES REPUTATION) the company got scared and wondered if people would even remain interested in the X games. And so didn't have their hearts in it when working on X4. In a situation like that you're going to wonder not just about the long term cash but also moral. Imagine working on a game after the last one in the series was a flop. That shit is depressing.

Thing is we love the X games when they're done well. The irony of it all is that if the devs focused on the game more (or, you know, WAITED before release with more TLC) we wouldn't be complaining in the first place. Which is probably what they're afraid of. But it is they that CHOSE to release the game in this state. They didn't HAVE too. They CHOSE too.

[Notak]

The Ops post states that they were running out of funding so yeah they "Had to" according to the OP, I am a brand new player to the X Series and frankly i love it, so they must be doing something right

[Notak]

honestly everyone who is complaining about Egosoft, get over yourselves, Yeah the games got bugs, you tell me a game that doesnt have bugs at launch ( with evidence)

Egosoft if the most dedicated dev team i have seen in years, if you dont like that then get your refund, sod off and stop slandering a good dev team

[StormMagi]

Youre somewhat wrong:

-Xbtf was a somehwat easy programmed game - compared to X4. Its from 199x !

Xtension shared engine of xbtf
X2 shared engine
X3 shared engine, was buggy, but fixed
X3TC AP shared fixed engine of X3R

You see?
making something completely new and different isnt as aeasy as you think, especially with Xgames.

Sorry, but Im not wrong. And not even "somewhat". Its rather that you have obviously no clue what youre talking about.

ALL X-games are very complex games. XBTF was even more of a struggle because they needed an engine to support it.
X3 did not share the engine with X2 - there was a massive overhaul of its rendering engine.

Rebirth shares the new engine with X4 - So why has X4 not a polish closer to TC than to the trainwreck Rebirth was? (Actually the level of 'broken' is somewhere between X3 and Rebirth...)
As you see - your statements make no sense. No offense.

Sorry if someone already said this but: The game engine includes more than just rendering portion, it also includes the much of what makes the game work. I wasn't around for X3 launch so can't comment. But from my time with X3TC when I was around for launch, they hadn't changed much under the hood so it and AP were fairly tame. XR was a new engine, but still with DX9 renderer plus other changes under the hood (not sure exactly, I enjoyed XR but life happened and only played ~100 hours), X4 shares the same engine as XR but the graphics engine was moved from DX9 to Vulkan and, from what I have been reading, much of the economy portions if not a fair part of the GOD engine were rewritten as well. Which would explain why the polish level isn't what you expected. Multiple new systems under the hood, hard to do a large test of everything in such a small company.

[Notak]

guys seriously, play the game, get cash, ignore bugs (they will get fixed coz egosoft has an outstanding reputation for that) then dominate the galaxy,

I am already planning to take the SCA near Grand exchange as Nopileos' Fortune VI has a very closed gate network so if you control that then you can secure the region quite easily

[Komuso]

honestly everyone who is complaining about Egosoft, get over yourselves, Yeah the games got bugs, you tell me a game that doesnt have bugs at launch ( with evidence)

Egosoft if the most dedicated dev team i have seen in years, if you dont like that then get your refund, sod off and stop slandering a good dev team

It's because of people like you (and the others who defend this practice - you know who you are) that the game is the way it is.

You fail to see there are far better ways of managing a product and marketing it.
And because people like you suck it up companies keep pumping out crap under the guise "we'll patch it later".

It's no wonder we can't have nice things at launch.

They designed Early Access to stop crap like this. WTF didn't ES use it?

And for the record, as I've stated previously here, this is not (so much) a failure of hard working developers but a failure of product and project management.
And add business and marketing strategy to it as well. This is not the way to get new users on board your brand.

[Cabrelbeuk]

Well tbh even if i agree that every gamedev company should deliver a finished product, i am WAY more pissed off when Bethesda, EA (simcity 2013...) or Ubisoft, which got way more ressources, do it.

But i agree that this is not something we should just accept in general.

[Alee Enn]

Has it been released in a perfect state? No.
Do I feel I have been lied to by Egosoft? No.
Do I want my money back? No.

Yes there are bugs, and I honestly haven't experienced them, or if I have, I haven't noticed.
It's better than Rebirth was, and I didn't buy Rebirth until about 4 four years after release, and then didn't play it past about 10 minutes in.
I love X4. I think it's better than my previous fave of the series X3TC. I forsee myself playing X4 for years.

Someone above said "people need to stop defending Egosoft" ... maybe, but people also need to stop attacking them as well. Everyone needs to chill.

It's an early access game passed off as an official release, which technically qualifies for "false advertising".

Companies need to stop pulling this shit. If the game isn't ready, do it as Early Access and manage expectations properly.
Don't market it as ready then release an early access product and expect people to pat you on the back and lap it up.

That's just a ****** way to bait and switch customers to maximize launch income.

They deserve to get blowback for such a cynical marketing strategy when there was an appropriate alternative path there the whole time.

Look, I and others are happy .... if you're not, that's ok. I sincerely hope you get a refund (assuming you want one) and I hope you find a game you are happy with. But please don't waste your time posting on a forum for a game you're not happy with just to try make others agree with your point of view. Like I said .... everyone needs to chill.

[Komuso]

Has it been released in a perfect state? No.
Do I feel I have been lied to by Egosoft? No.
Do I want my money back? No.

Yes there are bugs, and I honestly haven't experienced them, or if I have, I haven't noticed.
It's better than Rebirth was, and I didn't buy Rebirth until about 4 four years after release, and then didn't play it past about 10 minutes in.
I love X4. I think it's better than my previous fave of the series X3TC. I forsee myself playing X4 for years.

Someone above said "people need to stop defending Egosoft" ... maybe, but people also need to stop attacking them as well. Everyone needs to chill.

It's an early access game passed off as an official release, which technically qualifies for "false advertising".

Companies need to stop pulling this shit. If the game isn't ready, do it as Early Access and manage expectations properly.
Don't market it as ready then release an early access product and expect people to pat you on the back and lap it up.

That's just a ****** way to bait and switch customers to maximize launch income.

They deserve to get blowback for such a cynical marketing strategy when there was an appropriate alternative path there the whole time.

Look, I and others are happy .... if you're not, that's ok. I sincerely hope you get a refund (assuming you want one) and I hope you find a game you are happy with. But please don't waste your time posting on a forum for a game you're not happy with just to try make others agree with your point of view. Like I said .... everyone needs to chill.

I have plenty of games I'm happy with.

I'm glad you're happy, but I (and quite obviously many others - especially new players to the franchise) are not.

It's the height of ignorance to tell us to "chill", which is really just a passive aggressive way to tell us to STFU.
Which is what you really want to say. And No, we won't. We have every right to be critical and complain about the quality.
If they want to charge AAA prices they can take the AAA heat when they release what they know is a complete bugfest with no docs - which is not what was advertised.

I'm in the process of attempting to get a refund but Steam is being particularly nasty atm, and is sticking to their TOS as a result.

So buzz off.

[CBJ]

Once again, do not make this personal. Discuss the topic of the thread, not each other, and don't tell other people what they can and can't post. That's the job of moderators. This applies to both sides of the discussion equally.

[xLunacy]

@Komuso

Some people are happy, some are not, some are waiting. That's alright, it really is, different people want different things and have different expectations.

You're not going to convince people in your point of view, because to most of the X vets here and to some of the new enthusiastic players that enjoy X4, you frankly look like a spoiled child that isn't getting their lollypop. Sorry @CBJ if this is offensive, but it's the truth.

If you cannot see 2 and 2, and understand the scale of Egosoft and how they operate, that's frankly your problem. They obviously had financial issues after Rebirth and likely had to/changed some of the staff (people come and go, you know), so like someone else said earlier - I prefer a release that will get patched up and improved like X3:Reunion, than no release at all since they had to bail.

Yes, it's not completely finished and it feels buggy at times, but there was a lot of people advising others to wait for a few in-depth reviews and then decide. You decided to buy despite/before that, your problem, not everyone else's. Me? I bought the Collector's Edition, played for 20-30 hours, shelved the game for now and kicked off another X3AP modded session. I'm happy. Planning to revisit the game in a month or two.

[AdrianB1]

Look, I and others are happy .... if you're not, that's ok.

Happiness is not the subject of this discussion, but the state of the game as unfinished. You can be happy with an unfinished game, it is your right, but what is the point that you want to make? I do not understand, can you please clarify?

[euclid]

Please folks keep it civilized. No more personal insults please.

@xLunacy: Consider this as a final warning!

Cheers Euclid

[Taramafor]

The Ops post states that they were running out of funding so yeah they "Had to" according to the OP, I am a brand new player to the X Series and frankly i love it, so they must be doing something right

Ever heard of loans?

honestly everyone who is complaining about Egosoft, get over yourselves, Yeah the games got bugs, you tell me a game that doesnt have bugs at launch ( with evidence)

Egosoft if the most dedicated dev team i have seen in years, if you dont like that then get your refund, sod off and stop slandering a good dev team

While other games had bugs they didn't take steps back from past games in the same series. Or have THIS many problems on Launch. And most other games learn from the mistakes of the same games in a series.

Get over YOUR self. The fixes aren't coming soon and even when they do arrive we shouldn't have to wait for that after the game came out at full price. Not when X3 did it better.

[Riccardoman]

The game was probably rushed
But if the devs will expand and fix the game with the same scale and care as X3, i'm totally on board with it and i'll gladly give them more money if they need them