Egosoft had to release X4 unfinished?

[technotica]

I think Egosoft are just doing what they have been doing since 1999, all of the X games started out similar to x4, bugs, cotnent problems etc. Then after time they became one of the ebst space games around because egosoft was and is very dedicated to updating them.

Why would they jump into early access if this has worked for almost 20 years?

[VariousArtist]

I think Egosoft are just doing what they have been doing since 1999, all of the X games started out similar to x4, bugs, cotnent problems etc.

Thats just not true! X:BTF + Xtension, X2, TC and AP all havent been desasters at launch. Please dont spread such misinformations. None of those games had been close to X4 at release.

[Perahoky]

I think Egosoft are just doing what they have been doing since 1999, all of the X games started out similar to x4, bugs, cotnent problems etc. Then after time they became one of the ebst space games around because egosoft was and is very dedicated to updating them.

Why would they jump into early access if this has worked for almost 20 years?

Because early access is new, has a big discount and required somewhat big of feedback management. Things egosoft dont have time for.

We should stop spreading hate but instead help
https://www.egosoft.com/company/jobs_en.php

Sry if i'm wrong.

Egosoft did always a great job, even after XRebirth with big updates.

But now you can make somewhat more dlc's cause we dont have to kill old savegames i think.

Think about beeing more capitalistic

[sd_jasper]

I think Egosoft are just doing what they have been doing since 1999, all of the X games started out similar to x4, bugs, cotnent problems etc. Then after time they became one of the ebst space games around because egosoft was and is very dedicated to updating them.

Why would they jump into early access if this has worked for almost 20 years?

Agreed. TBH, my experience with X4 has been better than I expected. I don't ever expect a game as complex as the X series, developed by a handful of developers to not have bugs at launch. But unlike other developers, ES does a good job of supporting and improving the game over time.

[Perahoky]

I think Egosoft are just doing what they have been doing since 1999, all of the X games started out similar to x4, bugs, cotnent problems etc.

Thats just not true! X:BTF + Xtension, X2, TC and AP all havent been desasters at launch. Please dont spread such misinformations. None of those games had been close to X4 at release.

Youre somewhat wrong:

-Xbtf was a somehwat easy programmed game - compared to X4. Its from 199x !

Xtension shared engine of xbtf
X2 shared engine
X3 shared engine, was buggy, but fixed
X3TC AP shared fixed engine of X3R

You see?
making something completely new and different isnt as aeasy as you think, especially with Xgames.


We should make a kickstarter for egosoft. (thats not a appeal, but a idea)

[Tomonor]

I think Egosoft are just doing what they have been doing since 1999, all of the X games started out similar to x4, bugs, cotnent problems etc. Then after time they became one of the ebst space games around because egosoft was and is very dedicated to updating them.

Why would they jump into early access if this has worked for almost 20 years?

Agreed. TBH, my experience with X4 has been better than I expected. I don't ever expect a game as complex as the X series, developed by a handful of developers to not have bugs at launch. But unlike other developers, ES does a good job of supporting and improving the game over time.

The issue is not with us (with the veterans), but with the general consumers, who are usually new to the series.

They have to be conviced that they got their money's worth. But how do you explain that to someone that "The product you bought full price is not exactly ready for flawless consumption, but it will be sometime in the future"?

[VariousArtist]

Youre somewhat wrong:

-Xbtf was a somehwat easy programmed game - compared to X4. Its from 199x !

Xtension shared engine of xbtf
X2 shared engine
X3 shared engine, was buggy, but fixed
X3TC AP shared fixed engine of X3R

You see?
making something completely new and different isnt as aeasy as you think, especially with Xgames.

Sorry, but Im not wrong. And not even "somewhat". Its rather that you have obviously no clue what youre talking about.

ALL X-games are very complex games. XBTF was even more of a struggle because they needed an engine to support it.
X3 did not share the engine with X2 - there was a massive overhaul of its rendering engine.

Rebirth shares the new engine with X4 - So why has X4 not a polish closer to TC than to the trainwreck Rebirth was? (Actually the level of 'broken' is somewhere between X3 and Rebirth...)
As you see - your statements make no sense. No offense.

[Komuso]

You're obviously a "White Knight", so give it a rest.
Bugs are always a given, but it is "false advertising" to release a game as V1 when it's obviously more like Early Access.

>>When you were born, you didnt get a manual how to live life, right?

That has to be one of the dumbest responses I've ever heard. Completely different contexts and completely unrelatable.

Ooh white knight, sure.
So, there are alot of threads out there with complaints so making another one, OP wants attention rather than stockpiling up in other threads dedicated to complaints.
My funny little illogical comment pairs well with his "imma sue um bois fer not livin up te' ma expectuns".
I see tons of people being really whiny about things nowadays but very few are actually giving advice on how to improve the things that they whine about.
So please, give suggestions with your complaints or sue the company go for it, both would make me happy tbh.

The sue comment was hyperbole, obviously it's hardly worth suing over $75.

However, that doesn't absolve EgoSoft from the fact they have released an Early Access game under false advertising as "ready for release" - no matter what YOU say.

Suggestions? Quite simple really - Don't release ****** games as official releases. They seem to have made a habit of it, and people like yourself have become habituated to it.
People like me (aka new users as other posters have noted) have higher expectations, such that when you pay $75 for a game you get what the advertising says - not a bug-ridden pos without even a manual.

eg:

...

The issue is not with us (with the veterans), but with the general consumers, who are usually new to the series.

They have to be conviced that they got their money's worth. But how do you explain that to someone that "The product you bought full price is not exactly ready for flawless consumption, but it will be sometime in the future"?

People aka consumers aka users have every right to complain if a released product does not meet what was advertised - and they have every right to demand and expect a full refund.

[CaptainX4]

I think Egosoft are just doing what they have been doing since 1999, all of the X games started out similar to x4, bugs, cotnent problems etc.

Thats just not true! X:BTF + Xtension, X2, TC and AP all havent been desasters at launch. Please dont spread such misinformations. None of those games had been close to X4 at release.

Youre somewhat wrong:

-Xbtf was a somehwat easy programmed game - compared to X4. Its from 199x !

Xtension shared engine of xbtf
X2 shared engine
X3 shared engine, was buggy, but fixed
X3TC AP shared fixed engine of X3R

You see?
making something completely new and different isnt as aeasy as you think, especially with Xgames.


We should make a kickstarter for egosoft. (thats not a appeal, but a idea)

and make them to be the next chris roberts why dont you just send over your money every month, that would do the same with even less effort from them

[VariousArtist]

The issue is not with us (with the veterans), but with the general consumers, who are usually new to the series.

They have to be conviced that they got their money's worth. But how do you explain that to someone that "The product you bought full price is not exactly ready for flawless consumption, but it will be sometime in the future"?

Holy, THIS narrative has to stop!

It was a good running gag that Egosoft does releases and makes the game properly playable "somewhat later"! We all had a lot of fun!
But with the development of Rebirth Egosoft has changed!

Pre-Rebirth release Bernd Lehan travelled around and gave interviews where he told everybody that XR is great and not even the vets should be afraid! At a time where he knew that XR would release as a trainwreck! He lied. Openly. For the sales. And against the reputation and respect Egosoft had earned.
That is not any longer the Egosoft we knew for 20 years of X-games!

With X4 they have not returned to the previous quality standards. Egosoft is now more "Sell broken software- because it works, patch up somewhat, add DLCs, rinse and repeat".
And its the "new, general consumers" that make this possible! "Oh, I got burnt? Wont happen again!" *pre-ordering the next broken software*..
This has to stop, imo!

[Komuso]

The issue is not with us (with the veterans), but with the general consumers, who are usually new to the series.

They have to be conviced that they got their money's worth. But how do you explain that to someone that "The product you bought full price is not exactly ready for flawless consumption, but it will be sometime in the future"?

Holy, THIS narrative has to stop!

It was a good running gag that Egosoft does releases and makes the game properly playable "somewhat later"! We all had a lot of fun!
But with the development of Rebirth Egosoft has changed!

Pre-Rebirth release Bernd Lehan travelled around and gave interviews where he told everybody that XR is great and not even the vets should be afraid! At a time where he knew that XR would release as a trainwreck! He lied. Openly. For the sales. And against the reputation and respect Egosoft had earned.
That is not any longer the Egosoft we knew for 20 years of X-games!

With X4 they have not returned to the previous quality standards. Egosoft is now more "Sell broken software- because it works, patch up somewhat, add DLCs, rinse and repeat".
And its the "new, general consumers" that make this possible! "Oh, I got burnt? Wont happen again!" *pre-ordering the next broken software*..
This has to stop, imo!

On my 4th refund request with Steam. I'm going to keep going. This type of business model is unacceptable.

[CaptainX4]

The sue comment was hyperbole, obviously it's hardly worth suing over $75.

However, that doesn't absolve EgoSoft from the fact they have released an Early Access game under false advertising as "ready for release" - no matter what YOU say.

Suggestions? Quite simple really - Don't release ****** games as official releases. They seem to have made a habit of it, and people like yourself have become habituated to it.
People like me (aka new users as other posters have noted) have higher expectations, such that when you pay $75 for a game you get what the advertising says - not a bug-ridden pos without even a manual.

People aka consumers aka users have every right to complain if a released product does not meet what was advertised - and they have every right to demand and expect a full refund.

you are totally right with this, to be honest when i bought x rebirth i was in your shoes, was totally broken, ive hated it and i still hate it, steam refused to refund, then i wrote to egosoft customer service, they have sent me a reply that steam should refund me, ive sent that to steam support and they at least gave me steam credits so i could buy something i like. as others say, be persistent, friendly and considerate, explain things, they have sent me away for like 10 times before ive got the refund, try this way. and i was far over the 2 hours in xr. next time just wait and dont buy anything at release, the reviews will tell you, if you are careful enough, how to approach. play demos if you have, or just watch gameplays with critical eyes. I know this dont help with x4 as you have already paid for it but it can save you in the future

[Tomonor]

The issue is not with us (with the veterans), but with the general consumers, who are usually new to the series.

They have to be conviced that they got their money's worth. But how do you explain that to someone that "The product you bought full price is not exactly ready for flawless consumption, but it will be sometime in the future"?

Holy, THIS narrative has to stop!

I will be honest. I probably grew insensitive to it the past years. I'm probably just unlucky enough to find games from developers, who uses this "strategy" (not sure what to call it) to launch their games.

[Komuso]

The sue comment was hyperbole, obviously it's hardly worth suing over $75.

However, that doesn't absolve EgoSoft from the fact they have released an Early Access game under false advertising as "ready for release" - no matter what YOU say.

Suggestions? Quite simple really - Don't release ****** games as official releases. They seem to have made a habit of it, and people like yourself have become habituated to it.
People like me (aka new users as other posters have noted) have higher expectations, such that when you pay $75 for a game you get what the advertising says - not a bug-ridden pos without even a manual.

People aka consumers aka users have every right to complain if a released product does not meet what was advertised - and they have every right to demand and expect a full refund.

you are totally right with this, to be honest when i bought x rebirth i was in your shoes, was totally broken, ive hated it and i still hate it, steam refused to refund, then i wrote to egosoft customer service, they have sent me a reply that steam should refund me, ive sent that to steam support and they at least gave me steam credits so i could buy something i like. as others say, be persistent, friendly and considerate, explain things, they have sent me away for like 10 times before ive got the refund, try this way. and i was far over the 2 hours in xr. next time just wait and dont buy anything at release, the reviews will tell you, if you are careful enough, how to approach. play demos if you have, or just watch gameplays with critical eyes. I know this dont help with x4 as you have already paid for it but it can save you in the future

Thanks for the advice (and from @VariousArtist ). I'm not a noob, I have 550+ hrs in ED, 600+ in SOASE and many others. I'm used to learning, and as a developer (20+ yrs) I understand bugs exist etc.

However, I am quite shocked by some of the game breaking bugs/behaviours in this release, and even more so they couldn't even be bothered to release a proper manual and help system with it.
That's behavior I would expect (and accept) from a $20 indie early access, not a AAA $75+ price release that has been promoted for a long time.

I've given it 20 hours, seen the plot base appear, learned roughly how it works (by 20+ extra hours of googling because NO HELP) but the final straw was this batshit useless autopilot AI pathing trying to dock on a station. Amateur hour of code for a so-called professional release of a series going this long.

Just give me my money back, please.

If you're happy to put up with them, good for you. But this is not what was advertised, no matter how you might try to spin it.
So don't slag off new players to the franchise who have every right to complain that it's unacceptable.

See also: viewtopic.php?p=4773462#p4773462

[Andrew Gaspurr]

Egosoft have decided to launch the game. We have to deal with it in one way or another. I had a decent amount of frustrating moments in X4 already and I hated XR to be sure.
I love the universe Egosoft have created. Period. I love the story, the quirkiness, the races and the fact that funny things like Spaceflies and Teladianium exist. At the end of the day, Egosoft have always come clean and provided a decently developed game. Wit the late games they didn't seem to have good luck with their starts but the week isn't even finished and we have what? Three patches?

Oh my! Have you played Elder Scrolls or Elite Dangerous where bugfixes take literally ages, depite the companies being considerably larger than ES?

To take OP's point: I don't consider the game "unfinished". It's decently playable in a number of ways. It's quite broad. However, it lacks depth and it does so in quite a few areas, namely information availability, storyline, conflict and economical simulation. Many have pointed out that the game feels empty and that sectors "just exist" but don't have coherence in a bigger faction sense. They don't really contribute to a faction narrative and right now could be anywhere with any name attached. I think Egosoft know this and will work on this.

People will give them the time to do so or they just don't. Since it's mostly a single player game (apart from X: Forum Wars), it won't matter if person x says he'll quit over spilled milk.
X and Egosoft will have their audience and they deserve it. It's a great universe to be in.

My two cents.

[Deeparth]

X games usually release broken. I'm not sure if its about the size of the company or if they think they can cater to the player better by rebalancing according to player input though that doesn't absolve of the responsibility them of game breaking bugs. Maybe a bit of both. What I can be sure about is that they will support their product and every game has gotten much better with time. Even rebirth was pretty decent long after release.

[Komuso]

X games usually release broken. I'm not sure if its about the size of the company or if they think they can cater to the player better by rebalancing according to player input though that doesn't absolve of the responsibility them of game breaking bugs. Maybe a bit of both. What I can be sure about is that they will support their product and every game has gotten much better with time. Even rebirth was pretty decent long after release.

That's called Early Access, it's there for exactly that reason.

[CaptainX4]

Egosoft have decided to launch the game. We have to deal with it in one way or another. I had a decent amount of frustrating moments in X4 already and I hated XR to be sure.
I love the universe Egosoft have created. Period. I love the story, the quirkiness, the races and the fact that funny things like Spaceflies and Teladianium exist. At the end of the day, Egosoft have always come clean and provided a decently developed game. Wit the late games they didn't seem to have good luck with their starts but the week isn't even finished and we have what? Three patches?

Oh my! Have you played Elder Scrolls or Elite Dangerous where bugfixes take literally ages, depite the companies being considerably larger than ES?

To take OP's point: I don't consider the game "unfinished". It's decently playable in a number of ways. It's quite broad. However, it lacks depth and it does so in quite a few areas, namely information availability, storyline, conflict and economical simulation. Many have pointed out that the game feels empty and that sectors "just exist" but don't have coherence in a bigger faction sense. They don't really contribute to a faction narrative and right now could be anywhere with any name attached. I think Egosoft know this and will work on this.

People will give them the time to do so or they just don't. Since it's mostly a single player game (apart from X: Forum Wars), it won't matter if person x says he'll quit over spilled milk.
X and Egosoft will have their audience and they deserve it. It's a great universe to be in.

My two cents.

its as broad as a tetris to be honest but then there are still people playing it

[Phoynix]

People need to stop defending egosoft...
I knew what I was getting into as did many of the people defending them, but that does not make it right, further the option existed to have done this in a far better manner.

Release the game Early Access/Beta for 2 weeks, work like crazy patching all the things the diehard fans find...
Release to the Public ~14 days before Xmass with a far less buggy game and with tutorials already out there on the web to help people, rake in the $$$ as you get over 80 on metacritic.

Both gog and steam support "early access", all the hardcore fans would have still brought and played the game as of now(giving revenue) For Egosoft to last another 2 weeks assuming money was a problem and it was release or bust.


No matter the fact they are known to fix their games, new players who buy this game DONT KNOW THAT, further imagine your a kid with some money saved up and you see X4 and you buy it only for complete lack of documentation and bugs... Do you think you would be happy having spent maybe a months worth of chore money on X4 with no knowledge what you were getting into?

No matter your belief on the game state, the fact is a better way existed to release the game that would have been beneficial to both Developers and Players.

[Perahoky]

... i dont understand these people nowadays.

And i still dont see the problems in X4.
The last gamestar video sees no big problems.
Livestreams are working.
Yes there are bugs, as in every x games, but they will fixed and the game improved.

Its our money which is invested into improvements.
Developers cost money, Developers are requried for improvements.

Every x game got heavy improvements.
XRebirth was heeavy improved.
X4 will get improvements.

Where are the false advertisings?
Every single aspect of the game was explained.

The sale numbers of X4 are about to be on par with Rebirth somewhat soonish. Indications clearly show a trend that X4 will surpass the sales of Rebirth by... well, probably a lot!

Wait, it's going to overtake XR's lifetime sales already?

No, thats ofc not possible in such a short time, with Rebirths DLC releases, sales, etc. But the initial sale numbers seem to be very decent, so my guess is that X4 will sell more units after Xmas than Rebirth did back then. (Especially because of the negative fallout Rebirth earned vs. a 72% user rating X4 has right now).

Sources?