Things that we want and don't want from X3 in X4

[thrangar]

"I do not think he meant time literally as countdown, but as result of monetary/reputation obstacle that just requires time to overcome. And you certainly have influence on how much money and reputation you make. I mean, that's half (or more) of what the game is about after all."




Yes that's what I meant, but and the reason I am so gutted by this is EGO never goes back on a design decision , so this boat has sailed for me!

With regard to scripting I tried and tried for hours, could not even get manager to acknowledge I even had X loaded on my machine...anyways I don't code and don't want to have to learn, I want to play a game!

[MrFiction]

Funny to read this thread. You ask 10 people and you get 5 different answers about what they like.

I'm actually glad Egosoft does their own thing and made X-Rebirth. I started playing from version 4.0 and it runs and plays great. I wouldn't have bought it if was just a prettier X3 game. You need to improve and invent these games. I don't want another version of space Madden (every year the same game, a bit prettier).

[gbjbaanb]

Funny to read this thread. You ask 10 people and you get 5 different answers about what they like.

I'm actually glad Egosoft does their own thing and made X-Rebirth. I started playing from version 4.0 and it runs and plays great. I wouldn't have bought it if was just a prettier X3 game. You need to improve and invent these games. I don't want another version of space Madden (every year the same game, a bit prettier).

Maybe, but there are plenty of people who do want just that - Madden, FIFA etc, all have quite a lot of money coming in from selling the same thing over and over again.

hell, I even bought original games and the remastered versions (eg Homeworld). Would I buy a X3 that had been tweaked to be more modern... oh yes I would. Probably I've done some form of that already by installing a total conversion mod!

[CBJ]

Why not use windows in the sense that Windows understands them? Is it a limitation of Windows like not being able to use full screen & windowed mode simultaneously?

There are technical reasons why this wouldn't work, but a more important factor is that it would utterly destroy the immersion. Being able to move interactive displays within your cockpit might be nice, provided it made sense within the 3D game environment, but then they couldn't be Windows-windows. Making then Windows-windows and being able to drag them around your desktop would dump you back in the real world in a most unpleasant way.

[RAVEN.myst]

There's something in previous Xs and absent in Rebirth that, while used infrequently, is VERY important when needed: the ability to individually turn off specific production modules in a complex - I very much hope to see that returning in the next "numbered X"

[patient zero]

Why not use windows in the sense that Windows understands them? Is it a limitation of Windows like not being able to use full screen & windowed mode simultaneously?

... dump you back in the real world in a most unpleasant way.

I think I understand now. I did some experimenting and discovered Windows cannot open two active windows simultaneously no matter how many monitors you have, and software cannot run full-screen in the background. So, yes. I tried switching between full-screen & windowed mode and kept getting dumped back in the real world in a most unpleasant way.

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

There's something in previous Xs and absent in Rebirth that, while used infrequently, is VERY important when needed: the ability to individually turn off specific production modules in a complex - I very much hope to see that returning in the next "numbered X"

Please could you elaborate on the use case? I can't remember doing that with my complexes in the past.


Edit: Two missing words!

[Nikola515]

There's something in previous Xs and absent in Rebirth that, while used infrequently, is VERY important when needed: the ability to individually turn off specific production modules in a complex - I very much hope to see that returning in the next "numbered X"

I almost forgot about that feature.... People wore using it mostly to manipulate stock exchange and make a lots of money I agree with you 100%.... I would always use it to build up my energy,food or ore before starting full production .

[RAVEN.myst]

There's something in previous Xs and absent in Rebirth that, while used infrequently, is VERY important when needed: the ability to individually turn off specific production modules in a complex - I very much hope to see that returning in the next "numbered X"

Please could you elaborate on the use case? I can't that with my complexes in the past.

Happily (as I sip on a strong coffee...)

To address situations where there is a temporary resource imbalance of some sort. Examples:
- [Narrow Example] In almost every X3(R/TC/AP) game I play, I start off with a complex consisting of two ore mines, using CAG and CLS2 to both buy and sell both ECs and ore. I run it with both ore mines turned off at first, to avoid depleting ECs by production, until such time as I have enough trained pilots in freighters to be able to cope with the extra demand of ECs and surplus of ore. I then turn one of the mines back on, and once that is in equilibrium, I eventually turn on the other. In this particular example, it may seem more lucrative to just sell off the more valuable ore and not worry about the less-valuable ECs at this point, but pure profit alone is a myopic outlook: it is much more useful in the mid- to long-term to make sure the immediate area (say, for example, the region around Argon Prime) is adequately supplied with energy - it stimulates the economy, making desirable products such as guns, shields, and ammo more available, while also helping to better supply ore customers (thus also ensuring better ore profits.) Now while this particular example seems game-specific, the principle applies to any of the X games - sometimes one must focus on lower-tier necessities in order to help strengthen a local economy's foundation.
- In broader terms, if for whatever reason demand for products is uneven (there is high demand for one product of a multiproduct plex, but low demand for another) - say, complex construction is ahead of resource supply for some reason (such as logistic support not yet caught up, or an economic shortage of resources either not yet addressed, or a result of a temporary fluctuation) I may want to make sure production of something is prioritised by turning off other factories (an example of this would be a closed-loop complex, which I don't use anymore but many do in X3 - start off with everything turned off except for the SPP with crystals - once some ECs are available, turn on farms, then once there's enough agricultural produce for the food factories to function, turn those on and the silicon mines, then finally turn on the crystal fabs - progressive, controlled powering-up of a complete prebuilt complex in stages, so that the system doesn't grind to a halt by higher-tier but not yet functioning factories claiming resources away from lower-tier factories.)
- Often happening in Rebirth's economy but not unique to it: let's say you have a bit of a shortage of advanced energy cells, you may want to turn off PlasmaTech (especially since these often get oversupplied on the market, with long periods of low demand) in order to make sure the Fusion Core Fab is constantly operating and not getting starved out by the PlasmaTech (and perhaps even the Podkletnov Fab)
- Another Rebirth example (granted, perhaps less relevant given the greater degree of control the player will have over the composition of complexes in X4) - the Med Dispensary inexplicably gets started with a Pharma Platform - the highest-tier module in its chain. OK, so one builds that first as there is no choice, then works backwards. However, the player may want to have the complex export narcotics (there may be good demand for those, for instance), but the Pharma Platform reserves the majority of narcotics production even with TWO narco-labs in operation. Now, as mentioned, this specific sort of situation is less likely to come up given that the player will now once again get to choose which modules go in and presumably in what order, but analogous situations can (and will, even if only occasionally) come up.
- Also, in situations where a complex of several of the same factory aren't yet getting enough of the same resource to make the same product, some players (me included) certainly prefer to turn off a factory or two to make sure the rest are all working smoothly, rather than taking turns blinking on and off, and showing some sort of distress notification.

I wish I could remember more specifics, but the above likely cover most scenarios - I do however know that I have used the ability to turn off particular factories within a complex on many occasions, with a wide variety of complexes. It's not necessarily an everyday thing, but it does come up. Lastly, and simply on principle, the ability to shut down a particular factory (for whatever reason or justification) is simply an aspect that ought to be under the player's control - besides simply "on principle" (which for me is already a strong enough reason), it allows the player to adjust to expected or unexpected problems/situations/fluctuations.

In general, I think that selective disabling of stations may see the most use in the early game, when a player is operating with limited resources, and that it yields the most benefits at this time, allowing the player to direct how a plex develops, rather than being subject to waiting for a plex's stores to "fill up", perhaps sucking down large amounts of credits for a long time. That being said, and particularly in light of the more dynamic economy that ES are promising in X4, I see this usefulness not being limited solely to the early game, or even to the early stages of a complex's development - a major event, or even some change in NPC-owned stations, may change (either temporarily or permanently) the availability of resources and/or demand for products - the player needs to be able to tweak the balance and priorities of his/her complexes in response, before a more permanent fix of adding a new wing to the station can be effected.

My apologies if some of the points seem (or even are!) repetitive to some extent - I fear I got a bit convoluted there, given how interrelated so many economic aspects are.

Happy hunting!


EDIT:

I almost forgot about that feature.... People wore using it mostly to manipulate stock exchange and make a lots of money I agree with you 100%.... I would always use it to build up my energy,food or ore before starting full production .

Well, while I never used it for SE manipulation (to be honest, haven't even thought how that might be done, as I abandoned the SE after my first couple of X3AP playthrough - I simply don't like it hehehe), your other example is precisely in line with one of the scenarios I've outlined.

[Nikola515]

to be honest, haven't even thought how that might be done.

If I remember correctly if there too much of something in SE radius stock price will go down and there is not enough stocks will go up. So pretty much build whole bunch of ore mines and let them fill up and wait for price of ore stocks to go down. Than turn all ore mines off and the bonds will sky racket. Sell them and keep doing the same thing all over again. It is pretty much and exploit if you want to get rich fast...

[RAVEN.myst]

to be honest, haven't even thought how that might be done.

If I remember correctly if there too much of something in SE radius stock price will go down and there is not enough stocks will go up. So pretty much build whole bunch of ore mines and let them fill up and wait for price of ore stocks to go down. Than turn all ore mines off and the bonds will sky racket. Sell them and keep doing the same thing all over again. It is pretty much and exploit if you want to get rich fast...

Well, I pretty much consider the whole stock exchange to be an exploit and have long ago stopped using it for that reason (it makes money MUCH too easily - I like to feel that I've "earned" the credits, in some manner.) But thanks for the info anyway

[dreamer2008]

If you create an empire building game as complex as X3 + Litcube with prettier graphics, better ship combat, improved missions and plots, with superior voice acting, and new but similar music, it will be amazing.

[kidfusion3000]

bring back the gryphon sentinel. and the Fenrir. and the Valhalla. and well... most of the ships from X3, they were cooler looking than XR.

but mostly the gryphon sentinel.

[RAVEN.myst]

bring back the gryphon sentinel. and the Fenrir. and the Valhalla. and well... most of the ships from X3, they were cooler looking than XR.

but mostly the gryphon sentinel.

Ah, good taste! When I play as Argon, I often use it as my personal "mobile home".

[kidfusion3000]

this is probably in here somewhere but I want my vote recorded. no unshielded capital ships for ridiculous boarding. honestly after I boarded that destroyer in the first 15 mins in the game I never played XR again. no military shipright would in a million years design a ship that could be boarded so easily.

bring back X3 boarding.

[RAVEN.myst]

honestly after I boarded that destroyer in the first 15 mins in the game I never played XR again. no military shipright would in a million years design a ship that could be boarded so easily.

To be fair, that was not a normal boarding operation in XR, it was a tutorial to introduce the player to the very basics, with LOTS of training wheels. Even boarding the smallest and weakest of freighters is a boatload harder than that Taranis "liberation" - you have to contend with the weapons shooting down your marine pods en route unless you disable them, and you have to weaken the ship's boarding resistance, which almost always means taking down the shields and then whittling away at the hull - sometimes this last part can be a bit tough if there's a high-skill engineer on the ship. You also have to watch out for the engine or JD being fixed, because if it does, the ship might escape... And if your boarding strength is too low compared to the ship's boarding resistance, expect casualties. To put it simply: that particular mission is nowhere near anything even remotely resembling being at all vaguely reminiscent of being in the slightest bit representative of an actual boarding operation.

EDIT: typocide
Ha! For once, I'm da ninja!

[RainerPrem]

this is probably in here somewhere but I want my vote recorded. no unshielded capital ships for ridiculous boarding. honestly after I boarded that destroyer in the first 15 mins in the game I never played XR again. no military shipright would in a million years design a ship that could be boarded so easily.

bring back X3 boarding.

Hi,

a) capping the Taranis is basically part of the game tutorial.
b) they told you that the ship's defenses had been disabled earlier
c) In my case the whole zone was infected by fighter drones sent after me from not less than three PMC Suls. And no HoA ship came to my help. It was not that easy.

cu
Rainer