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Jonzac
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Post by Jonzac » Wed, 6. Sep 17, 06:38

Falcrack wrote:BBS was stupid. Just my opinion though.
+1. Hater having to land on a station to find any mission. Getting rid of was one of best thing on X3

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Killjaeden
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Post by Killjaeden » Wed, 6. Sep 17, 07:57

in X3 TC and AP i never learned anything about the races. I propably could have if i would have stepped into the encyclopedia. But this is "extra". The BBS board in Reunion tied gameplay, information (what god has been doing), and some fluff together. Everything i know about the races came from the BBS, essentially.
+1. Hater having to land on a station to find any mission. Getting rid of was one of best thing on X3
Make the BBS available from inside the ship, when in broadcasting distance of stations. Problem solved.
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ZaphodBeeblebrox
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Post by ZaphodBeeblebrox » Wed, 6. Sep 17, 08:51

I think there should be a board on the station platforms.

It could display economic data from the station you are on.
Also production schedules.

Add any attacks or loss of trading ships and other disruptions to trade.

Something useful and relevant.

Then allow modders to add content to these boards and away you go.
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Sparky Sparkycorp
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Post by Sparky Sparkycorp » Wed, 6. Sep 17, 10:28

Killjaeden wrote:in X3 TC and AP i never learned anything about the races. I propably could have if i would have stepped into the encyclopedia. But this is "extra". The BBS board in Reunion tied gameplay, information (what god has been doing), and some fluff together. Everything i know about the races came from the BBS, essentially.
+1. Hater having to land on a station to find any mission. Getting rid of was one of best thing on X3
Make the BBS available from inside the ship, when in broadcasting distance of stations. Problem solved.
This is of course the approach to missions that Rebirth took so I'm sure it's under consideration for X4.

Rebirth also [re]-introduced proving the player with visual and audio information about races and some galactic goings on via conversations with, and seeing, NPCs on stations. With the comversations being voice-acted it was immersive but became repeated. Hopefully there will be room for development of that info sharing in X4.

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Post by Tharrg » Wed, 6. Sep 17, 13:20

BBS adds immersion but in practice, as a way of finding missions, the X3TC /AP icon approach worked much better for me.

As a forum for giving large scale news like who is attacking who and providing general background on the races and the game, it could be a nice extra.

DaMuncha
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Post by DaMuncha » Wed, 6. Sep 17, 13:29

We need a "filter by" "mission type" "mission area" etc.

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Post by Kitty » Wed, 6. Sep 17, 21:19

Well.
I heard...

"takes armies to code and to translate". Nope. This is nothing compared to a ship model. And text translation is not that expensive (easier to find someone to translate than a good coder).

"better immersion" : sure.

"BBS was stupid" : please define "stupid", try not to include you in the definition.

Seriously ! If it is well done, it can really add to imersion and not bother the haters. And make us laugh from time to time. That said, this is not the killing feature. This is like a good model for a ship. Some find it very cool (and yes, I sometimes fly borons' ships just because they are good looking, even if they are not the best!), but once you're in, you concentrate on speed, manoeuvrability and firepower.

Now, remove all that is not necessary in a game, and you may get nothing, or just the sort of paper you use to pay your taxes. Gaming is not necessary.
Now remove all that is stupid in a game, and you get, at best, a bad essay. Gaming is not serious.
Now, remove all that is expensive in a game, and you get a set of paper with ideas on it (or pehaps a text based game with a poor scenario). Developping 3D games is expensive.

I support those who ask for the return of BBS, just because it is fun, and just because Egosoft do not tell me that I have to choose between BBS and a key feature. If I don't want to read them, I'm sure I'll be able to.

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Santi
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Post by Santi » Thu, 7. Sep 17, 03:06

Kitty wrote:Well.
I heard...

"takes armies to code and to translate". Nope. This is nothing compared to a ship model. And text translation is not that expensive (easier to find someone to translate than a good coder).
All text translations are done by volunteers, so obviously money is not a problem. But time to do such translations it is.

Egosoft have to balance what they can ask of the community, push it too far and people in Devnet will not be able to help.
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ishmaeltheforsaken
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Post by ishmaeltheforsaken » Thu, 7. Sep 17, 03:34

They've pushed the idea of this being the "most dynamic X Universe yet" or whatever, and I think that's AWESOME, but there should also be an immersive way of getting information about what dynamic changes are happening to the player. If the Argon government were to start putting up stations in a new region of space, that's something a newspaper would report on. I shouldn't have to have a ship of my own in the area to learn about it.

BBS is a good way of providing that information to us. Football Manager has some procedural text generation for news articles based on actual events that occur in the simulation. Something similar could be used here. I think it would be really cool. The BBS is the thing I missed most in Terran Conflict.

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Ketraar
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Post by Ketraar » Thu, 7. Sep 17, 11:09

No BBS is fluff that has ZERO impact on the universe, its a task that requires a lot of work for (arguably) little gain. Its worse than the fly all ships thing, its time and resources I rather have spent in things that are actually meaningful.

If people think its not that big of a deal then they can fire up their writing and modding tools and add it. I mean its just text right? :roll:

MFG

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Skeeter
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Post by Skeeter » Thu, 7. Sep 17, 12:45

If a BBS was fluff then why did egosoft do it in x2 and people liked it enough to want it to return. Surely egosoft since they did it before sees value in it.

A game that just has the basics without extra quality of life features make for dull games. So what if it doesn't do anything for you, I liked reading stories, finding missions etc from my time in x2 via the BBS.

Edit: edited a line out as may have came off strong, sorry.
Last edited by Skeeter on Thu, 7. Sep 17, 15:06, edited 1 time in total.
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CBJ
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Post by CBJ » Thu, 7. Sep 17, 13:22

Skeeter wrote:If a BBS was fluff then why did egosoft do it in x2 and people liked it enough to want it to return. Surely egosoft since they did it before sees value in it.
It was done in X2 because it was one of those things that came up frequently on the forums as a requested feature, and there was a groundswell of volunteer support offering to provide ideas for the news articles. We took up that offer, and players submitted a huge number of articles.

What we underestimated was the amount of work involved in sorting through those articles, correcting them and ensuring that they fitted the available space, checking that they didn't cause problems with the lore, formatting them correctly, and then translating them and doing several of those same things all over again in the translated languages. Some of the work was done by volunteers, but volunteers' time is limited too, and we had plenty of other things that they could have been helping us with. But having committed to it, we saw it through.

Ironically, when it was all done, there was mixed feedback from the very people who had requested the feature, with the predominant refrain being that, despite there being literally hundreds of these news articles, they were boring and repetitive. The practical result was that any given player usually read a handful of them in the first hour of playing the game, and then ignored them.

Some people suggested, quite reasonably, that the news would be more interesting if it was "relevant", but that would have required an even more vast amount of work, determining the events that should be reported as news, developing the ways to detect those events and trigger the corresponding news articles with the right names and locations in them, then sourcing (and filtering and translating) corresponding articles to ensure there were enough of a range of reports for each case to stop it from getting repetitive again.

So yes, we saw value in it, but we learned from experience that in a game that people play for 100s of hours, generating enough material to make a news system interesting, let alone both interesting and relevant, provided poor value (to players and to us) for the amount of work required.

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Post by Kitty » Fri, 8. Sep 17, 00:24

Many thanks CBJ for your answer.
Well... I think that in X4 things can get a little different. About volunteers, you may or may not find enough. eg: I could write a dozen of them (french and uk)...

But, since X4 economic is more consistant, with factions having strategies and building/destroying stations, you could have generic messages like
"[companyname] company of [faction] built a new [extention] to its [factory type] in sector [sectorname]. CEO explains that [reason]"
[reason] could be: lowering of threats / increase in demand / global strategy / whatever.

With that, the player may get valuable information. Optionnaly, since these informations are valuable, player may have to pay a fee per hour to get them (just stop to pay and don't get bothered) and its map would be updated upon reading the news.

Just an idea... ;)

I wish all of you Egosoft guys a good deal of pleasure coding X4.

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Post by Sparky Sparkycorp » Fri, 8. Sep 17, 00:43

Would the children of the Argon Great Grandmother by the name of Suzie please pick her up at the casino in [Sector], thank you!
Split in [Sector] say "...aaaarrrggghhh!"

RainerPrem
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Post by RainerPrem » Fri, 8. Sep 17, 06:40

CBJ wrote:
Skeeter wrote:If a BBS was fluff then why did egosoft do it in x2 and people liked it enough to want it to return. Surely egosoft since they did it before sees value in it.
It was done in X2 because it was one of those things that came up frequently on the forums as a requested feature, and there was a groundswell of volunteer support offering to provide ideas for the news articles. We took up that offer, and players submitted a huge number of articles.

What we underestimated was the amount of work involved in sorting through those articles, correcting them and ensuring that they fitted the available space, checking that they didn't cause problems with the lore, formatting them correctly, and then translating them and doing several of those same things all over again in the translated languages. Some of the work was done by volunteers, but volunteers' time is limited too, and we had plenty of other things that they could have been helping us with. But having committed to it, we saw it through.

Ironically, when it was all done, there was mixed feedback from the very people who had requested the feature, with the predominant refrain being that, despite there being literally hundreds of these news articles, they were boring and repetitive. The practical result was that any given player usually read a handful of them in the first hour of playing the game, and then ignored them.

Some people suggested, quite reasonably, that the news would be more interesting if it was "relevant", but that would have required an even more vast amount of work, determining the events that should be reported as news, developing the ways to detect those events and trigger the corresponding news articles with the right names and locations in them, then sourcing (and filtering and translating) corresponding articles to ensure there were enough of a range of reports for each case to stop it from getting repetitive again.

So yes, we saw value in it, but we learned from experience that in a game that people play for 100s of hours, generating enough material to make a news system interesting, let alone both interesting and relevant, provided poor value (to players and to us) for the amount of work required.
Hi,

this answer should really become a FAQ text to stop those recurring pleas. It confirms what I thought about that as well.

That's basically the same with the repetitive Smalltalk in XRebirth. Nice in the first hours of the game...

cu
Rainer

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