[MOD] Miscellaneous IZ Combat Tweaks

[w.evans]

12.December.2015 - Miscellaneous IZ Combat Tweaks updated to v0.55

- Return of the UniBar! Thank you again to UniTrader for the code that led to this, and to Egosoft for making it so that (ab)using these characters to print the UniBar no longer corrupts the save file.
- An internal change in the X:R 4.0 Beta that allows searching for class.null broke the filter that was filtering out alerts from pilots of player-owned small ships and drones that get in trouble OOZ. This has been fixed.
- Captains of player-owned capships and managers of player-owned stations that are destroyed OOZ have now set automated messages to send you the moment that they die. Unlike other alerts, these will be printed to your logbook.

[Ragemaster9999]

Is there a way to set certain factions as friendly and to not engage? it seems that when there is large amounts of capitals shooting eachother in a battle there is a potential for friendly fire which often create a situation where a friendly faction turns into an enemy in the span of about 10 seconds... Hey i was at allied with argon government now Im -30 awesome.

[w.evans]

Not at the moment, no. You can set:

• if ships are authorized to engage other than to defend themselves (order captain to patrol or attack),
• if ships are authorized to launch combat drones (set defence officer to manage drone resupply),
• if stations are authorized to launch combat drones (set defence officer to attack),
• and if Balors are authorized to fire torpedoes (set defence officer to attack AND manage ammo resupply)

And if working with squadrons, these authorizations will be set for the whole squadron if set to the squadron's commander's defence officer.

[Marvin Martian]

may it possible to check at start all ships inside the zone to create a list of fractions that relation is 0 or better
and between/after the fight you check those factions about there status and in case, send your apologies! (remove negative boost at the ship/faction to come back into a not enemy relationship)

could be also duct-taped to the (broadcast) withdraw order

[Ragemaster9999]

Found the trigger point, its the balors torpedos blowing up causing aoe colaterla damage.

Speaking of balor torpedos, how come they dont go in a straight line and hit the target? My balor when shooting at a station shoots the missiles and they swing around in a circular pattern and only a handful of torps actually hit the target. Its like the missiles are trying to circle around the station to hit a certain part of it but they lack the turning radius to.

[w.evans]

Its like the missiles are trying to circle around the station to hit a certain part of it but they lack the turning radius to.

They probably are. While Balors aren't supposed to fire torpedoes unless they're pretty well zeroed in, they aim at station modules when fighting stations, not the station itself. Problem is that stations have complicated geometry, so it could very well be that they're pointed straight at the module that they're shooting at, have a clear shot, but the rest of the station's getting in the way of the torpedo's actual path.

And, yeah

Found the trigger point, its the balors torpedos blowing up causing aoe colaterla damage.

That's why setting up a way to control when they're authorized to fire was so important. I like it that way, though. You have to think about how and when to use them.

@Marvin, sorry for the late reply. I am looking into it, but unfortunately don't have a lot of time these days.

[Ezarkal]

Not at the moment, no. You can set:

• if ships are authorized to engage other than to defend themselves (order captain to patrol or attack),
• if ships are authorized to launch combat drones (set defence officer to manage drone resupply),
• if stations are authorized to launch combat drones (set defence officer to attack),
• and if Balors are authorized to fire torpedoes (set defence officer to attack AND manage ammo resupply)

And if working with squadrons, these authorizations will be set for the whole squadron if set to the squadron's commander's defence officer.

Thanks for that info. I've recently installed the mod, and up to now balor not firing and arawns not using drones were my 2 major problems.

Do balors use missile supply in this mod? Or is it unlimited supply like vanilla? If they use missile supply, must they absolutely reload at a shipyard, or is it done through another mean?


Up to now, I like what I've seen with this mod!

My only comment would be those "tactical movements logs" are more annoying than useful. For example, I receive message that tells me my ship is tactical-jumping into combat range. So what? 1- It's what it's supposed to do, 2- I can't stop it in time even if I want to (due to XR "wonderful" micromanagement capabilities), and 3- it takes precious radar display time, especially if I have 10 ships in combat who perform these maneuver.

Then again, it's only a personal opinion, and I can live with it. The mod is great!

[w.evans]

Do balors use missile supply in this mod?

No. Which is unfortunate, in my opinion.

My only comment would be those "tactical movements logs" are more annoying than useful.

Reason I put that in is so that you know what your captains are trying to do, and so that you can gauge how well they did it (because they aren't all good at it, and they don't always succeed).

This can be particularly useful if you put captains who are bad in a squadron under the crew of a MICT ship, because the bad crew will also try to run MICT and will probably suck at it. I find that scenario fun, actually.

However, it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other since I have it set up differently in my personal version of the mod. Is there consensus on this? I seem to remember Sparky, Scoob, and a couple other people liking it a while back. Is it now more irritating than it's worth?

If there's a clear consensus on this matter, I'll do that no problem.

Glad that you're enjoying the mod!

[w.evans]

19.December 2015 - MICT_supp2 updated to v0.48

Surprised no one spotted this. Guess there aren't many people playing with Stromvoks.

- For purposes of squadron interaction and rapid response, the Stromvok will be treated as a combat ship.

[beaver1981]

@w.evans
In another thread Marvin Martian talked about adding some kind of double-check mechanism before ships start to move.

and i added myself some additional checks like at the boost behavior, after rotating into boost-direction to check target-distane again
because sometimes the enemy came so close during rotation that the previous calculated position is already outdatet if the ship could now start boost

I think that´s a very cool idea!

[w.evans]

Thanks, beaver1981. I did read Marvin's post in your thread, but didn't respond there because I didn't want to take over your thread with MICT-related stuff.

Yes, that is a good idea. I still haven't decided if I'll go with that, or if I'll drop the rotation move_to altogether and go with a single move_to with boost set to "true" though. Plan at the moment is to wait until the changes to 4.0 settle down, then make the changes. The whole thing works as well as it used to anyway, just not as well as it could.

edit: forgot:

also it might be better not jump/boost/move around and stay in position as long as possible but always nose straight to main-target

At the moment, this is set to <set_value name="$MICT_MinAimDist" exact="this.ship.maxcombatrange.all * 0.5f"/>

If MOCT_supp3 is installed, Sucellus IHC range is 18,000m bringing bug-out range to 9,000m, which is excessive. That gives you a 1km buffer before anything other than a Balor's torpedoes come into play.

However, set it to that because if someone does not have MOCT_supp3, IHC range drops down to 8km, and bug-out range is then 4km. Well into JET/MA range, and coming into Plasma/MA range. Could fix it to a particular distance, but then it won't work very well for something like your Cerberus which uses that behavior but at a closer range.

Effectively, compromise is between modularity, compatibility with any other mods, and absolute effectiveness.

Think it's an ok compromise for now, but am open to suggestions.

[beaver1981]

@w.evans

Plan at the moment is to wait until the changes to 4.0 settle down

Makes sense

Tested combat behaviour with my mod again. Had neither problems with my Cerberus (range of main weapon 7.000m) nor with my Ragnarok (range of HIVI/MA-turret 8.000m). Both turned ther noses on enemy. Ragnarok stays in position out of enemy range firing at enemy most of the time and Cerberus jumped into medium turret range as intended and didn´t show any strange movement patterns.

Think it's an ok compromise for now

Yeah, right.

but am open to suggestions

[w.evans]

Ragnarok (range of HIVI/MA-turret 8.000m). Both turned ther noses on enemy.

Yeah, that's the thing. Since your Ragnarok's power comes from its HIVI/MA turret, it doesn't have to turn its nose to the enemy. Unless you want it to to minimize its profile?

If you do not register it as LR with MICT, it'll face the side that has the turret towards the enemy, providing maximum ability to track its turret towards the target. It'll then use this range set:

Code: Select all

<set_value name="$MICT_MaxAimDist" exact="this.ship.maxcombatrange.turrets"/>
<set_value name="$MICT_MinAimDist" exact="this.ship.maxcombatrange.turrets * 0.3f"/>
<set_value name="$MICT_MaxJumpDist" exact="this.ship.maxcombatrange.turrets * (1.8f - ((this.skill.navigation + this.skill.morale)f / 10.0f))"/>
<set_value name="$MICT_MinJumpDist" exact="this.ship.maxcombatrange.turrets * (0.25f * (1.0f + (1.0f * ((this.skill.navigation + this.skill.morale)f / 10.0f))))"/>

It'll still move to maximum range of its turrets, but will stay there until the enemy is a bit closer than with the LR-specific stuff. (if LR-specified, it'll stay at range until target gets to within 4km; if not, until 2.4km). Unless the retreat range is the reason why you want it to run LR?

Range settings are close to the very top of MICT.move.attack.object.capital, by the way, in case you want to look them up. Might help decide which range set would work best with your ships.

Orientation settings are a bit further in, before the actual movement stuff.

edit: Sorry, just noticed:

Code: Select all

<append_to_list name="global.$MICT_LR_Ships" exact="macro.units_size_xl_red_destroyer_csp_macro"/>

that you don't have the Ragnarok registered as LR. Heh. Forget I said anything.

[beaver1981]

that you don't have the Ragnarok registered as LR. Heh. Forget I said anything. Smile

No, it´s right. I registered the Ragnarok as LR. I think it fits to it´s role I intended it to have to act like a mobile targon tracer... ...in my opinion.
As I tried to explain in my thread the Cerberus goes in for close combat. Yeah, OK, it is also registered as LR, but as I said, it will jump into medium-turret range.
So there is a chance that the Ragnarok stays out of fire while supporting any close combat unit in the battle.
Tested their behaviour in a battle Cerberus + Ragnarok vs. Xenon + large fighter escort and I really liked what I saw.
The Cerberus went in and destroyed many of the I´s turrets and drew most of the fire on it and the Ragnarok added damage. In return the I had the chance to kill my destroyers as the Cerberus was certainly in firing range and the Ragnarok had a chance to be. I saw some retreating and reengaging combat... ...very nice to look at. And quite effective.

Sorry for "misusing" your mod, but I think that adds two ships with special a special behaviour.
With the Sucellus (+MOCT_supp3) you already have an ultra-long-range unit, the Stromvok is more the "normal" battle-ship, and now you have the Cerberus which goes in dealing very much damage with its primary weapon and potentially destroying turrets and shields with it´s medium turrets, and the Ragnarok acts like a supporting unit adding additional damage.

This might not be what you inteded your mod for, but I think it works out quite cool also in terms of balance.

I don´t want to change your scripts because I want it to be reproduceable for other people... ...but I played a bit with the range of the HIVI/MA-turret on the Ragnarok to have a bigger chance to stay out of fire.

As I understand it a ship jumps to somewhere between $MICT_MinAimDist and $MICT_MaxAimDist. If my HIVI/MA has a range of 9500m and my enemy´s medium turrets have a range from 6210m (Xenon) and 7040m (plasma-emitter) my ship will have the chance to be out of fire for a while or not. I think that´s fair in terms of balance.

It´s just another concept of using your mod and using ships. And I think the possibility to do that is very cool.

p.s.: minimizing it´s profile... ...didn´t think of that, but might be some nice side effect

[w.evans]

Sorry for "misusing" your mod, but I think that adds two ships with special a special behaviour.

Not at all! If it works, then by all means!

As I understand it a ship jumps to somewhere between $MICT_MinAimDist and $MICT_MaxAimDist.

When on approach, jumps/boosts/moves to somewhere between $MICT_MinJumpDist and $MICT_MaxJumpDist,

then they stay there as long as the target is within $MICT_MinAimDist and $MICT_MaxAimDist. So in this case:

If my HIVI/MA has a range of 9500m and my enemy´s medium turrets have a range from 6210m (Xenon) and 7040m (plasma-emitter) my ship will have the chance to be out of fire for a while or not. I think that´s fair in terms of balance.

Assuming 5/5/5 captain and fighting another capship, if the ship is registered LR:

it'll jump/boost/move to between 5,700 meters and 8,550 meters,
and orient its front towards the target.
It'll stay there as long as the target is between 4,750 and 9,500 meters.

If the ship is not registered LR:

it'll jump/boost/move to between 4,750 meters and 7,600 meters,
and orient the side where it's BFG is located.
It will stay there as long as the target is between 2,850 and 9,500 meters.

That's why I suggested not to register it as LR. Because it'll orient the side where the gun is towards the target and will be able to track the gun towards the target more effectively without having to change position. (Should then be more effective than a Targon Tracer!)

Then again, it will be in somewhat closer range. And there is the lower profile.

Marvin did mention that there's something weird going on with orientations in general since 4.0 started beta. Might have been fixed in the meantime. Haven't opened up DeVries yet in my current game, so haven't tested myself yet.

[beaver1981]

Argh!

Forget it. You where right! There was a misspelling in my md script...
...corrected it -> tested -> not working.

Not registering Ragnarok as LR.

[beaver1981]

Argh!

Forget it. You where right! There was a misspelling in my md script...
...corrected it -> tested -> not working.

Not registering Ragnarok as LR.

That's why I suggested not to register it as LR. Because it'll orient the side where the gun is towards the target and will be able to track the gun towards the target more effectively without having to change position. (Should then be more effective than a Targon Tracer!)

Yeah, and that is what it did all the time...

[w.evans]

Cheers! It happens.

[beaver1981]

Yeah, but thank you for that conversation. Enjoyed that.

[w.evans]

Anytime. That was fun.