XR vs X4

[Slashman]

You mean like have the game generate them on the fly procedurally?

That would be interesting. I'm all for more points of interest.

Isn't for example Skyrim a good example why procedurally created missions is a bad idea? The Witcher 3 has handcrafted quests and it really shows and feels but of course required lots of work.

They wouldn't all be procedurally generated. Skyrim didn't have all procedural missions. There were faction questlines as well as personal quests from NPCs in addition to the main questline.

In a space game, I think it would make more sense for procedural missions if the content structure was there so interesting missions could be created.

[Nanook]

You mean like have the game generate them on the fly procedurally?

That would be interesting. I'm all for more points of interest.

Isn't for example Skyrim a good example why procedurally created missions is a bad idea? The Witcher 3 has handcrafted quests and it really shows and feels but of course required lots of work.

And makes for much less replayability. Once you play a handcrafted mission sequence, the second and succeeding times you do it it's just a matter of rote gameplay, following known steps to get to the end. I'd bet most of the Rebirth players who play the plot do so only two or three times before going to free play mode.

[grayx]

Read some, didn't read the whole thread, so I don't know is it mentioned already, but here is my 2c.

As for XR, there are obviously a lot of people who like this kind of gameplay and the style of play. But, it's not all in graphics, awesome ship models or weapons. I don't want to beat the dead horse but it would be immature by now to deny that wast majority of x3/tc/ap are feeling somewhat betrayed by the "streamlining" changes about core mechanic of the series. We all know what they are. If XR belongs to the series at all - which is legitimate question. In any case, wast majority of us who like the old games, would like to see changes in core elements, which is hard if not impossible with XR. In XR, for ones, some things are, at best a bug or a design flaw, for others (mostly new ones) that's a feature.

That's why I would like to see X4 made. Based on x3 but using "good things" from XR, slow game with bust of action from time to time, complex RDBS based economy and social interactions, actual AI (crucial for this type of game) which works for a change and implementing now famous procedural events/quests/sectors. If used with good measure, it could do wanders for the game's replayability value.

I would like to feel again that emotion of unknown, exploration and surprisement while I'm exploring, fighting or building. And, frankly I'm not feeling that in XR. Maybe at the start for coupe of hours... Look at XRM, X-tended or LU. Same old engine but with new ideas gave real rebirth to the game.

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

If they build X3 with the XR engine then I for one will not buy the game.

I do not play any of the previous games why? After several thousand hours I am bored to death with them.

For me Rebirth was a breath of fresh air. Yes there are a number of things I find tedious and not fun in the game. However these are completely outweighed by the number of things I can enjoy.

I also think that there are a lot of things that can be added in to make the game even better.

I don't want to go back to space in a box with jump gates at either end.
I don't want to watch the stupid AI trying to negotiate those gates ever again.

[Slashman]

If they build X3 with the XR engine then I for one will not buy the game.

I do not play any of the previous games why? After several thousand hours I am bored to death with them.

For me Rebirth was a breath of fresh air. Yes there are a number of things I find tedious and not fun in the game. However these are completely outweighed by the number of things I can enjoy.

Well it was kind of a fart for a number of others. Also, I can't imagine that they would ever try to shoehorn in X3 into the new engine as a direct conversion, even if that were feasible from a coding POV.

I also think that there are a lot of things that can be added in to make the game even better.

I seriously doubt they are looking to make another Rebirth. Something for which I am profoundly thankful. I also doubt there is going to be a large amount of new content for Rebirth going forward.

I don't want to go back to space in a box with jump gates at either end.
I don't want to watch the stupid AI trying to negotiate those gates ever again.

You mean the AI they claimed to have fixed and made all better in Rebirth?

In any case, I'll wait and see what they come up with. I have serious doubts going forward but I hope I'm wrong.

[Luanda]

I don't want to watch the stupid AI trying to negotiate those gates ever again.

lets see Stupid AI check, trying to negotiate check, gates check...
what makes this better than X3? The superbouncy crafts which at least don't explode on collision? check

[Aken_Bosch]

Credit where credit's due, in X3 at least ships were able to pass through gates without a hitch mostly...in XR sometimes it seems that where we see a gate, the AI sees an hypercube projected in a Calabi-Yau space and tries a multi-dimensional approach to maneuvers through space and time itself...that from our limited three-dimensional space, we perceive as ships doing innatural turns, standing still for minutes then turn the opposite way to the "right" direction, or directly crossing one through the other...

Jokes aside, the AI is probably the main thing remaining putting me off most of the time...when ships behave as they should, fights and even simple travel from a place to another are a joy to watch...then, it happens that my Tarans arrives in zone, bumps the enemy at boosting speed and sends it tumbling to the outer-verse, all the while zooming back and forth in complete disregard of the law of physics...and all this while my Raptor, arrived on the opposite side of the zone, is taking several minutes to just doing a 180°, only to start to cover 60 km of space at 25 m/s

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

AI in X3

Capital Class ships: while in sector
Undocks from station BOOM.
Trys to negotiate asteroid field, 30 minutes of useless circling, then BOOM

Fleets in battle, ramming friendly ships then BOOM.

The list goes on...

[Luanda]

AI in X3

Capital Class ships: while in sector
Undocks from station BOOM.
Trys to negotiate asteroid field, 30 minutes of useless circling, then BOOM

Fleets in battle, ramming friendly ships then BOOM.

The list goes on...

yes, and this doesnt happen in xr because they just turned off collision. perfect. thank... now we can bounce like a ball on everything or get bumped through the other objects hull and get stuck inside.

[pref]

XR pathing is much worse then X3 imo.
Ships take much longer to get anywhere (esp if gates or refuels are included), and all my ships would have been dead within the first couple of hours of usage if collision damage wasn't off. Path-etic..
Even an ordinary freight transfer resulted in complete shield loss for both parties when i last tried.
Since i continued my last AP save, i lost no ships in collisions except when i rotated my Kyoto into a gate frame accidentally.

[Slashman]

AI in X3

Capital Class ships: while in sector
Undocks from station BOOM.
Trys to negotiate asteroid field, 30 minutes of useless circling, then BOOM

Fleets in battle, ramming friendly ships then BOOM.

The list goes on...

Yeah they didn't fix that, they just made the ships invulnerable to collision damage. So they're still stupid, just magically protected from the consequences of stupidity. See, they totally fixed the AI and pathing issues from X3. XR is so much better...

[spankahontis]

AI in X3

Capital Class ships: while in sector
Undocks from station BOOM.
Trys to negotiate asteroid field, 30 minutes of useless circling, then BOOM

Fleets in battle, ramming friendly ships then BOOM.

The list goes on...

That happened to me too many times to laugh at.
When you have spent a fortune on an Osaka and Armed it to the hilt only for it to explode when it undocks.

Really does put a cramp on your day.

[gbjbaanb]

AI in X3

Capital Class ships: while in sector
Undocks from station BOOM.
Trys to negotiate asteroid field, 30 minutes of useless circling, then BOOM

Fleets in battle, ramming friendly ships then BOOM.

The list goes on...

Itsa not so much a problem with the AI but with the silly designers who made ships so big and/or unwieldy that they didn't really fit in the docking cradles/bays. If the ships were more sensibly designed, without the spiky bits or huge flanges, then this wouldn't be a problem.

[Gravebringer]

What i like to see is:

- Walking on planets and stations
- Actice NPCs that are moving and doing something
- Stationadvertisements and dialogues like: the little jimmy waiting for his mom in the dockingbay
- i will follow the production steps in and out the station and see how it get into my ships
- Random actions in the universe ( meteor storms ect )
- Claimable Sectors
- Jumpgates and highways, Jumpgates for Systems and Highways between Stations in the big sector
- Highway and jumpgate production in the Shipyard to creat own systems/sectors
- building on Planets. A house or other things perhaps the HQ and the possibility to change the politics to make war/peace between factions
- all of X, X2, X3 XTC and X AP
- All ships are flyable
- Ships that are very very big
and many other things that i cant write in english^^

[Falcrack]

Care to point out the source of this rumor? I have been looking for it since you mentioned it, but have not found any confirmation of my own.

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... highlight=

and for some clarification
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... c&start=29

Thank you, that's all I wanted to see!

[Varek Raith]

I don't want to watch the stupid AI trying to negotiate those gates ever again.

lets see Stupid AI check, trying to negotiate check, gates check...
what makes this better than X3? The superbouncy crafts which at least don't explode on collision? check

In that order.

[Xo3oToC]

How about having a very strong (adjustable for who prefer a more stable universe) enemy that can take over all the sectors if left unchecked like the dominators in Space Rangers (but with a brain). This enemy actually have a strategy, will send reinforcement where it is needed, create traps and try to trick the player, and etc; basically an enemy master mind, or like Phanon Corp but larger scale, or just another challenge or purpose for the player for whose who want one. Presently, I mean X3, Terran, races, Xenon, Khaak, none of them really does much and the player doesn't have much impact or at least no lasting ones in the universe or the wars.

[pref]

@Xo3oToC: this more intelligent faction AI, pathing, and a better UI/fleet management is what i really missed from X3. Pity ES did not get Litcube to help them out a bit with XR design. He has a really nice approach to the sandbox aspect.

lol at that vid Luanda
hilarious.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

I am sorry to burst anyone's bubble but the AI/Pathing in X3 was far from perfect and on balance IMO the X-Rebirth solution is marginally better (still problems but different in nature).

As with X3, to avoid/work-around the more extreme pathing problems you simply leave the area and let the game process the situation OOZ/OOS.

I do agree X-Rebirth still needs improvement in this area but lets not put X3 on a pedestal it does not deserve.

[Slashman]

I don't think it's on a pedestal, but this is one of those areas we were told was fixed and that they needed all this time to get working and it still isn't.