TL;DR =
We are the Split! (scroll to next mesaage)
pref wrote:It was the engine that took a lot of time - the game itself is a different question. Iirc they decided to have station walking only 1 year before release.
I don't know the stories, nor have I seen/played the launch version of XR. Really expect it'd have been much the same for me. I know that I'd not create some bitchy 'I'm done with you' thread like people throw up here from time to time. lol.
They obviously had to start somewhere and build on it. The 'game' and 'engine' isn't something that neccesarily remain as descrete parts. How that relationship begins, planned, developed can surly change, particularly in specialized applications like X which may be churning totally custom code.
Some of you may recall that once upon a time Internet Explorer was a mere, normal application that could be installed and fully uninstalled. That's a example of how an 'engine' can come to rely on options, mutate and become quite a bit more complicated as code evolves. In contrast, working with an 'engine product' it certainly could be as simple as stripping out and/or replacing without major implications.
In any event, suppose it was a year on the station walking and FPS features and perhaps other things which came along with it like smalltalk or possibly unimplemented work.. Nonetheless its' cost in planning, money, time, etc is I'd say, substantial and very well could have also consisted of common game/engine code work.
At the end of the day, I'll feel comfortable having expectations as I do with the studio. Seems like a much better approach than making a list of all the things which I'd add/remove with the game as if the world revolved around me... I really did hate it when I figured that out.
Egosoft has been making a somewhat niche game for, what 20+ years now? I'd feel foolish telling them how to run their business or make their games. If there is any inspiration in the forums developers read and feel like using, great. If they ever desire make a custom game for the vocal crowd and/or fans that gathers here or there, that's their business. They've proven to be able to make a living making fun games, supporting them and drive on.. and with XR drive on through rough weather.
There's a few recent games on steam that had huge criticism, poor sales, last ditch price plummets and studio is vapor now. Egosoft is still here and working. This is all a good sign and I guess some bonifide changes since v.1.00 to the game may have come direct from this or the steam forum?
Anyhow, if egosoft continues on and tackles this unfortunate setback with XR, it should make them better. Hopefully lesson learned and the same mistake can be avoided no matter if it was business, technical or both.
I'm hesitant to say it's got anything to do with the vision for XR at all. By all accounts the game apparently did, and even still simply seems to have not been completed according to plan. As such, that doesn't mean a gathering of 'helpers' to instruct them how to finish is needed, wanted or even considered. I'd expect maybe they'll throw us a bone or two based on some constructive criticisms harvested from steam or here.. I'd consider that a bonus.
Early access (steam) might be okay but frankly this forum has always been heavy with information for the taking. I read something here about steam early access and egosoft and assume it's being construed accuratly or not as some customer <-> developer venue..
Steam early access has many projects that go like this: people paying, bitching and waiting and/or waiting and bitching. Retard reviews pile in no matter how big the "this is not a finished product" is on the sale page. None of this should be any mystery. Launches are lackluster since many people with interest have already bought and others have perhaps already decided to follow or ignore the project. Might be good, who knows..
That venue certainly doesn't have any relevance by default on how a game developes or that developer interaction is going to occur.
Granted some good games have survived early access and gone on to become somewhat popular final products. Still can be a slippery slope.
..and the steam community 'forums' are shit IMO as is much of the content. I'll for one never be using them. So if egosoft chooses to really take an interest in crowd feedbackand that's where they choose to do it, I wish them well.
What can happen when loosing portions of control over a vision.. Reminds me of Plan 9 from Outer Space -- despite Ed being blind to the possibility he really didn't have the same stuff as Orsen Wells..
Nonetheless he altered his vision some to please others.
I, along with perhaps everyone here, wouldn't mind sitting and shooting the shit with the developers in a think tank.. Reaslistic? Would it ultimatly make a difference?
The company is named egosoft.. uh, could mean anything.. but I think until they change the company name to humblesoft, and directly influence developement for the loudest voices in the room then I'll continue to not worry so much about how they steer their ship, even if it leads to some port I decide to get off at.
Alternatly, if there is some reality to egosoft developement being held in public forum and crowd shaping in dramatic ways is being considered.. wow! I'll believe that when I see it.
pref wrote:Also i have not seen a single post having to say anything positive about smalltalk for ex. Just because it's already implemented, im not sure if they should force it, and then rely on modders to remove the feature finally.
I find it theraputic to an extent.
..other times I sit here cussing at the NPCs, usually when I am smalltalking though 10+ 2-star engineers and getting impatient.
Forcing it I'd say is a strange way to put it. Nobody is forcing anyone to play XR let alone the mini-game unless the player is a purist and won't use mods. Because a crowd (tiny at that I expect if counting total purchasers) has gathered to criticize parts of the game surly can be noted but it's not clear if egosoft will or should elevate the visions of others equally or even close to their own.
Egosoft relying on modders.. Egosoft is golden to modders, yes. I don't think that they write their games for modders to complete for them though.
The devnet element with XR.. haven't really examined how that works. I get the idea it's probably sort of contract work on code that from another perspective could be considered mods, but these were integrated into the game. Basically unrelated to the context here probably.
Sure some mods in the past used to get the stamp of approval and become 'bonus' mods.. I'd consider that as simple sharing between friends. AFAIK it's been that way with very few IP ownership exchanges, if any.
I can't stand QTE in games. I state it sometimes in relevant discussions but wasting time playing 'me too' with such stuff is rediculous and likely to result in nothing productive.
I bought it, the QTEs are in it and I will probably hate them..
I suppose those were forced on me, eh?
Never found a mod to strip out QTE in the games I can think of.. But then many of those games are projects of mod unfriendly sources, wheather it be the money people or the, er money people, or not.
pref wrote:I really hope that they will spend enough time to work out the details for the next game, and so minigames will be optional or not needed as much as possible.
We shall hopefully see. In a nutshell I generally consider options good. There are games which have trouble presenting (many) options but overall it's a rare day that I could say game "XYZ" has too many options.
Too many games have had options steadily stripped out (or just never had much) as the franchise moves forward. Amazingly, even console games can see a reduction in options from one to the next. ME1 -> ME2 in some ways did this. Guess they confirmed the romantic drama was too hot to not spit out a new ME and quick.
Anyhow, since mods can deal so well with working around base game features people don't want to deal with, or later don't want to deal with -- they are in effect options.
There literally isn't much reason to go on a station in v3.53 if someone doesn't like that part of the game. After a point cash is just not a big deal and so discounts while can appeal to the cheapskate in someone, just doesn't make or break if I'm going to buy a ware or not. Hacking is about saving/making money in part, but what difference does it make once the player is churning out drones or RMP and cash is just a trade away.
This is all part of why I play the plot usually. Gives me something to do next if I am totally bored with all else. I shelved the plot a long time ago at Maelstrom. Keeps PMC as organic enemies, adds a little more consideration to getting in/out of AL and hinders some trade. If I want to fight then it's just a gate away in AL to get swarmed with PMC fighters and all. Plus, oddly enough, I am finding DeVries quite interesting economically. Anyhow, sort of a tangent there.. guess I'll move on to the next one.
If the comminity had a huge boost and XR was a smash hit on launch it's possible we'd have had someone mod in a super mini-game to take the place of smalltalk already.. Say something like farmville or mod in that POS DX phone version.
I have admittedly played DXHR and ME 1/2 and well, they both pretty much rank as "m'kay" with me. In ME1 IIRC, I've never seen such boring stations, vast streaches of silence and NPC 'life' about on par with those on XR stations.
However, in XR I get to chuckle at the "what's with all the AI fuss" and other chatter while I root around or try to find an engineer with more than 2 stars.. have the option to hack the station in several way, find loot and even stuff I've missed -- probably due to the lack of station hacking that I have done so far.
DXHR well, for ME series too.. They're hardly anthing I'd use as 'bar setting' in the industry. Might have felt compelled to play DXHR a second time along with ME1 but linear, or exit door 1,2,3 endings often don't draw me back for another play very quickly. On the other hand, Deus Ex, SiN and others along with thier sequels I have no count on replays.
It was good to have been in Dallas during the hayday.. Doubt that sort of 'AI Fuss' will ever come back around.
) - i just really think that their secretive methods work against us, and another XR like fail might be their last.
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