About 3rd view in Rebirth (only "5%" uses 1st view)

[InFlamesForEver]

Assuming that we already have "VR helmet" for controlling drones, nothing is irrealistic or illogical to assume possibility of 3rd person view. Actually, it would be much more logical to have ships without blisters/cocpits, but with control decks buried deep under layers of armor and shields from which ship is controlled via VR interface.

But I guess Maha Mi was the designer of the control systems for new era, so...

It would make more sense IRL but this is a game so people get what we see in things like Star Trek and Star Wars.

[ajax34i]

Egosoft should be aware that the UI is a huge thing for people.

There's a rather nasty discussion in EVE right now because they're changing one minor thing about the user interface. And Windows 8 got a lot of complaints because of the changes to the interface.

People are very passionate about apparently minor things. Just saying.

[Night Nord]

It would make more sense IRL but this is a game so people get what we see in things like Star Trek and Star Wars.

Yes, instead of making new things and being creative we are making cheap clones in terms of art style, due to fear of market rejection.

[Ratzsa]

So basically asking a fully functional 3rd person for controlling your ship is asking to make the 1st person cockpit view optional.

The two are approximately functionally equivalent if you are asking for a permanent third person view, with full control and access to the game functionality offered by the cockpit-based UI. They are not equivalent, however, if you're just asking for an external camera view and are willing to return to the ship to use the UI. That's not to say that we will definitely offer such an external camera view; merely that it would be a lot easier to achieve.

So will we get an external camera view in Rebirth?

Personally, I would like that. Not too fussed about a functional UI 3rd person camera view, but I would really like to see my ship from time to time. Or just look at other ships without the cockpit obscuring it. But I would only really control the ship from the inside anyway.

[Cycrow]

So who wants to bet that one of the first mods for the cockpit view will be to add centerfold pictures to the bulkheads? For, hrm, atmosphere, of course. Yes all 5 races.

Boron centerfolds??? Eeeeeuuuwwww!

sounds abit fishy to me

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

So who wants to bet that one of the first mods for the cockpit view will be to add centerfold pictures to the bulkheads? For, hrm, atmosphere, of course. Yes all 5 races.

Boron centerfolds??? Eeeeeuuuwwww!

sounds abit fishy to me

Depends on what they are doing with their tentacles

[caleb]

I personally hate 1st person shooters, they make me dizzy... But, I do not have that problem when flying a ship, and 1st person is the way to go for me. I've played a myriad of space simulators, and they have all felt good as 1st person (x-wing, tie-fighter, freespace 2, and who knows how many more).

The interesting discussion would be cockpit vs. no cockpit...

[ragamer]

The view shouldn't be a goal in itself...

...The main issue is what you do with it, and as such we should have both available if there are activities that require it.

Examples:

- 3rd person. Maneuvering through tight spaces like station modules, dense asteroid fields, capital ships "close ups" or dodging long range shots. The focus here is to know were your ship is.

- 1st person. Accurate shots at surface components, efficient long range navigation or tracking targets on erratic dogfights. The focus here is to know were your ship is pointing at.


That's why games that focus on particular activities require also a focus on particular viewports...

...If you take the typical racing game and add forward aiming weapons to "remove competition" as developer you have 2 options: a) You add soft autoaiming and keep the 3rd person view or b) You add a 1st person view so aiming skills ALSO have an impact on the outcome of a race.


So viewports available (or focus on developing them) is not just aestethical, it's also linked to the gameplay and the kind of skills expected to be developed by gamers.


Personally I prefer to have BOTH... As I like to learn and adapt my way to play to the particular activity I'm involved at any time and, ofc, I like games that challenge me with such activity variety.

[jkflipflop98]

I like em both. I could see how a really well done cockpit / ship internals would make me like 1st person even more. They both have their place. It isn't a contest.

[Lord Asmodeus]

I'm still playing X2, with either the cockpit stretched on 2 screens, or one screen with the cockpit, and one screen with 3rd view or 4 views (station, ship, enemy ship, gate).

[Phaser Rave]

I greatly prefer first person mode. Few third person games I've played do it right, and even when they do, I still prefer first person. Here's my reasons why.

Often, and even when done right, the character/ship takes up too much of the screen. In both space combat and other combat games, the player obstructs the view of the combat, and the camera often is positioned oddly, giving me a feeling of it having poorer precision than first person mode.

The rotation is different. Try playing a third person or first person game for a few hours, rotate often, then switch to the other. It's just off. The rotation is always from the center of the character. It takes a moment to adjust from having the camera behind you, which can mean the difference between pwning and getting pwned.

In third person games you can look around corners. This isn't a big deal in space flight, though. I prefer mechanics like in Dishonored, where you can peek around corners in first person by pressing a button.

There's likely more that I have forgotten about.

Now, I don't totally hate it. I do have a favorite third person game, and in X3 I do like being able to see the beautiful space craft, just not when I am fighting.

Third person gives a greater field of view, which can be useful as I haven't got a three monitor setup yet. Unless if your cockpit only allows for a narrow view, as narrow as your computer monitor, then this view is unrealistic. That reminds me, I'm guessing those new VR goggles would be incredible in this game.

[Lord Asmodeus]

It would make more sense IRL but this is a game so people get what we see in things like Star Trek and Star Wars.

Yes, instead of making new things and being creative we are making cheap clones in terms of art style, due to fear of market rejection.

We're only humans. It makes perfect sense to not have windows and use cameras and screens instead. Now suggest that to people for their cars, to pilots for their planes, and nobody will want that. Even the International Space Station has windows, and since 2010 the cupola :

[ external image ]

[Night Nord]

That's not because "pilots don't want it". You know, a lot of tank pilots would be happy to have no windows in their tank, but more armor. And actually thats how modern tanks are made nowadays.

Problem is - our technology is very imperfect yet. There are full-HD, fast and cheap cameras, but they are not military grade. I.e. they are unreliable. You can't replace interceptor's blister with screen and camera - it won't have required resolution, reaction speed and there will be latency between camera input and screen output. In such case, projecting stuff onto the transparent is more effective AND reliable way to achieve same results.

In case of space sims, they are the future, so it's quite logical to assume that said problems would be neglected to the level when latency coming from tech will be less then average human eye reaction and therefore not relevant anymore.

[davelantor]

I like the roleplay, having first person view inside my cocpit with all the light and displays provides me with immense satisfaction ... and as numbers say, perhaps i am not the only one

[Nanook]

That's not because "pilots don't want it". You know, a lot of tank pilots would be happy to have no windows in their tank, but more armor. And actually thats how modern tanks are made nowadays....

First of all they aren't 'tank pilots', they're tank drivers. My brother was one and he'd be outraged to hear himself called a 'pilot'.

Secondly, while there are indeed such external electronic views, if they get damaged and non-functional, the poor tank commander has to stick his head out of the top of the turret to direct the driver, assuming that their particular tank doesn't include a 'window', i.e., a slit viewport for the driver.

So, what do you want, a ship's pilot to be completely blind because his cameras got damaged or destroyed? Every modern combat vehicle has some form of physical external viewport. Even submarines have their periscopes if all else fails. Blinding a combat vehicle would be all too easy otherwise.

[shireknight]

Only 5% use 1st person view? I've played every X-game and the only time I use the 3rd person view is after mounting a gun just to make sure I've mounted it in the slot I intended to, I've never fought a battle in 3rd person view.

[ezra-r]

I love to see my beautiful ship in front of me...

And I'd hate looking at my ass all the time.

Third person has always been more arcadeish... more console-ish...

I can't stop remembering memorable moments in:

Wing Commander Privateer, WC I,II,III...
FreeSpace..
Tie Fighter CD collectors edition.
.
.
.

and one good third person view with controls I ended up hating:
Freelancer.


3rd person view?


Rageee

[nemesis1982]

I personaly only like 3rd person view for RPGs and such. For a racing sim it has to be first person. In the X series the only moment I switch to 3rd person if I want to see the ship or fly a large ship with FAA to watch the flies go poof

I'm curious what your sources are since I doubt that only 5% uses 1st person.

[X-Tie]

In pretty much all simulation games, it would rather be 5% or less that use 3rd person view... As others have mentioned, the only time I switch to external view is when I'm in a larger-than-M7 ship / TL, or when I tow my mines to make sure they are getting towed properly and position them correctly, and sometimes to just admire the ship. And all that for me amounts to maybe 1% of my playing experience...

However, it is of vital importance that you ARE able to switch to an external view, as in certain circumstances it is vital to use that view - for example in capital ship battles to strafe etc. (although that won't be applicable in XR from what I understand).

[assemblerbot]

I voted for 1st person view because it is natural for me. If I see cockpit and possibly part of my ship through a window I feel like I'm inside my ship. Personaly for me 1st person and 3rd person view is the main difference between simulation/role play and arcade gameplay.