[POLL] Would you use Steam for Rebirth?

[daman007]

Even though I own X3 Reunion and X3 TC on discs, I just bought X3 TC and Albion Prelude off of Steam for $5.

I didn't buy Albion before because I thought Rebirth would be coming out ... well that was a year ago so I want to try my luck at the stock market.

[TTD]

I've lost count how many times this thread has been archived,but the ratios to the response to the poll has dramatically become very distinct..

It seems that many now are happy with activation and updates,compared to when I started this thread.
Definitely in the lead now.

If I had the space to keep each computer/system that I ever owned,and was able to keep them maintained and able to run all the games etc that I had on each one,I would be a very happy man.

But lack of support, failed platforms,and upgrading to Newer systems etc,means I am left with just a handful of games I can enjoy on a W7 / 64 system.

I can expect that when Microsoft pulls the plug on W7 ,then there will be even less games I will enjoy playing when this rig dies.

Gone are the days of 32bit computing on an OS that runs on a few megabytes of memory and still have room for a quarter screen size video -clip from some movie or other.
And to think I thought would never need more than the new 1 Gigabyte Hard-drive that I had fitted at a workshop behind the "old" Wembley Stadium,London !

Times change,and we have to move with it or stagnate.

[TEKing66]

Yes, it would seem that they more powerful computers get, the less control the individual user actually has over what and how they can use these machines. It seems that today governments and big businesses have all the power, the individual consumer can either accept what they say or fade into nonexistence.

And so, we all wear our collars and drag our chains made of the all mighty dollar. Then, when those in power ask, we sit up and beg or roll over and then lick our masters hand. And why do we do this, just because they say we must! Because this is the new way of things, because it is what they want it to be.

And this is the reason that I for one will not pay anymore the $20US for any video game that is tied to any account binding software.

[Slashman]

Yes, it would seem that they more powerful computers get, the less control the individual user actually has over what and how they can use these machines. It seems that today governments and big businesses have all the power, the individual consumer can either accept what they say or fade into nonexistence.

And so, we all wear our collars and drag our chains made of the all mighty dollar. Then, when those in power ask, we sit up and beg or roll over and then lick our masters hand. And why do we do this, just because they say we must! Because this is the new way of things, because it is what they want it to be.

I don't think that actually describes the situation exactly. You are talking about people willing to accept account bound software so that they can play games they want to play. It's more about people not really considering software as a permanently owned good, but rather as something that they use in the now and move on from. But then a lot of entertainment is geared this way.

It's a chicken and egg thing actually. Are companies able to use account bound software successfully because they exert force over the consumer, or is it that the consumer is willing to use the software even when there are limitations in place on its use?

Humans are creatures that naturally seek comfort. You have to seriously disturb that comfort level before they will act. Recent uprisings in countries in the middle east tend to point to the fact that people do have a breaking point at which they won't accept everything thrown at them...but you have to push them to that level. It's not always a quick action...sometimes it takes years to happen.

And this is the reason that I for one will not pay anymore the $20US for any video game that is tied to any account binding software.

I haven't bought a full-priced game in a while. Mostly because I like sales...and I'm fussy with my gaming budget.

[eladan]

If I had the space to keep each computer/system that I ever owned,and was able to keep them maintained and able to run all the games etc that I had on each one,I would be a very happy man.

Virtual machines.

Yes, it would seem that they more powerful computers get, the less control the individual user actually has over what and how they can use these machines. It seems that today governments and big businesses have all the power, the individual consumer can either accept what they say or fade into nonexistence.

Linux.

Times change,and we have to move with it or stagnate.

For me, things will change how and when I want them to.

:EDIT: Attributing quotes properly.

[TTD]

If I had the space to keep each computer/system that I ever owned,and was able to keep them maintained and able to run all the games etc that I had on each one,I would be a very happy man.

Virtual machines.

.

erm 3"diskettes ?

Many games available for virtual machines are of questionable origin.

Yes, it would seem that they more powerful computers get, the less control the individual user actually has over what and how they can use these machines. It seems that today governments and big businesses have all the power, the individual consumer can either accept what they say or fade into nonexistence.

Linux.

Although a reasonable platform to work on for productivity, it won't play the latest PC games.

I stick to my point...times change.

Take a close look at your town. How many shops from 1975 are still there now?
Woolworths being a prime example.
I used to find almost anything I wanted within 500 yards.
Most things I bought from said company.
Now I have to stop and ask myself where to buy this or that.
Sometimes it means going to another town!

[eladan]

erm 3"diskettes ?

Pretty sure I mentioned this only one or two pages ago, but most of the games which used them could simply be copied from the old PC to the new one.

I've still got an old PC with 3.5" floppy that I could fire up if needed, but I haven't had a need. I also have digital images of several old floppies, which I can use in a floppy emulator on a PC with no drive.

There are generally ways and means. Some may require forethought prior to old technology phasing out.

Many games available for virtual machines are of questionable origin.

Not sure what you mean by that. Consider that GOG bases their business on DOSBox and older games (legitimately licensed.)

Although a reasonable platform to work on for productivity, it won't play the latest PC games.

If you're going to limit your statement to games, then sure, although even there, there is room for doing things your own way - PC games can be played using WINE on linux, or via bootcamp on OSX.

[TTD]

There are generally ways and means. Some may require forethought prior to old technology phasing out.

And there you have it.
I once patiently transfered a lot of my programmes and games onto a new format....actually I did that to two new formats.
Then I found they were getting phased out and support was expensive.
oh and that was 3" not 3.5" diskettes I was referring to. ( Amstrad 6128 )

Quote:
Many games available for virtual machines are of questionable origin.

Confused Not sure what you mean by that. Consider that GOG bases their business on DOSBox and older games (legitimately licensed.)

I once mentioned games available from a link given by what most people would call a legit company...fully registered and paying taxes etc.
One particular game I was told had not had it's licence put out to public domain,so was therefore of questionable origin .
That thread was locked for obvious reasons.
Since then i have not used the emulator ,which I had paid for,as I no longer know if anything I download for it is legally acquired.



There are a number of games which I would love to play again,but when I do a search on GOG ,nothing comes up.

There are several old games I wish to see available but chances are slim.
But at least there are some programmes and games that are now open source.

[eladan]

oh and that was 3" not 3.5" diskettes I was referring to. ( Amstrad 6128 )

We're getting a fair way off topic here, however:

I've never had an Amstrad, but I know that there are solutions allowing you to connect a C64 drive to a PC to capture a disk image, and there are C64 emulators which will allow you to use those images. I'm vaguely aware that there are similar solutions for other old systems, and likely Amstrad is amongst them.

I once mentioned games available from a link given by what most people would call a legit company...fully registered and paying taxes etc.
One particular game I was told had not had it's licence put out to public domain,so was therefore of questionable origin .

Can't comment on your case, but GOG is high profile and are known to strike deals with publishers to get titles for their site - I'd be very surprised if there are any games they offer which they haven't licensed. But there are always dodgy ways to get games, and there always will be. Just as true of new games as old.

There are a number of games which I would love to play again,but when I do a search on GOG ,nothing comes up.

Here's where I may be lucky, in that I kept all my DOS games, and simply transferred them from PC to PC as I upgraded. I kept a DOS partition for some time after I transitioned to Windows, until DOSBox had matured enough to make it redundant. Many, I've bought again on GOG for the convenience of all inclusive install.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

[OT]

erm 3"diskettes ?

My "modern PC" has a 3.5" internal drive and I could still fit a 5.25" one if I really wanted to (although sourcing it might be a problem - it uses the same connectors afterall). And if your PC does not have internal space to mount one you can always get at least a 3.5" drive in USB form.

As for 3" drives, they were drives used on the Amstrad CP/M based computers (amongst a handful of others) and not on IBM-type PCs to my knowledge.

The point about the use of VirtualMachines is a perfectly valid option for older software, but you do need to pick your virtual machine host software correctly (e.g. VirtualBox has good support for 3D Acceleration and USB devices).

Alternatively, some older software will run under Linux using supporting software such as Wine.[/OT]

How all this relates to the X-Rebirth on Steam debate is a little tenuous though.

In general terms, at some point along the line company X abandons support for older software Y and as a result you may have to think outside the box in order to get it to work on a newer PC (solution is not always elegant or perfect but more often than not it is generally possible).

[OT]WRT to support for media in general, at some point you will probably have realised that software X you wish to run at some point in the future is on an old-media that is going out of mainstream use and have the opportunity at that point to take preventative measures to ensure that you can still run it.[/OT]

The only relevance to all this debate might be if Valve were to terminate the Steam service (which is probably highly unlikely in the foreseable future) or if Steam were to stop working under Windows 8 (currently it does work). The Windows 8 angle has other concerns as well which are well out of scope of this discussion for now.

In such eventualities, there might be a case for concern but IMO such concerns are unwarranted at this time. It would be like saying "don't buy/use product X because company Y that produces/supports it may go bankrupt" OR in short form "the sky is falling"

To be blunt - Steam is alive and kicking (and is likely to still be doing so in some shape or form for many years to come) so any concerns about them stopping you being able to run software you legitimatly paid for a license to use is to my mind being paranoid.

The license transfer argument is a bit of an esoteric one, and if you are seriously considering such an eventuality for an X-series game then perhaps you should be asking yourself why you are doing so? I could understand it for some limited replayability games, but I do not put X into such a category. Even ~10 years after my original play through of the X2 game I consider going back to it and playing through it again.

In the case of sharing games with a friend, there is nothing to stop you creating a either a specific account for each game shared or a single account for all the the games and sharing the relevant account details with your friend.

The arguments about the advancement of technology and lessening of user control is a bit of an esoteric one. Where Steam is concerned it is an enabling technology not a restricting one, in the strictest sense. The only real argument against Steam are the conditions under which you may lose access to said software, but for the vast majority of users such concerns are unwarranted IMO.

[Cycrow]

Yes, it would seem that they more powerful computers get, the less control the individual user actually has over what and how they can use these machines. It seems that today governments and big businesses have all the power, the individual consumer can either accept what they say or fade into nonexistence.

i would say this is more to do with the users than the technology

Back in the earlier days of computing, almost everyone who used them were people who were into computers and therefore knew what they were doing.

as time has gone on, more and more people are using computers, and have less and less knowledge about them.

So its easier to lock things down than to have to deal with all the problems that happen due to thier lack of knowledge

[Rabiator der II.]

Yes, it would seem that they more powerful computers get, the less control the individual user actually has over what and how they can use these machines. It seems that today governments and big businesses have all the power, the individual consumer can either accept what they say or fade into nonexistence.

And so, we all wear our collars and drag our chains made of the all mighty dollar. Then, when those in power ask, we sit up and beg or roll over and then lick our masters hand. And why do we do this, just because they say we must! Because this is the new way of things, because it is what they want it to be.

I don't think that actually describes the situation exactly. You are talking about people willing to accept account bound software so that they can play games they want to play. It's more about people not really considering software as a permanently owned good, but rather as something that they use in the now and move on from. But then a lot of entertainment is geared this way.

Recently, it tends to go beyond software. A lot of hardware vendors are selling devices now that will only work with the official operating system by design. Also, you can install only software from the official app store. Culprits include:

• -Apple (iPhone, tablets, everything except the classic Mac "PCs")
  -Microsoft with the "Surface" tablet and Windows RT
  -to some extent, some vendors of Android smartphones. The OS as such is (mostly) open, but some vendors use locked bootloaders to block installation of other versions.

Of course, there are often hacks and jailbreaks, but not thanks to the hardware vendors.

Steam (back on topic ) is only one of many such lockdown mechanisms. I still don't like it...

[Slashman]

For me, things will change how and when I want them to.

:EDIT: Attributing quotes properly.

Things will change regardless of what you do. I mean you could create a nice retro bubble around your house where all games exist in a non account-bound form and give yourself the illusion that you've done something significant.

Unfortunately, the world will still continue to march onward in the direction it's going to go. And all it would take is an unfortunate accident or two to render all that hard work moot. Because in the end, you aren't going to live forever, and all the physical boxed games you own are going to end up in a dump, owned by someone who doesn't care about them or otherwise forgotten. And no one will really care either way.

It's kind of like Solomon wrote in Ecclesiastes. He worked all his life, built all this great stuff and now someone else was going to own it who never worked for it and wouldn't appreciate it. At the end of the day, its vanity and it doesn't mean squat.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

[OT]

Steam (back on topic ) is only one of many such lockdown mechanisms. I still don't like it...

The only antidote to lockdown mechanisms is mass genocide of all software pirates and potential software pirates.

This is because the software industry as a whole does not trust the software using community to play fair by always using properly licensed software.

Blame the pirates, not the mechanisms.[/OT]

Steam may have lockdown facilities, but it is also an enabling tool you should not lose sight of that.

[Alan Phipps]

OK, move on now. We really should not discuss piracy and its effects/solutions on these forums as it always degenerates into someone saying something they shouldn't and getting themselves and the thread into trouble.

[Nanook]

I've lost count how many times this thread has been archived,but the ratios to the response to the poll has dramatically become very distinct..

It seems that many now are happy with activation and updates,compared to when I started this thread.
Definitely in the lead now...

I think what it really shows is the influx of new players that were already Steam users, as the result of all the sales of X games on Steam. I highly doubt it reveals a change of heart in most of those opposed to Steam-only X games.

The fact that the current X games are pretty much only available through Steam now is why there aren't more new forum users voting against it, I'd guess. So in that regard, the poll has become highly biased and probably not of much value anymore.

[theeclownbroze]

i would buy the super limited boxed edition with all the extras and then activate and for updates with steam

[TEKing66]

Nanook, I would have to agree with your thinking there. Having the games only available through Steam will/has kinda shifted the voting towards a "Steam Happy" crowd. Not to mention that anyone stating they are not "Steam Happy" will, typically, get a little roasted by saying so.

And, while I have tried Steam, and tried to be open minded toward it. I still say that I would much prefer a Steam free version of games verses having Steam powered games. And so, I have not changed, nor would I change, the way I voted.

Not that my opinion really matters to anyone except me.

[Slashman]

Err...the thing is that no one can change the way they voted. Neither the person who is now happy with Steam nor the person who has turned against it.

So essentially, there is no way to tell about people who have shifted in either direction and voted already unless they posted.

[TEKing66]

Which is exactly why I made me last post, to reaffirm that I still fell the same way.