[MOD] [TC/AP] X3 Rebalance Mod (XRM) - Total conversion - v1.30d (02.12.13)

The place to discuss scripting and game modifications for X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

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jack775544
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Post by jack775544 »

yarrick5 wrote:Lol any advice at all on making my Game playable?

The guy whos unable to set turrets to missile defense and use mosquito missile defense gets like 10 answers, guy who cannot play his game gets 1.

I might be slightly biased, but i feel like my issue is, well, an issue.

?!
What other mods\scripts are you running (if any)?

Do you run lots of SETA in your game at high multiplyers (ie. >6)

EDIT: I just had a look at your CPU specs and you should have enough power to run the game without any problems. X is more CPU bound then so a better CPU means a smoother game. And XRM is known to be a resource hog ;)
1940s - Various "computers" are "programmed" using direct wiring and switches. Engineers do this in order to avoid the tabs vs spaces debate.
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Strike-Météor
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Post by Strike-Météor »

well just say it I will try CPU one day with an i5 or i7
DuckSoup
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Post by DuckSoup »

EDIT - Nevermind!
Last edited by DuckSoup on Tue, 1. Jan 13, 23:55, edited 1 time in total.
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DrBullwinkle
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Post by DrBullwinkle »

yarrick5 wrote:I might be slightly biased, but i feel like my issue is, well, an issue.
Low frame rate has been addressed many times, Yarrick. I made what I thought was a pretty good post about it just a week ago: XRM Performance Tips. Have you tried Improved Combat Frame rate as I suggested?

As a sweeping generalization, most X3 performance issues boil down to:

- A poorly-optimized script.

- Too many fancy weapon effects.

- Too many ships in the universe.

The first two are easy to fix. The last one would require jobs and jobwings customized for XRM (similar to Unleashed but made for XRM). I am not aware of anyone having created such a thing, to date.
paulwheeler
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Post by paulwheeler »

The improved combat frame rate mod is not compatible with the xrm. You'll end up with no effects at all for many weapons. Also, many effects have already been optimised as part of the combat mod legacy.

Please read the performance notes linked from the first page of this thread.
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DrBullwinkle
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Post by DrBullwinkle »

Well, I haven't tried Improved Combat Frame rate with XRM, but that is basically what it does -- it disables fancy weapon effects. That is why I only use it during huge battles.

I suggested it, again, to Yarrick, as a diagnostic tool. It will help him to narrow down the cause of his performance issues.

And, yeah, I included your performance notes in my post. :)
paulwheeler
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Post by paulwheeler »

It doesnt work as simply as that. That mod simplifies the vanilla effects, not remove them completely. The xrm has a highly modified effects file that adds a lot of new effects which will be completely missing if you install that mod - engine effects, weapon impact effects, bullet effects, etc. You'll just see empty space.

The main cause of performance issues with the xrm is Expnobody's ships.

I had no complaints before I added them. They are not optimised at all and are a major resource hog. They have too many polys and do not have LODs.

Do people really want me to remove all those new ships?

Personally I do not get performance issues. My xrm game runs smoothly even on 10x seta and in large battles and I don't consider my rig to be uber.
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DrBullwinkle
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Post by DrBullwinkle »

OK, I understand that Improved Combat Frame Rate is probably not ideal for playing the game with XRM. However, it is still a fine diagnostic tool. The only time it helps is during huge battles anyway (100+ ships in combat, In-Sector).

Yeah, we know that you don't have performance issues. ;) However, not everyone in the world has an i7. I was just answering poor Yarrick's question, since he has asked several times.
Last edited by DrBullwinkle on Wed, 2. Jan 13, 01:04, edited 1 time in total.
cjm3fl
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Post by cjm3fl »

paulwheeler wrote:Do people really want me to remove all those new ships?
If you're asking a question...hell no!
--I know how you can make this Mod play like vanilla..
--Play vanilla!
paulwheeler
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Post by paulwheeler »

cjm3fl wrote:
paulwheeler wrote:Do people really want me to remove all those new ships?
If you're asking a question...hell no!
That's what I thought. :wink:


There are better ways to improve performance by optimizing windows, dropping your graphics settings, stopping background tasks, etc. than hacking away at the mod. Antialiasing settings for example can make a huge difference. I use 4x, but if I bump up to 8x I notice a drop in performance. AA eats video ram. Expnobody's ships eat video ram. Hence this has more of an effect than it does with vanilla.
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DrBullwinkle
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Post by DrBullwinkle »

Yep, that's pretty much what I said in the first place. :)

(Good point about Anti-aliasing, so I added that to my original post.)

Somehow I think you must have misunderstood my post, Paul. XRM has too many good features -- I doubt that anyone would want to remove them.
yarrick5
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Post by yarrick5 »

I have a pretty solid machine. I have literally bottomed out my graphics settings both on the game and my GPU, have optimized every setting, shut down processes, and otherwise searched for and tried every solution i found in the net. Ive also reinstalled xrm, and am not using anything else other than sector takeover (the Good One :) ).

The only thing i have been unable to do is a total reinstallation, as i am travelling.

Also, this issue only became pronounced about a week ago, although the Game has been slowing down. Ive only got like 100 ships and 20 stations; in past saves on this machine ive had several hundred stations and over 2000 ships. And the Game ran faster, and i had more mods. This is a different install, hence it Must be a problem with the install.

But what?
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robalexhall
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Post by robalexhall »

Do people really want me to remove all those new ships?
Agreed. But XRM is going to be an i5/i7 only mod if you add much more.

For perspective: XRM FPS drops to 20s in busy sectors and SETA to single figures on core2/amd cpus now.
Last edited by robalexhall on Wed, 2. Jan 13, 04:28, edited 1 time in total.
yarrick5
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Post by yarrick5 »

I might add that my issue with the stuttering is not fps related. Thats whats so odd.
cjm3fl
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Post by cjm3fl »

DrBullwinkle wrote: - Too many ships in the universe.
I think (something dangerous for me) that a long time ago I saw a mod/script that reduced the number of AI-NP ships in the game.
I'm not looking for it, I'm going to upgrade my OS and RAM, but I was wondering if this existed, and not a figment of my imagination, and was compatible...couldn't this go a long way in helping those experiencing drag/delays/freezing situations?

I took a quick look and didn't find it.
It's late and I'm building a few more complexes b4 hitting bed.

My hesitations aren't that bad. I think my upgrades will help a lot.
But I wouldn't mind it sometimes if there wasn't so much "traffic".
I won't mind it if NPC freighters didn't rush head-long into the range of a K, but not my ship(s) and not my cargo :wink:
--I know how you can make this Mod play like vanilla..
--Play vanilla!
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DrBullwinkle
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Post by DrBullwinkle »

I believe that you are thinking of Unleashed.

No, I do not believe there is an XRM-compatible version of Unleashed. Somebody could make one, but it would have to be an XRM-specific project in order to preserve the goodness of XRM enemies (not to mention handling all ship types).
MacrameGod
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Post by MacrameGod »

Ok, I've done a clean install of X3:TC/AP, I installed XRM just as instructed and when I start the game up everything seems fine. I can tell that the mod has taken because it says so on the startup screen and I can see all the new options under "New Game", but when I start a new game it seems to freeze at the loading screen. I read somewhere that it usually takes a long time to load a new game for the first time in XRM, but its been something close to 20 minutes now. How long does this usually take?

This is the Steam version of the game. I have no other mods installed, only XRM.

Windows 7 64-bit
Intel i5 Processor
4GB RAM
nVidia GeForce 550i
paulwheeler
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Post by paulwheeler »

I honestly do not believe that reducing the number of ai ships would make any difference. Most trading scripts and especially the civilian scripts are extremely simply. The civs run a script that just makes them fly from station to station. Its just a couple of lines. Removing them will make little difference and will spoil the immersion factor.

In any case, I think Yarrick5's issue is not anything to do with the xrm. It sounds more like a complex script that's stuck in a loop with a wait command, so its not completely hanging, but stuttering. I suspect only a game restart will fix things.

The test is start a new game - is the problem still there? If not, then the problem is likely script related as they often manifest over time. Issues with mods are generally there from the start.
paulwheeler
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Post by paulwheeler »

MacrameGod wrote:Ok, I've done a clean install of X3:TC/AP, I installed XRM just as instructed and when I start the game up everything seems fine. I can tell that the mod has taken because it says so on the startup screen and I can see all the new options under "New Game", but when I start a new game it seems to freeze at the loading screen. I read somewhere that it usually takes a long time to load a new game for the first time in XRM, but its been something close to 20 minutes now. How long does this usually take?

This is the Steam version of the game. I have no other mods installed, only XRM.

Windows 7 64-bit
Intel i5 Processor
4GB RAM
nVidia GeForce 550i
That is usually caused by installing the cat/dats to the base TC folder not the AP (addon) folder. Please recheck your installation ensuring you follow the AP installation instructions (the second set).
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Jack08
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Post by Jack08 »

paulwheeler wrote:I honestly do not believe that reducing the number of ai ships would make any difference. Most trading scripts and especially the civilian scripts are extremely simply. The civs run a script that just makes them fly from station to station. Its just a couple of lines. Removing them will make little difference and will spoil the immersion factor.

In any case, I think Yarrick5's issue is not anything to do with the xrm. It sounds more like a complex script that's stuck in a loop with a wait command, so its not completely hanging, but stuttering. I suspect only a game restart will fix things.

The test is start a new game - is the problem still there? If not, then the problem is likely script related as they often manifest over time. Issues with mods are generally there from the start.
These "Simple scripts" use some of the most performance intensive commands in the entire game, most notably the "find" commands. These commands are not cheep because in order to find something you need to search for it, the game does this by looping though arrays and tables of data in order to find the best match, sometimes - this is (relatively) instant, but most of the time it takes linear time to complete. The more tasks in the game executing code that has linear requirements, the more performance they take up.

When it comes down to it, the MD and SE are virtually executed languages, who's implementation resides in a virtual machine, whom is executed in C++. So there three layers going on here.

A simple instruction in the SE, say, $i = 1, is far more intensive then it seems.

in order to push 1 to $i, first - it has to process the intent, in this case the intent is clear due to the operator "=", but the problem is there is no simple "set" command within the SE, at least not in the straight forward sense, it has to look-up what operation "=" represents, grab the value 1 from an array, and then assign 1 to the array index that holds $i, all this happens in the virtual environment.

But it doesn't end there, each instruction in the virtual machine has to be processed on the C++ level in a similar manner - the virtual machine is stack based so it can issue the command

ADD Idx1, Idx2

but on the C++ it has to translate that command into something that an x86 processor can understand, so that's another level of translation on top of the SE translation that's already been performed. And because a good 90% of the game resides in the virtual machine (including previously mentioned find commands), this is why many ships in the game has a compounding and non linear performance hit as the number gets higher. The job & god engines only serve to make things worse because they are active engines that do things in real time.

All in all, Performance in X is not something that's straight forward or simple. Unoptimized SE code is very bad for the game if allot of entity are running that code and small seemingly innocent changes have massive unforeseen effects, and the vast differences in hardware only make the problem worse.

And all of this is Before adding graphical rendering on top. The calculations it has to do on every single particle the game spawns is rather crazy, Additive blending makes that problem worse when not using grey/black colours.
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