[X3:AP - Bug Report] Argon Elite - Weapon graphics misaligned with animation.

[Vim Razz]

Hopefully this will be easier to deal with than the MD or projectile impact lag issues some of you guys are wrestling with.

I'm not expecting a personal fix. I just thought I'd bring it to someone's attention:


On the Argon Elite, some of the the weapon animations are currently misaligned with the weapon graphic/models.

pics for clarity:
Slots 1 and 2 are fine.
Slot 3 and Slot 4 have animations that do not align with the model.
Slots 5 and 6 have animations, but no weapon model at all.

I haven't seen any other ships affected by this problem.

[Alan Phipps]

Well while we know it was not a universal issue in TC, some people have seen this before and also something similar here.

Has anyone else had this issue in X3AP in particular?

Out of interest, does changing sectors in that ship refresh the model and so fix the missing weapon graphics?

[A5PECT]

It's just a consequence of how the weapon slots are keyed to the weapon models on the ship. Those two weapon models towards the center of the ship host two weapon slots, but only one weapon slot actually "activates" the models.

If you remember back in X3R, all of the ships worked with a 1:1 ratio of weapon slots to weapon models. X3TC added a bunch of unique weapon models that represented multiple installed weapons. Take a look at the Venti, it's even worse than the Elite when it comes to this.

AFAIK it's just the way the weapon system was coded; I don't think there's a way to make two weapon slots control a single model on the ship. So all you can do is make sure the model-activating weapon slots are fitted out.

Edit: Wait, I think I see what you mean.

[ external image ]

Code: Select all

Firing Position --- Model Key ------------- Fix
____________________________________________________________

1 fires from A ---- 1 keys to A ---------- 1 keys to A
2 fires from B ---- 2 keys to B ---------- 2 keys to B
3 fires from B ---- 3 keys to C ---------- 3 keys to Nothing
4 fires from C ---- 4 keys to D ---------- 4 keys to C
5 fires from C ---- 5 keys to Nothing ---- 5 keys to Nothing
6 fires from D ---- 6 keys to Nothing ---- 6 keys to D

[Vim Razz]

@ Alan Phipps --

I hadn't thought to to check for threads related to TC before posting. oops.

I'd only searched AP threads, figuring it was most likely an issue that popped up when the correspondences between weapon slot and animation/model position ware changed for AP. (The sort of thing that might easily happen if the reordering was handled by a briefly written script/executable geared for 1:1 model:animation correspondences rather than by hand.)

Checking the three installations of TC I've got --
(1) old PC, store box version, crazy mod history
(2) new PC, store box version, tubeless complex & no ad-sign mods only
(3) new PC, steam war-pack version, no mods (not even the bonus pack)
-- they all show similar misalignment on slots 2, 3, & 4 and lack of model activation on slots 5 & 6 (the single-mount positions), only in a different positions. Correspondences in AP are actually better!

And no, the models don't re-set when changing sectors in AP or any of the TC installs.


@ KloHunt3r --

Yup, that's exactly what I'm referring to -- not the lack of model activation for the 2nd weapon on double mounts, but the misalignment between firing animation and model activation.

TC is even crazier (borrowing your slick formatting here):

Code: Select all

Firing Position --- Model Key ------------- Fix
____________________________________________________________

1 fires from C ---- 1 keys to C ---------- 1 keys to C
2 fires from C ---- 2 keys to B ---------- 2 keys to Nothing
3 fires from B ---- 3 keys to D ---------- 3 keys to B
4 fires from B ---- 4 keys to A ---------- 4 keys to Nothing 
5 fires from D ---- 5 keys to Nothing ---- 5 keys to D
6 fires from A ---- 6 keys to Nothing ---- 6 keys to A

And then there's the Venti... You're right. It's pretty bad.

EDIT: It's occurred to me since writing this that you probably just meant "The Venti has nothing but double/triple mounts"... sorry for the misinterpretation.

Anyway, it's not a serious gameplay issue. It's just something I thought I'd mention, having failed to find the previous threads about it.

[Coruskane]

If you remember back in X3R, all of the ships worked with a 1:1 ratio of weapon slots to weapon models. X3TC added a bunch of unique weapon models that represented multiple installed weapons. Take a look at the Venti, it's even worse than the Elite when it comes to this.

I have no idea about the problem this thread relates to, but the Venti is *not* screwed up.

The slots correspond perfectly. When looking at the weapons bit, bottom left, of your HUD (not the weapons menu) then the top 4 are the slots around the cockpit and the bottom six, in groups of 3 of bottom left and 3 of bottom right, correspond to the two gatling mounts. It works perfectly and very well when installed.

C C
C C
L R
L R
L R

The consequence of it being designed to look correct on your HUD, is that the menu is in a weird order of

C
C
L
L
L
C
C
R
R
R

[Vim Razz]

I just re-checked the Venti in both AP and TC (steam install).


In AP, models and animation align perfectly. Every weapon bay activates the proper gun model that corresponds to it's firing animation.

So I guess we can confirm now that multiple bays can properly activate the same model on dual/triple weapon mounts -- at least in AP.


In TC, alignment is funky:
- Bay 1 is fine: it activates the port tail mount and fires from the same position.
- Bay 2 activates the starboard tail mount, but fires from the port tail position.
- Bay 3 activates the port wing mount, but fires from the starboard tail position.
- Bay 4 activates the starboard wing mount, but fires from the starboard tail position.
- bays 5-10 fire from the wing positions, but activate no weapon models.


So, iirc:

I have no idea about the problem this thread relates to, but the Venti is *not* screwed up.

This seems to be true for AP, but not for TC. At least in the versions of the game that I've got.

[Alan Phipps]

So at least we have established that it is a version-specific ship model issue rather than a game-glitch. At least that is resassuring and can be addressed by a remodeller.