Steam

[Antilogic]

Never had an issue with offline mode myself. Always worked nicely. Sure you didn't have an install or file access problem?

Personally, I never buy disks anymore. Lost plenty and slightly scratched many more.

[Samuel Creshal]

@Sam - offline mode doesn't work reliably enough - at least not in my experience; For example, had an internet-blackout not more than a week ago and steam promptly showed some error message when I clicked 'Ok, start in offline mode' message. Thus, couldn't play anything through it.

I was frequently without internet for some weeks each this year (moving three times in six months ) and never had problems with it. And bugs can usually be fixed by talking to the developers.

and you can't be logged in to the same account at more than one system at any given time

So? Disk-based games allow you only one instance at the same time as well (unless you buy the game twice - same goes for Steam with a second account).

Frankly, it's a lot more restrictive than a great many disc-games.

You mean those who simply lock you out once the install count reaches 3?

[X2-Eliah]

No, I mean the 92% other than those But hey, it's so easy to choose the worst-of-opposition vs. best-dream-scenario of mine, right?

As for offline-mode working for you - well, great. I'm happy for you. I bet people who have good internets are also perfectly happy with Steam. However, that doesn't help me at all when my client is refusing to run the game I own...
And tbh I don't want to call Steam's support over a phone (dead internet, remember?) and file a ticket, because a) not expecting any response beyond 'are you sure it's not on your end? We have data that most of our users don't have such issue, why don't you conform?', and b) - It won't get me any closer to playing the game that's right there, at this moment, on my hard drive.

[Tracker001]

I dislike even the Possibility of recurring charges and being tied to being online to play a game that is not a multiplayer online game .

When X-Terran came out it was only available in the U.S. at first via steam (EU could get it off the shelf).
So to not have to wait for a store bought "not tied to steam" (in this instence) to become available in the U.S. I went ahead and delt with the banking charges todo and internatinal purchase .

A few years back I bought a shoot-em-up first shooter . Loaded it , then to my disapointment !!!!!! I needed to goto steam to activate it .
Packed it up and tossed it into the trash. (Didn't return it because the game was in the no-return clearence bin .)

In my experience disk are more resilient then they are given credit . Or I'm just lucky . I have two Indepent War packages that still load with no problems .
(Come to think of it . Now that I have Terra size HD's I shoudl load them up.)

If a game is Steam or like company only ,the money stays in my pocket for pizza .

[Dantrithor]

As for offline-mode working for you - well, great. I'm happy for you. I bet people who have good internets are also perfectly happy with Steam. However, that doesn't help me at all when my client is refusing to run the game I own...

I'm on a shared wireless router (actually, on several) and my connection quality depends heavily on weather (best signal strength is 10%; worst case: no networks available) and I have never had a problem with starting games in steam after I have lost connection. Even sometimes I've lost connection in the middle of a session and that caused absolutely zero problems, other than trying to start -another- game after exiting the current one would prompt the message to restart in offline mode. For this to work, remember to allow steam to store user data in the computer


Also, someone up there mentioned the forced auto-updates of games. You know you can disable a game auto-updater from within steam, don't you?

I don't say it's the best option, but it's a very good one for people who have not got access to physical stores. It also puts less strain in your mind trying to find that DVD for that game you have not played in two weeks. Plus you can avoid the 3000Gb download every time you reinstall steam by -backing up- the game files before uninstalling it.

[Samuel Creshal]

But hey, it's so easy to choose the worst-of-opposition vs. best-dream-scenario of mine, right?

Says the right one.
Yes, there are games without DRM. But Steam is by far better than you are trying to make it look.

However, that doesn't help me at all when my client is refusing to run the game I own...

Some people just seem to magnetically attract problems when it's conveniently affecting a software they already dislike...

And tbh I don't want to call Steam's support over a phone (dead internet, remember?) and file a ticket, because a) not expecting any response beyond 'are you sure it's not on your end? We have data that most of our users don't have such issue, why don't you conform?', and b) - It won't get me any closer to playing the game that's right there, at this moment, on my hard drive.

So, you never even trying fixing the problem, because it's easier to just whine about Steam being evil and never working and racist?

In my experience disk are more resilient then they are given credit . Or I'm just lucky .

You usually are lucky, until the defective drive eats your disk, the cats shred it or the other way around.
Backups are strongly recommended in any case, no matter whether you got them per disk, floppy, Steam, Impulse or other download shops.

[Tracker001]

Steam or any other DL shops are just another layer to go through that may or may not be part of a problem .

until the defective drive eats your disk

( While its in the drive so steam or other DL site can see you have the disk , When applicable .)

Also I may get hit by a car or earth atmosphere entering astroid or a lighting strike on the line that my internet access is on while playing a steam game. ( The Storm can be 20+ miles away and still do damage)
Or the wife or girl friend get mad and drops computer out of the window.

Bird in the hand is worth two in the bush .

DL sites like steam are all well and good for those who like to use them , but they are not worth my time nor the internet spectrum I pay for.

[felter]

I haven't read what others have said but to me the main point is, why do you like it, is it because you can use it, so what if you couldn't use it would you still think it is great. When I first bought and installed left for dead 2 it took me 3 days to update the game before I could play it, and I bought it from a shop and not steam, if that was you would you think it was great. I once talked to an ozzy guy, he bought a game and due to his download limit it took him 3 months before he could play the game he bought due to steam, if that was you would you still be thinking it is great. If you had to check the box every-time you picked up a game, just to make sure it was not steam activated, and if it was you had to put it back down due to your lack of internet, would you still think it was great.

Anyone that can't see that there is a problem with steam, it's because it doesn't effect them and due to it not effecting them, they don't/can't see any problem with it, this just underlines how selfish some people are. So that's my final question, are you a selfish person.

[amtct]

So that's my final question, are you a selfish person.

Yes ,of course ,indeed ,yep ,si

[Dantrithor]

If you had to check the box every-time you picked up a game, just to make sure it was not steam activated, and if it was you had to put it back down due to your lack of internet, would you still think it was great.

No. If I didn't have any kind of internet nor the ability to log in once a while to update games, I would not consider installing an internet based application. Which, as a matter of fact, was my situation about two years ago.

Anyone that can't see that there is a problem with steam, it's because it doesn't effect them and due to it not effecting them, they don't/can't see any problem with it, this just underlines how selfish some people are. So that's my final question, are you a selfish person.

I honestly fail to see your reasoning here. If the existence of Steam meant the marginalization of people who does not want/is not able to use it, I would understand that paragraph. If the existence of Steam meant the elimination of standard hardware supports, I may endorse your opinion. You're assuming as something causes a problem to a public it's not directed to, it should be hated by everyone. That'd be the same as saying I should consider selfish anyone who purchases software in hardware mediums (CD, DVD, ... ) as they are making the industry keep creating low quality hardware supports which can be easily damaged and most times need to be replaced by paying an extra charge.

Both our logics are wrong. Everything (commercial-wise) is directed to some kind of public: If you're out of that group type, it's usual you won't be able to use it, at least efficiently.

[felter]

I have had trouble answering this.

I honestly fail to see your reasoning here. If the existence of Steam meant the marginalization of people who does not want/is not able to use it, I would understand that paragraph.

Marginalization of the, is not able to use it, yes that's what I'm saying. The does not want, that's their prerogative, but to hate something because you don't want to use it, is wrong.

If the existence of Steam meant the elimination of standard hardware supports, I may endorse your opinion.

Never even thought steam would ever be able to do that.

You're assuming as something causes a problem to a public it's not directed to, it should be hated by everyone. That'd be the same as saying I should consider selfish anyone who purchases software in hardware mediums (CD, DVD, ... ) as they are making the industry keep creating low quality hardware supports which can be easily damaged and most times need to be replaced by paying an extra charge.

I'm not, steam is directed to the gaming community, not the public. It then splits them into 2 groups, the ones that can use it and the ones who can't. While it opens its arms with hugs and kisses to the ones who can use it, it gives the ones who can't the middle finger and tells them to piss off. The selfish part comes in, well as the dictionary definition of it goes: Someone who is selfish only thinks of their own advantage. The OP and their like have their own advantage, they can use it, and as they can use it, they then see it as so should everyone else, as to them everyone has super fast always on broadband, which is why they can not see how someone can hate steam.

[Samuel Creshal]

why do you like it, is it because you can use it, so what if you couldn't use it would you still think it is great.

I don't think it's great. It's just better than most people think.

When I first bought and installed left for dead 2 it took me 3 days to update the game before I could play it, and I bought it from a shop and not steam, if that was you would you think it was great. I once talked to an ozzy guy, he bought a game and due to his download limit it took him 3 months before he could play the game he bought due to steam

Sure, it's a problem for people without a proper broadband connection, but the same goes for every other download portal, streaming portals (like, say, Youtube) and so on – that's not the fault of Valve, that's just the way the internet is.

If you had to check the box every-time you picked up a game, just to make sure it was not steam activated, and if it was you had to put it back down due to your lack of internet, would you still think it was great.

Frankly, Bioware's/EA's latest copy protection is even worse. Mandatory internet activation (including registration with mail address if you want the complete game) and constant disk validation.

So that's my final question, are you a selfish person.

So… I'm selfish because I have a better network connection than you do?



Steam may be evil – but it's a small and calculable evil. When I see a new game in the store, I always have to check online which r******* copy protection system it has now (can I install it twice without having to call tech support and requesting re-activation? Can I play it offline? Do I need to register with my mail address? etc. pp.). With Steam I know the limitations, and they're actually quite small.

[pjknibbs]

I dislike even the Possibility of recurring charges

What recurring charges? Steam is free as in beer, always has been, and I've seen not the slightest hint of a rumour that it will ever be anything else.

[frymaster]

I honestly fail to see your reasoning here. If the existence of Steam meant the marginalization of people who does not want/is not able to use it, I would understand that paragraph.

it kinda does, in that there are many games which require steam as a platform (steamworks), not just as a delivery mechanism. X3TC is one of the few which has both a steamworks and a non-steamworks version.

For multiplayer games, I'd be overjoyed if every single one used steamworks, then playing with my mates would be as easy as clicking on their name and selecting "join server". For single player games, I can see why people would be annoyed.

[thetack]

i like steam since most relises force you to use it i am £500 closer to my new car and as i havnt bought a new game for a while. my 5 year old pc dosnt need changing so thats another £1500 i would have spent,
at the moment i am waiting for rebirth to come out if it needs steam i will probaly not buy another game again as i dont even bother with looking out for new realises anymore and most of the stuff out there is designed for 17 year olds with an atention span of 10 min anyway

can i have a cigar my internets staid in for a whole hour this evening

[Cycrow]

OP = original post.

About pre-purchase.. well, see, at any game store (and even amazon) I can say (through web from or directly) "Okay, i'd like to preorder this game, as I will likely buy it - so you can ship it earlier, when you get it, and I'll pay." That means I can cancel preoders if circumstances change, or anything else happens.

With steam, you have pre-purchase. Which is "Hi, I'm interested in this game, and like to register my intent on getting it in the futur... Oh.. wait. You want me to pay now? Like, months before release? But what if I reconsider? What if I move to a country where it's region-locked out? No? I can't just preorder like on any other store, I must pay now and hope you or the game's publisher don't reconsider about selling it through your store?".

just so you know, with steam, you can cancel preorders for a full refund, as long as you have not started to preload it

also the delay in preorders, ie cant play them until they unlock, even if u get the dvd early, while it might seem annoying, is actually quite an important part of steams copy protection.

as it eliminates 0-day piracy, which is the most damanging kind to a developer

[DeadlyDarkness]

One thing I do like is that more often than not I get decent bargains on stuff I buy off there. I know people say that Valve could shut down the whole network at their discretion but that would be very bad business sense and they would still be open to legal challenges.

My only gripe is you can't get a refund if a product is defective, but then again you can't do that with retail copies anymore. If it doesn't run, tough luck.

[esd]

My only gripe is you can't get a refund if a product is defective, but then again you can't do that with retail copies anymore. If it doesn't run, tough luck.

Sure you can (in the UK), you just need to be aware of what your rights are. If the product is defective, the store owes you a refund or replacement. Doesn't matter if it's software or a sofa, the law is the law.

With Steam the tricky bit would be establishing that the product is defective - I'm also unsure where they are "legally based", so they may not even count as a retailer under the SOGA. Distance Selling Regs more be more applicable.

[X2-Eliah]

"The product" is a permission to use their software. If the software is faulty, then it's nothing you can do - you can only claim problems if your right to access said software (and not ability, but right) is not working.

The reason why most brick and mortar stores do accept trade-backs is because a) it's cheaper not to get into a big fuss over this and just do it, and b) since all brick and mortar stores in the uk are gamestop, they just drop that game's price by 5 pounds and sell as used. Or, heck, just re-seal it and sell as brand new.

[esd]

"The product" is a permission to use their software. If the software is faulty, then it's nothing you can do - you can only claim problems if your right to access said software (and not ability, but right) is not working.

The reason why most brick and mortar stores do accept trade-backs is because a) it's cheaper not to get into a big fuss over this and just do it, and b) since all brick and mortar stores in the uk are gamestop, they just drop that game's price by 5 pounds and sell as used. Or, heck, just re-seal it and sell as brand new.

If you can establish that a game doesn't function as it's reasonably expected to do (it'd have to be quite the mess tho), and it's not because of your setup, that's SOGA - you're entitled to a refund. If the disc is scratched or unreadable, again, SOGA.

This recent Rage thing, for example - a fair few returns could easily fall under SOGA as the PC port simply doesn't correctly function - unless it's Steam only, in which case it may be DSR... depending on the exact wording of the agreement with Valve.

Proving it's not your system isn't easy, but widespread reports of similar problems certainly help.